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Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

topic posted Fri, November 11, 2011 - 2:08 PM by 
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I have lately been getting into some of the better ghost hunting documentaries on television. "Paranormal Witness" is one of the more fascinating ones. These productions are all liberally sprinkled with actual eyewitness interviews - often multiple witnesses simultaneously reporting the same bizarre and terrifying events - and the 3 part episode (on Youtube) linked below is outstanding because of the police officer and prison warden interviews along with the "civilian" interviews. Rain spontaneously erupting in mid air in a home and raining upside down and horizontally are just some of what is in store for you here. The schlocky and Halloweenish production values of these shows is obnoxious, but the interviews are so riveting that I can easily overlook all that. The working titles in Youtube are "S1E06 1/3, 2/3, and 3/3. The links will take you straight to each episode at the top of the page. Warning - not for those who freak easily.

www.youtube.com/watch

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www.youtube.com/watch
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  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

    Mon, November 14, 2011 - 2:20 PM
    www.youtube.com/watch

    Here is the first episode of yet another superb series of documentaries on the paranormal - the Bio Channel's "My Ghost Story." The strength of this series is its camera footage - especially video, and the first episode is narrated by some engineers who were certainly not prone to fantasy or illogic and who caught some very remarkable footage on video surveillance cameras.
    Again, I want to reiterate that anyone pretending to be truly invested in the paranormal debate cannot exclude from discussion these documentaries which are really ground breaking, immensely important, and just plain informative. After watching a bunch of these I feel like I now have a nuts and bolts idea of what to do when the spirits show up in a rowdy mood.

    The Youtube master page for "My Ghost Story."

    www.youtube.com/results
    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

      Mon, November 14, 2011 - 7:33 PM
      >"These productions are all liberally sprinkled with actual eyewitness interviews - "

      No, these productions are literally sprinkled with people who've been paid or renumerated to say something that's highly questionable in order to bump the ratings.

      Quid pro quo I think is the term.

      Glad to see your gullibility hasn't subsided insofar as shabby ideas go..
      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

        Tue, November 15, 2011 - 9:54 AM
        Let me see, Muffy - the policemen and prison warden were lying. So many liars - so few Muffies in this world - thankfully.
        • "The Calling'

          Tue, November 15, 2011 - 10:03 AM
          "The Calling" below might be of special interest to people who demand that scientific procedures and controls be used always. In this case, a "gifted" housewife who is seeing all sorts of things attracts the attention of a retired NASA researcher into the paranormal.He and his assistant resort to researching local and very obscure historical records and come up with some astounding correlations. The 5 part episode is listed in correct order below.

          www.youtube.com/watch

          www.youtube.com/watch

          www.youtube.com/watch

          www.youtube.com/watch

          www.youtube.com/watch
          • A Haunting Georgia"

            Tue, November 15, 2011 - 10:12 AM
            Of particular interest to Tribe regulars might be the episode called "A Haunting In Georgia" (link below) which has what is to me a pretty hilarious subplot concerning a paranormal theorist brought in to help with the haunting and whose idea that stray EMF's create hallucinations in the mind and hence paranormal illusions is severely tested by what he sees in the tests he devises for the little girl having the encounters. When it becomes obvious that the little girl having the experiences is clearly not delusional, the scientist sort of sputters to a stop and then falls back on an in between position that epitomizes to me the denial of the modern paranormal rationalist movement.

            www.youtube.com/results
            (all 9 episodes are listed in order on this link)



            Here is Wiki's synopsis:
            "The family contacts William G. Roll, a parapsychologist. Dr. Roll claims that his instruments indicate an unusually high concentration of positive ions in the house, and his research reveals that the house lies near a fault line; an earthquake has created a magnetic field in the area. He theorizes that the haunting is a result of hallucinations caused by the ions creating minor interference with the family's brain function. Roll's claims purport to be more of a scientific explanation than is usually offered in episodes of the series.

            However, further research reveals that a kindly old man named Gordy used to serve as caretaker for the property, and that a man named Lon (which Heidi suppposedly misheard as "Khan") once lost his hand in an accident nearby; photos of both men supposedly match Heidi's descriptions, even though they both had died decades before Heidi was even born. In light of these developments, Dr. Roll amends his theory, and claims that the family, especially Heidi, is genetically predisposed toward psychic abilities that allow her to detect "place memories", energy left behind by past events and people that have been "recorded" into the environment. However, Dr. Roll maintains that these are natural conditions, and are neither dangerous nor paranormal in nature."
      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

        Wed, November 16, 2011 - 6:31 AM
        Oops! "renumerated"?

