2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

topic posted Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:01 AM by  Mon
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In a recent thread, someone posted something about an alignment without supplying a source even after we asked for one: 2012.tribe.net/thread/ea3...72a6b519fe8
Let's have a thread about the supposed 2012 alignment, and let's try to back up the claims or research with evidence or links to suggested reading material... My current understanding is that there's no such thing as an alignment om 21-12-2012:

"...there is no planetary alignment in December 2012. As to “alignment with the center of the Milky Way” that is a meaningless phrase. It may sound scientific, but it is devoid of content. To put it bluntly, these claims on the Internet of alignments and catastrophe in December 2012 are lies. If more people checked out these crazy claims, we would all be better off...." 2012news.com/

"....it is just an Internet hoax. There is no alignment with the center of the Galaxy in 2012 or any time. As to the Sun being in the center of the Galaxy, that it impossible; the Sun and solar system will always remain at about 30,000 light years from the galactic center. These stories on the Internet are simply lies, and I am sorry if they have been a problem for you. A lot of the stuff on the Internet is wrong, and you have to learn to distinguish the truth from the lies. One simple test is to ask if any of these claims are made by real scientists, or if they have been reported in newspapers or on TV news. The stories about alignments or disaster striking in 2012 do not pass this test....." www.dailycommonsense.com/2012-...-hoax/

"...According to the U.S. Naval Observatory (the official timekeeper for the United States), the winter solstice in 2012 occurs at 1111 UT on December 21. aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs...asons.html And given the New Age Community's fascination with anything related to 11:11, I would expect them to also assign some huge spiritual significance to the time of the 2012 solstice. I'm not sure what the date of the Mayan calender turn-over is, but if it is 23 Dec 12, then it sounds as if someone shifted the date a couple of days to make it coincide with the solstice and make their pet crackpot idea work out.
As for which Gregorian date this will happen is open to some conjecture. By far the most commonly accepted translation by Mayan scholars is that Mayan date 13.0.0.0.0 correlates to Gregorian date December 21, 2012. This is according to the Goodman-Martinez-Thompson (GMT) correlation constant of 584283. Another less popular correlation constant is 584285, in which Mayan date 13.0.0.0.0 correlates to Dec 23, 2012..." www.bautforum.com/against-m...012-a.html

"...sometimes on "alternative" boards, when they start talking about planetary "alignments", they don't necessarily mean "in an astronomical context"--sometimes they're talking about an astrological context, which is a whole 'nother ball game. In astrology, apparently, you can refer to planets as being in "alignment" without its having anything to do with "being lined up" like the rest of the world uses the term, judging by the number of excited "alternative" threads about "planetary alignment" I've clicked on, only to find some kind of deeply esoteric astrological discussion going on that had nothing to do with the planets in question actually "lining up"...." www.bautforum.com/against-m...post126174
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  • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

    Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:20 AM
    hmm well if the last notion you mentioned is not the case, i would also like my other question on that thread answered if anybody knows the answer: "i don't understand.. what ELSE will sit on this line, between Earth and the centre, and then extending beyond Earth??"
    • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

      Wed, October 14, 2009 - 2:58 AM
      " " As avid stargazers, the ancient Maya were keen to an astrological cycle we call the Precession of the Equinoxes. This is close to a 26,000 year cycle in which Earth transits through each of the 12 signs of the zodiac for about 2152 years each. Each of these astrological ages represents one month of the grand, Cosmic Year. Sumerians, Tibetans, Egyptians, Cherokees, Hopi, and Mayans refer to this same 26,000 year cycle in their mystical belief systems and each have developed calendars based on this great cycle.

      The Maya messengers, reknowned for their architectural, artistic, mathematical and scientific achievements, left a calling card as a series of super-human sized stone monuments and pyramids with precise calendrical computations. Planted with great intention, these dates were left to ensure that future generations would be alerted to the coming end point of this great 26,000 year cycle. A cycle which corresponds also to a 26,000 year relationship of our Sun orbiting Alcyone, the central star of the 7 Sisters Pleiades constellation. According to the Maya, the "future" which lies beyond this end date is literally "a new world age" - "a new creation."

      The 26,000 year cycle of the Homo Sapien's evolution and development is mirrored by the 260-day cycle of human gestation. Collective humanity is right now maturing into the being we have long been encoded to be. As with any labor, it is not the mother, or the baby, who is in charge - it is the primal process of Birth itself unfolding its own destiny. " "

      (taken from this site : www.13moon.com/prophecy%20page.htm)

      seems to make alot of sense.....i don't know how there could be such a huge discrepency....what is so hard to believe about the earth and her solar system making a every-thousands-of-years or so line up with the galactic center? i find it a fascinating and beauitful notion.......sure, there is the thought that "well you can ALWAYS draw a straight line from the center of our galaxy thru earth, etc....but what this is talking about is, on a flat plane.....our solar system is basically passing from "under" the mid-section, to pass thru to be in the "upper" section of what is essentially the "arm" of our galaxy.....the "milky" way that you see when you look up at night.......kind of a cool concept, no matter how you slice it.......

      will it cause some changes here on earth? maybe......
      will it cause a shift in consciousness? HOPEFULLY!! LOL!!! :-))
      • Mon
        Mon
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        Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

        Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:10 PM
        pp: "...what is so hard to believe about the earth and her solar system making a every-thousands-of-years or so line up with the galactic center? i find it a fascinating and beauitful notion......"

        >>> I do too, and I hope there's any truth to it, but from reading the JMJ links, it seems he's talking about a 36 year period with the peak in 1998... so the best part is already behind us?
        • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

          Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:34 PM
          "so the best part is already behind us?"

          Calleman has a different take, including the end date itself.

          www.calleman.com/content/a...nument.htm

          The Tortuguero Monument 6 and the Mayan end date.

          "When I started my independent research on the Mayan calendar late in 1993 not a single inscription from the ancient Maya was actually known which would describe what would happen at its so-called end date. All that was known were the various descriptions of the beginning date of the Long Count, notably in the inscriptions in Palenque, which said that the First Father then “erected the World Tree”. Irrespective of this dearth of information, I started to develop my theory about the nine levels of evolution, the nine underworlds, and the various days and nights that generated their wave movements. I simply assumed that the significant Mayan pyramids had been built in nine steps because they were symbolic of nine levels of creation, each effected by seven days, or seven creation gods. I then found that with such a model an enormous amount of historical facts started to make sense if they were seen as results of cosmic energy shifts. This however could be seen to be true only if the nine levels all ended at the same time, similarly to how some of the Mayan pyramids had a straight back. It thus seemed obvious that the understanding of such energy shifts must have been the basis of the prophetic tradition of the Maya. This was of course not how traditional Mayanism saw it, which essentially treated the calendar and the various deities associated with it as superstitions. Yet, I came from a different scientific tradition, and was primarily interested in if the Mayan time cycles and deities were true reflections of reality. In the beginning of my scientific carreer in the seventies I had thus been mentored by a member of the Nobel committes in Stockholm and had then at least indirectly seen how science operates from what arguably is its highest level. This meant among other things zero tolerance for making up theories from “beliefs” without empirical facts to back them up and constant emphasis on experimental reality checks. At least professionally this has remained my mind set ever since and the fact that some people believe that Jesus was born on December 25 or that the Mayan calendar ends on December 21 does not constitute proof for me that this is actually the case.

          The idea that there were as many as nine Underworlds was for a long time criticized by some who said that there was only one cycle of a longer duration in the Mayan calendar system, namely the 5,125 year Long Count. Yet, already then there were some indications that the Maya had recognized nine steps of evolution. It was for instance known that the Long Count was sometimes referred to as ruled by the Six-Sky-Lord, indicating that it was the sixth level, and that there were names for time periods beginning with that of the first of the nine levels, the hablatun. Based on these indications of nine levels I proposed my theory since it could be empirically substantiated from human history even though some thought that it was not orthodox enough. Somewhat later, in 1996, Mayanists however started to decipher Monument 6 in Tortuguero, only some 50 kilometers west of Palenque, which would further strengthen my model of nine levels of evolution. For the first time an inscription was found that seemed to refer to what would happen at the end date at least from the perspective of a Mayan king around AD 670.