        I believe you meant remunerated!
        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

          Wed, November 16, 2011 - 10:08 AM
          You have to cut the trolls some slack. They put in long hours manning the nasty desk here.
          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

            Wed, November 16, 2011 - 7:57 PM
            Heehee!
            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

              Thu, November 17, 2011 - 3:19 PM
              “Hell House” is a particularly appropo tale for these trolls who remind me very much of the demonic entity in this episode. Were we but able to exorcise them from Tribe as well.

              www.youtube.com/watch

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              www.youtube.com/watch
              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                Fri, November 18, 2011 - 10:45 PM
                This is probably the hairiest of the “Paranormal Witness” series – a family describes the amazing level of destruction perpetrated on their home by a demonic poltergeist. The damage was spectacular and tre creepy, and the interviewees look truly freaked out. There are still photos too of the beast showing his ass through the hyperdimension. Everybody on that block fled their homes never to return. Can't say as I blame them.

                www.youtube.com/watch

                www.youtube.com/watch

                www.youtube.com/watch
                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                  Sun, November 20, 2011 - 12:08 AM
                  Nasty tricks of the mind, with some help...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                    Sun, November 20, 2011 - 10:11 AM
                    Fortunately, the dramas themselves mock such arrogant simplicity. Guys like you have so walled yourselves into a corner and your pride has so encumbered you that you are stuck as if in tar. If you ever wake up I hope there is someone around to pick up your pieces and put you back together again because it is likely going to be ugly.
                    I had an uncle who was kind of an obstinate but clever bonehead like yourself. The first time he encountered poltergeist activity my father's ranch he had a sort of nervous breakdown. His wife was there to nourish him through his convalescence which took months.
                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                      Sun, November 20, 2011 - 11:18 AM
                      I have to agree and feel incredibly sad for these people.
                      The paranormal is not the only stumbling block for them as there are many.
                      Usually when you find someone who is in violent denial on one matter, there are other more intimate matters that are also blocked.
                      Most of the more mundane Psycologists try and relate ET abduction with child abuse and although sometimes this can end up being the case, it is not always. The deniers cling to those isolated cases as if it relates to all, because the alternative is much more frightening to them.
                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                        Sun, November 20, 2011 - 12:04 PM
                        "Usually when you find someone who is in violent denial..."

                        Violent denial of a sadistic boyfriend? Acquaintances who can't resist teasing? Credulous people advertise their vulnerability. It's hard for some people to resist taking advantage of that, especially when it's to their benefit.
                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                        Mon, November 21, 2011 - 9:34 AM
                        ?"Most of the more mundane Psycologists try and relate ET abduction with child abuse and although sometimes this can end up being the case, it is not always. The deniers cling to those isolated cases as if it relates to all, because the alternative is much more frightening to them. "

                        And what of the 'less mundane' psychologists? Are they compartmentalized as such because their 'professional' assessments agree more with a world view which you subscribe to?
                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                          Mon, November 21, 2011 - 11:43 AM
                          The answer to that is quite often.
                          Not always, but it's sort of being black in your southern states. being able to do your job becomes more of an effort. You have to perform better.
                          Mostly, the behaviour of those in acedemic position will behave in an imature way that usually denegrades themselves. It's unfortunate as these are the same group of people who have been isolating groups since the dawn of time. Another group that was isolated in the last century in a big way, thanks to Adolph Hitler that that cenario has now changed, was the denegration of Jews. Antisemitism is now pretty much outlawed throughout the world, but in the early decades of the twentieth century, they were considered as vermin and not just in Germany.
                          There have been women's rights, black rights, gay rights. All have been ridiculed in the ways that both you puss and hoopes have done so with anyone who steps beyond your little boxes.
                          As far as some names, we have John Mach, David Jacobs, Mary Rodwell. All are well qualified and have been treeted pretty badly by some academics.
                          Mary was seen in one instance in the documentary "my mum talks to aliens " to have the childish rantings of one idiot at the University of Canberra who obviously was searching for the approval of his teenage students.

                          And as far as the world view is concerned, when I started talking about this and other stuff, like the end of the world we know by overpopulation, the world view was that this planet could easily handle thirty billion and still have room to move and damn the environment, who needs it anyway.
                          The world view is changing because people are coming to realise on many levels that their old perceptions were tainted by fear of losing the world of their childhood and that that world is truly gone. The world of Orwells 1984 is now a reality and it was brought into being by those we expected to protect us from that.
                          All the old institutions and their practices of child theft and abuse, the Catholic and Anglican Churches, Barnardos, The British and Australian Governments to start a list that extends too far to continue. Needless to say, the taunts that are above this post have been heard before many times and some of the responses to people who find themselves as advocates by the general public are reminiscent of the early years of Nazi Germany.
                          Are they compartmentalised? the answer in short, is yes.
                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                      Sun, November 20, 2011 - 12:00 PM
                      Irrational fear can be a bummer.

                      This show is a dramatic (as in entertainment) embellishment of prosaic reality. Consider the *untold* parts of the story. The parts that outsiders--not insiders--can see.
                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                        Sun, November 20, 2011 - 2:40 PM
                        www.youtube.com/watch

                        Especially for Hoopes - a fundamentalist in all things.
                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                          Sun, November 20, 2011 - 6:51 PM
                          I can see how you see Hoopes as such, but I don't!
                          Bryan reduced to a babbler.wmv
                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                            Sun, November 20, 2011 - 8:00 PM
                            My only real motive here is to get Hoopes and his ilk to actually take in some new information about the paranormal rather than just allow fact riggers like Randi to supply them with terrible examples. That he has so lamely replied just tells me it is getting to him. Suddenly all the world's a liar except for Hoopes.
                            There is nothing of absolute "proof" here though juries often come to decisions based on less than perfect evidence and they certainly take in evidence based purely on personal testimony. What is notable here is that this is yet another example of his ever fixed intransigence. He doesn't even dare flirt with the idea that he may be wrong about a certain subject when high quality information presents itself. A reasonable man would say after watching this huge body of paranormal data that has accumulated during the last few years that the subject certainly is not "closed" yet to people like Hoopes it is forever closed no matter what evidence is presented. He regards the 911 insider job evidence with equal carelessness. He is a man of foregone conclusions, and certainly one of the most intellectually dishonest people I have ever encountered.
                            But enough of this character. Let the show go on:

                            "Murder In Room 12" from the series The Haunted - More liars en masse. They are everywhere. It is getting to where you can't trust anyone these days.

                            www.youtube.com/watch

                            www.youtube.com/watch

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                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                              Sun, November 20, 2011 - 8:51 PM
                              "Suddenly all the world's a liar except for Hoopes."

                              I don't see most of these people as liars. Rather, they're caught up in erroneous perceptions and experiences that they mistakenly interpret. I don't doubt for a minute that unexplained persistent scratching on the window can scare the bejeezus out of someone until they realize it's just a branch being blown by the wind. Claiming it's a ghost before the actual explanation is known isn't lying, it's just inadvertently getting it wrong.

                              One definition of paranormal is something that hasn't yet been recognized as normal. Discovering the real explanation for what scared the shit out of someone usually results in shame and embarassment, followed in the best cases by self-deprecating humor. As in when the "monster" turns out to be the family cat.

                              A polyergeist is a practical joke in which the jokester's identity remains unknown.


                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                Tue, November 22, 2011 - 10:59 PM
                                So basically, your saying these people are not liars, they're half witts?

                                I, personally am neither. I have had experiences that cannot be explained by the moon, Venus, a tree branch, cat, dog, local pervert climbing in through the window or any other crappy little bullshit story you would try to present.
                                I have also had very mundane experiences that I was able to explain. Those are the many experiences that no one is going to hear about because they are not worth telling. The others are.
                                I watched a video taken by someone who believed when seeing objects flash across the sky, that he was observing a flotilla of alien craft. very convincing stuff. I showed this video to several experts in a variety of fields until one said "Yes. I know this phenomena"
                                He then proceeded to give a logical and acceptable natural explanation. I listened and now consider the event to be no less awe inspiring, but understandable.

                                Neither you nor Puss debate from an adult professional perspective. As I have pointed out before, it is almost like debating with a twelve year old.

                                Do not put anyone down as if they are less than yourself, that action only serves to make you look less worthy of intelligent debate. If you don't understand something, say so. If you DO KNOW exactly how something occurs, then explain how.
                                BUT PLEASE show a little respect for those who share this space with you and write as if you are writing to equals.
                                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                  Wed, November 23, 2011 - 10:58 AM
                                  "So basically, your saying these people are not liars, they're half witts?"