          More broadly this inscription only gained attention in 2006 and its final text according to David Stuart, who is an expert on Mayan glyphs, reads essentially like this: Tzuhtz-(a)j-oom u(y)-uxlajuun pik (ta) Chan Ajaw ux(-te’) Uniiw. Uht-oom ? Y-em(al)?? Bolon Yookte’ K’uh ta?
          or translated to English: “The Thirteenth ‘Bak’tun” will be finished (on) Four Ajaw, the Third of Uniiw (K’ank’in). ? will occur. (It will be) the descent(??) of the Nine Support? God(s) to the ?. "

          As is common with such ancient inscriptions they may be difficult to read partly because the glyphs are effaced (which is the case here) and partly because the meanings of the glyphs are not unambiguous. The critical part from our perspective is the deities (or deity) called Bolon Yookte, who at the end date would “descend.” To understand how to interpret this I think it is important to know two things about ancient Mayan deities. The first is that they were not as personalized as for instance Roman or Nordic deities, who were perceived to act more or less as individuals. A Mayan (or Aztec) deity instead typically symbolized a cosmic force associated with a time period and the mythologies of these peoples really describe fairly high level impersonal cosmic relationships. Hence, we know how the ancient day-signs were carried by daybearers, deities that were associated with particular days. Time periods, gods and day-signs were thus more or less interchangeable and it depended on the context how they would be expressed. The second thing to know is that these deities could easily split into several different deities and vice versa depending on whether the context called for the whole or its parts to be expressed. This is almost certainly the case with Bolon Yookte, which can be seen as a whole deity with nine parts or as nine parts constituting a whole. Bolon Yookte is at the same time a whole and its nine parts because Mayan cosmology is essentially holistic and looks upon everything in creation as connected.

          John Major Jenkins in 2006 wrote an important and interesting article about the Bolon Yookte: Comments on the 2012 text on Tortuguero Monument 6 and Bolon Yookte Ku, edj.net/mc2012/bolon-yokte.html, where he summarizes epigraphic information about this deity called Bolon Yookte, which according to the abovementioned inscription will descend at the Mayan end date. Among other things he cites an article by Gillespie and Joyce that states that Bolon Yookte was called “the God of the Nine Steps” and also that this was a deity that was present already at the beginning of creation as can be seen from the famous Vase of the Seven Lords. He also cites Eberl and Prager, who said that the Bolon Yookte was associated with the underworld, wars and conflict. Really what this is telling us is that the structure of Nine Steps of evolution, Nine Underworlds, has existed from the very beginning of creation, what we in modern terminology would call the Big Bang. The Tortuguero Monument 6, and Jenkins study of their meaning, thus provides a perfect verification of the theory I proposed fifteen years ago. The Bolon Yookte are the Nine levels of evolution carried out by the nine underworlds. These nine Underworlds are then obviously also associated with the Seven Lords of Creation (the seven DAYS) as can be seen from the famous Mayan vase. Moreover, as we know from history, all of these Underworlds are associated with conflicts and wars, since shifts in cosmic energies generate shifting balances of power and as a result, warfare. To me, the relationships between these Mayan deities provide a model of evolution that has been verified by massive empirical evidence. Because of this connection to reality this is crucial information for humanity at the present time and not mere mythical relationships.

          What this inscription means is that on the end date there is not just one cosmic power that will manifest, but Nine and that these were symbolized by a Nine-Step pyramid that was Bolon Yookte – The God of Nine Steps. It is also clear from Jenkins’ article that Bolon Yookte was associated with the World Tree, which especially my forthcoming book The Purposeful Universe will demonstrate as the source of all creation – not as a myth, but as a reality. In light of the Tortuguero monument I feel the model of Nine Underworlds and Thirteen Heavens can only be denied by someone, who completely ignores not only the actual Mayan inscriptions, but also the massive empirical evidence of how the Mayan calendar system is connected to reality. If instead this body of evidence is recognized it is however easy to see how in their mythology the Maya would interchange deities, time periods and cosmic energies in a way that can now help us make sense of evolution and how it has played out in biological and historical reality.

          The Bolon Yookte, the Nine-step God with its Nine Underworlds, as this is symbolized by the Pyramid of the Jaguar in Tikal. The Nine Underworlds will all be completed, “the Bolon Yookte will descend”, at the same time and to symbolize this synchronistic event the pyramid has a straight back. Photograph by the author.