                                  Nope. Not at all.

                                  I'm not implying in any way that people who are susceptible to significant errors of perception and interpretation are in any way intellectually disabled. I just think they're intellectually lazy. Whether they're stupid or not depends on how you define stupidity. Extremely intelligent people make incredibly stupid mistakes all the time.

                                  "I, personally am neither. I have had experiences that cannot be explained by the moon, Venus, a tree branch, cat, dog, local pervert climbing in through the window or any other crappy little bullshit story you would try to present."

                                  I doubt it. Just because you don't accept those explanations don't mean that these things cannot be explained. If you want to be entitled to explain things as due to "paranormal" or "extraterrestrial" activity, you'll have to be tolerant of others who offer alternative explanations that don't invoke those erroneous perceptions. Most "paranormal" things that are claimed to be "unexplained" aren't unexplained at all. Rather the explainers are trying to persuade others of supernatural explanations that are ultimately faith-based in nature.

                                  "I watched a video taken by someone who believed when seeing objects flash across the sky, that he was observing a flotilla of alien craft. very convincing stuff."

                                  Your interpretation of it is as "very convincing" is highly subjective. What was "very convincing" to you at first sight obviously didn't have that quality for you after a persuasive alternative explanation. You admit to having made errors in perception on at least one occasion, yet you seem unwilling to consider your own ignorance, credulity, gullibility, and wishful thinking as a viable explanation for your own response to other such phenomena.

                                  Solari is another who has repeatedly shown his willingness to entertain spurious data and interpretations (check out the 9/11 threads, for example), yet seems unwilling to consider the possibility that his credulous interpretations of "ghost" accounts--especially their presentation in what are obviously heavily edited, manipulative, made-for-entertainment-and-profit-purposes TV programs--are erroneous. I think there is some tremendous irony there.

                                  "Neither you nor Puss debate from an adult professional perspective. As I have pointed out before, it is almost like debating with a twelve year old."

                                  What would you consider to be "an adult professional perspective"? Why in the world would you consider that to be the appropriate protocol for an informal discussion forum using social media? (Especially one in which other people are routinely "unprofessional"?) Don't you see that, by writing what you just did, that you are the one who is being condescending and insulting here? Another tremendous irony.

                                  "Do not put anyone down as if they are less than yourself, that action only serves to make you look less worthy of intelligent debate."

                                  Practice what you preach before you start lecturing, Gerard.

                                  "If you DO KNOW exactly how something occurs, then explain how."

                                  If you'd been paying attention, you'd see that that is exactly what I have been doing. Explaining errors of perception and interpretation.

                                  "PLEASE show a little respect for those who share this space with you and write as if you are writing to equals."

                                  Why should I or TMP be held to a standard different from what other participants are held to? Why aren't you lecturing Solari? Celestine? It's hard to feel much respect for hypocrisy.
                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                    Wed, November 23, 2011 - 11:39 AM
                                    Firstly, let's go to the last.
                                    As I have said to others on other occasions, none of us have the high ground and I have pointed out these personality issues with others.
                                    As I have also pointed out in other times, extraordinary events that I personally have experienced have been investigated thoroughly and I have tried (as we all can do to the best of our ability) to be as honest and as factual in my presentation of events as I could. Embellishment helps no one.
                                    The idea being that if you present the story with as much detail and clarity as you can, then when another such incident occurs elsewhere in the world, then the two can be compared.
                                    I have a friend who lives 200kilometres away. He has become a friend because of a common incident that reoccurs every year or two. We both have a dream of being taken and when we wake there is a small scoop mark on our leg. When one has this experience, he rings the other to confirm if it has occurred with them and all but once, it has. The last time he got done, I didn't.
                                    We Skype each other about twice a year and usually nowhere near when these incidents happen. It's strange and can't be explained by any mundane way.
                                    You started by inferring these people were liars, then you suggested they were not quite all there, in other words, half witts. You then said that that was not the case, they were lazy and in a stroke of GW Bush-ism, Stupid, depending on how you define stupid.