          The verification from the Tortuguero monument that the ancient Maya looked upon the end of creation as the simultaneous descent of Nine different deities, or manifestation of nine cosmic forces, is however very timely as we are now on the eighth level of evolution and soon about to climb up one step to the ninth level, the Universal Underworld. It is not an exaggeration to say that for many people now their future will directly depend on knowing exactly how the energies of these nine levels will be playing out. Today it is thus crucial to know about this basic structure of evolution, Nine Underworlds and Thirteen Heavens, and the exact timing of activation of the different wave movements of creation. That nine deities will descend (nine cosmic forces manifest) simultaneously at the end date is thus no longer an unorthodox idea, but instead the only meaningful explanation that can be given to Tortuguero monument 6. What this means is also that the Bolon Yookte mentioned at the Tortuguero monument is not about a single event occurring only at a specific date. It is instead about nine different wave movements, each generated by the Seven Lords of Creation (the seven days in each Underworld) going back to the beginning of the universe (the Big Bang) when, as Jenkins also points out, Bolon Yookte was already present. Thus, any viable theory about the meaning of the Mayan calendar needs to be able to account for such long term evolutionary processes, spanning up to 16.4 billion years. As a consequence, serious researchers need to take their focus off from what might happen on a single day, the end date, since this can only be understood in a much larger context. From this perspective it is thus a problem that especially many American “experts on 2012”, along the lines of the upcoming Hollywood movie 2012, have committed themselves to some physical event that they associate with the singular December 21, 2012 date, such as a pole shift, a galactic alignment, a volcanic eruption, an asteroid impact, a solar flare or some other (usually not very well-founded) idea of what may happen on this particular day. Given the total unreasonableness of such ideas, especially in light of the Tortuguero monument, is it not time that they instead start considering an evolutionary model for the Mayan calendar that is consistent with this monument? “2012” has for too long been a playground for pseudo-science and the many unfounded “singular day” ideas blur the fact that the end scenario of the Mayan calendar is really about a socio-economic transformation resulting from processes influencing human consciousness. It is thus about the human beings themselves and how we co-create the birth of a new world and not about any geological or astronomical event that we only would be observers of anyway.

          There is of course a reason that, as I pointed out before, no one advocating the October 28, 2011 end date has ever advocated or been lured into advocating that this date would be “the end of the world.” This is that this date emanates organically from an evolutionary process and is not associated with any real or purported physical or astronomical event. It is simply the day when the universe after nine major quantum steps, starting with the beginning of the universe, attains its highest energy state and there is no logical reason that this would mean the end of the world. It is just an evolutionary completion point when Bolon Yookte fully descends. When it comes to the many events that have been purported to be associated with the singular December 21, 2012 date on the other hand it is not surprising that they invite speculations about the end of the world. If you for instance propose that this end date is about a pole shift or a giant burst of gamma rays from the galactic center, why should people not believe that this could be the end of the world? To propose physical events is like asking for the mainstream media to create fear and hopelessness around the real transformation that is about to occur.

          I thus believe it will be people at large that will suffer most from the neglect of the understanding we may gain from the ancient Maya, which as we have seen speaks about the fulfilment of a composite of nine evolutionary forces, the Bolon Yookte Ku, and not what happens on a single day. Because of all the confusing information focusing on December 21, 2012 that is already out there I feel however that people will start to align with the true end date of October 28, 2011, not because they realize that the energetic end date logically must be 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13.13 13 Ajaw or that the 4 Ajaw end date was the result of politics much like the placing of the birth of Jesus at December 25 by the Christian Church. People are instead likely to come to accept the October 28, 2011 date in practice simply because they will not be able to deny the actual wave movement of energies that they themselves are experiencing, especially in the socio-economic realm. Yet, for those seeking to consciously co-create the birth of a new world a knowledge of how the cosmic energies lead up to the October 28, 2011 date will be instrumental, simply because without it no understanding of how the new world will be born, and how this is timed, will be possible. Hence, the activation of these energies, and their preparatory phases in the Galactic and Universal Underworlds will, as always, take place according to a very precise relative timing until the Bolon Yookte, the nine underworlds, will “descend”, manifest fully, and create the foundation for a millennium of peace – the end of the Shift of the Ages.

          Seattle, August 19, 2009 (6 Ajaw)
          Carl Johan Calleman"
          • Mon
            Mon
            offline 8

            Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

            Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:51 PM

            This is an interesting bit from Steven's post:

            "...From this perspective it is thus a problem that especially many American “experts on 2012”, along the lines of the upcoming Hollywood movie 2012, have committed themselves to some physical event that they associate with the singular December 21, 2012 date, such as a pole shift, a galactic alignment, a volcanic eruption, an asteroid impact, a solar flare or some other (usually not very well-founded) idea of what may happen on this particular day. Given the total unreasonableness of such ideas, especially in light of the Tortuguero monument, is it not time that they instead start considering an evolutionary model for the Mayan calendar that is consistent with this monument? “2012” has for too long been a playground for pseudo-science and the many unfounded “singular day” ideas blur the fact that the end scenario of the Mayan calendar is really about a socio-economic transformation resulting from processes influencing human consciousness. It is thus about the human beings themselves and how we co-create the birth of a new world and not about any geological or astronomical event that we only would be observers of anyway...." www.calleman.com/content/a...nument.htm
        • Mon
          Mon
          offline 8

          Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

          Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:35 PM
          "...In reality, if you choose to believe in such a thing, the galactic alignment peaked in 1998-1999, and ended in 2001. This is the 1999 leading into the fearful Y2K hoax and September 2001, the time of the even more fearful 911. I smell a cover-up. On the scientific side, NASA has put out a press release warning people not to be fooled by such 2012 alignment misinformation...."

          "...For the scientifically and left-brain inclined, the Sun never directly eclipses or aligns with the Galactic Center and the dark rift does not reach the ecliptic, the visual path of our Sun. In layman’s terms, the Sun never enters the dark rift or eclipses the Galactic Center, ever, ever, ever...."
          www.geocities.com/heartystar/2012

          >>> So it seems there are some hostilities between different authors as to the supposed 2012 alignments...
      • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

        Wed, October 14, 2009 - 10:43 PM
        oh riiiiight a flat plane thanks for that little flower, i forgot that someone actually had posted a link to a video in that last thread delineating that alignment or thereabouts.. it has just never made sense to me whenever someone tries to explain it :/
        • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

          Wed, October 14, 2009 - 10:52 PM
          i can't do this; i feel so stupid but it's really frustrating me that i don't understand.. there's like some kind of wall between me and this idea i don't get it. i'm going to google "2012 for dummies" now :'(
  • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

    Wed, October 14, 2009 - 5:11 PM
    www.lunarplanner.com/HolyCross.html

    If you read through the entire text, you'll find that a figurative line that runs through the poles of the Earth out into space make what they call the "Holy Cross" as the precession of the rising sun processes through the different constellation each age... If you'll notice the "holy Cross" is the same symbol that the Hopi Indians say is the symbol of their people and the exact same symbol of the Knights Templars and being a "cross" and the "suns" precession as it rises in the sky during the equinoxes shows that Religion is based on these same precessions.

    The Maya tracked a 26,000 cycle that mirrored this precession cycle.

    It is also 26,000 from the center of our galaxy to our planet Earth. (Coincidence?)

    The solar system that we live in also moves up and down through the actual center of the galaxies equator plane BUT, Hoopes has brought to our attention in a post from last year sometime and shown that our solar system is NOT in the equator plane of our galaxy and this event happens over millions of years and we are on the rise up. We've already gone through the plane several millions of years ago and are still on the way up going into the crest of the movement up and away from the galactic plane...

    The thing that 2012'ers talk about in the "alignment" is on that day of the equinox, where the sun will rise when you look at it coming up on that faithful day... It will appear to be rising from the center of the Milky Way Galaxy on that day. In a thousand years, it will seem like the sun is rising in a different part of the sky on that day... This is the only significance in that we can see it rising in the sky at a certain location and it looks as if it was rising from the center of our Milky Way... This is the extent that the Maya took it, but Egyptians took it way beyond that point and built their monuments along with the precessions and they showed that eventually the precession would circle back around too but they along with Christianity marked the "holy Cross" and it has been a sacred symbol ever since! Check out link to visit the "Holy Cross" caused by Earth's Processional Cycle.

    www.lunarplanner.com/HolyCross.html
    • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

      Wed, October 14, 2009 - 7:31 PM
      As Sketchy and difficult to visualize or clearly verify what the exact parameters of the 2012 alignment Are, we At Least can be fairly Certain that ONE aspect appears to be Verified........ and That is the Precession of the Equinoxes bringing the Earth's Axis into closest Tilt Angle Towards the Galactic Center. This is Significant because the Earth's Vortexual flow is Basic-basic, Energetically speaking, .... and Energy is the foundation of all matter, and Consciousness is the basis of energy. The Galaxy is a Vast Unified Field-of-Energy Flow...... the Greatest such flow known in the universe of phenomenon....... and there is Consciousness where there is Coherence, especially on such a Cosmic scale.

      A huge download of Galactic Coherence is inevitable when the Earth's spin coherence makes a grand cross alignment with the Galaxy. ....And this is Sufficient cause for us to Envision Transformations beyond the dreary "business as usual" that those loyal to present conditions wish to adhere to, and go so far as to Actively promote in places intended for Awakening & acceleration (such as Year 2012 tribe)
      • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

        Thu, October 15, 2009 - 4:12 AM
        I thnk the argument between Callerman and John Major Jenkins as to whether 2012 is about a 26,000 year galactic alignment, or as Callerman more believes, part of an internal time sequence playing out based around there calendar that preordains changes in life on earth is misdirected and wasted.

        Both, or no doubt true. The whole basis of astrology is that the out events of the planets and the cosmos mirrors the inner cycles of life. There is no separation between the outer and the inner, no duality.

        Both of them are focused on opposite sides of the picture, but what is important is the whole picture.

        And that is my belief also when it comes to the timing alignment, we are talking about the end of both a 5,200 year, and 26,000 year cycle an
        Jenkins says we should take an orb of 36 years, Callerman emphasis the Oct 2011 date.

        but in reality much of there work is speculation based on there interpretation of Mayan mythology and archaeology. Its a feature of our society that we often want precise scientific detail yet miss the broader whole picture.

        In my mind 2012 is the centre of a very big curve, the intense changes we are probably noticing as much as 30 years into that curve and 30 years out, but in a wider picture no doubt 200 years in and 200 years out, but with 2012 as the centre point, the vortex in that grand curve.

        In conventional astrology astrologers will give an orb of around 3 or 4 years of influence of a major pluto transit which has a cycle of 279 years i think it is.

        So when you get to changes as vast as 5,200 years and 26,000 years then obviously a much broader time period of change would make sense.

        And history tells us that its rare civilizations change overnight. Seeds are often laid well before change and take many decades to unravel.

        With this we are talking about a major change on a global scale, so to focus on specific details as overly important seems to miss the wider picture to me.

        And lastly, you have to relate this to changes that are going on in the real world with globalisation, climate change, resource shortage, changes in science that work with the organic, the internet, coming together of global cultures etc, re-embracing the feminine, returning to some concepts of the earth cultures whilst integrating the logical and scientific developments of the last few thousand years, many of these changes have been going on already for decades, and do seem to be approaching a climax, but there resolution to me, is clearly going to pan out decades after the 2012 turning point.

        Its evident this has been building up for many decades and its full resolution will pan out decades after 2012, but 2012 seems to me to be a pretty accurate centre point in those HUGE changes.
  • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

    Thu, October 15, 2009 - 7:59 AM
    Now having to do with the "placement" of our solar system and the placement of the Earth within the orbit of our Sun, these vary along with the precession of the age through what we can see in the sky but during our Eaths orbit around the Sun, it progresses in a way that moves further awy from the Sun at times and closer in at times. We are moving away from our Sun in this cycle and this is usually when our planet goes into an ice age... We are heading in the direction of an iceage but with global warming, man has deturred this event. But to what extent can man continue this event from happening? Even now, global warming is starting to look like global cooling because of the warming trend melting so much ice and so much moisture in the atmosphere that the sun isn't warming the planet anymore but actually cooling it now... So what happens if we go into a global "deep freeze"? Just the question that nobody's asking because this IS where we are headed!
    • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

      Thu, October 15, 2009 - 8:08 AM
      "So what happens if we go into a global "deep freeze"? Just the question that nobody's asking because this IS where we are headed!"


      There is a lot of discussion and controversy over exactly where we are headed. This is probably because we really don't know, and can't bear that.
      • Re: 2012 celestial alignment: Yes or No?

        Fri, October 16, 2009 - 8:36 PM
        yes, and it will be mostly mushrooms growing for a while afterwards, all the sky will be covered with some dusty cloudy stuff and a bright star will be seen breaking through, but it will be blue. The sun will be invisible......having gone out. And the Earth will be heated from inside because it's hollow, and old vents unused for millenia will be unsealed to let the hot air out.

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