                                    This is what I mean by not being constructive Hoopes.
                                    Your "possible explanations" for these events is to denegrade the experiencer. If you wish to scrape back any credibility you had, you will listen to the person's story and look at it from the first person viewpoint. In other words, look at it as if you were the experiencer and explain it from that point of view.
                                    Answer your accusations of yourself.
                                    Are you a liar? Is this tale you are telling to yourself what actually happened. When you answer arrogantly, I am not a liar, then the incident happened as you have said.
                                    Are you a half witt?
                                    Check your bedroom wall and see the number of degrees you have, this should answer that for you.
                                    Are you intellectually lazy?
                                    Well, this one unfortunately is open to debate.
                                    Are you stupid?

                                    When all that is left is the written story of the experience and it is as true as can be, then use your intellect to explain the incident. You have already personalised the incident and discounted that you need medication or re-education, so all that is left is the incident itself.

                                    That is why we are all here. To have an alternate explanation to experiences that do NOT insult our integrity in any way.
                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                      Thu, November 24, 2011 - 12:45 AM
                                      "If you wish to scrape back any credibility you had, you will listen to the person's story and look at it from the first person viewpoint. In other words, look at it as if you were the experiencer and explain it from that point of view."

                                      In anthropology, the experiencer's point of view is referred to as the "emic" perspective while the objective outsider's point of view is known as the "etic" perspective. For example, an illness may be explained as due to witchcraft from an emic perspective while it is explained as due to an infection of microorganisms from an etic perspective.

                                      I appreciate an emic perspective on paranormal activity. I just think it's the result of ignorance, credulity, and errors of perception and interpretation. Like disease caused by witchcraft, for example.

                                      Emic and etic
                                      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emic_and_etic
                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                    Wed, November 23, 2011 - 12:36 PM
                                    "I doubt it. Just because you don't accept those explanations don't mean that these things cannot be explained. If you want to be entitled to explain things as due to "paranormal" or "extraterrestrial" activity, you'll have to be tolerant of others who offer alternative explanations that don't invoke those erroneous perceptions. Most "paranormal" things that are claimed to be "unexplained" aren't unexplained at all. Rather the explainers are trying to persuade others of supernatural explanations that are ultimately faith-based in nature."

                                    First off, 'erroneous perceptions' can be used in your perception of what you consider the truth to be also, sorry... One could state that Evolution is just an erroneous assumption as well, just because bone fragments line up and many people 'assume' that they evolved doesn't make it so...

                                    It could be just as much of a leap of faith to say that scientific beings created life in stages on this planet and this actually fits the bill too other than the erroneous perception that life created itself...

                                    Just because the perceptions that you find to be fitting in your social status doesn't make it any more or less erroneous than any other perceptions that people share here... Truth is, nothing can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and in such a manner, evolution is in this same category as being such an erroneous perception because you can not prove that evolution is what you 'feel' it to be beyond a shadow of a doubt, again sorry...

                                    Popularity doesn't make an assumption correct just because the masses and social stigma lean that way. Even in a court of Law, circumstantial evidence can lead people to think one way in which many times we find that a far less popular actuality happened!

                                    So don’t be disturbed if someday, advanced scientific beings do land and share footage of our history that they themselves created and shatter the scientific stance of evolution as it is taught as being a proven stance…
                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                      Wed, November 23, 2011 - 1:00 PM
                                      Man is creating life that never existed before on this planet and if someday, man becomes extinct and some other race visits this planet and looks at the fossil record, do you believe that they would be ignorant enought to say that ALL life on this planet evolved or do you think they would have the intelligence to wonder if we might have been intelligent enought to create life? And even though the genes might line up with other genes and the things we might create might look like they evolved from other things but with improvements, doesn't mean that these things evolved. Looking at only the possibility of evolution as the only means by which life is on this planet is a thinking of a very limited mindset and one of ignorance when you don't look at all the possibilities that might account for the differences and diverse life that we see on this planet. So in my opinion, people who look at Evolution as being the ONLY reason to account for life on this planet, have the IQ of that of a child thinking that only his way of thinking is correct and I find many scientists that fit have this mannerism of a closed mindset and it is a glitch in learning that teachers teach that is very destructive to the intelects of genius.
                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                        Thu, November 24, 2011 - 12:55 AM
                                        "Looking at only the possibility of evolution as the only means by which life is on this planet is a thinking of a very limited mindset and one of ignorance when you don't look at all the possibilities that might account for the differences and diverse life that we see on this planet."

                                        And what other possibilities might those be?
                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                          Thu, November 24, 2011 - 8:10 AM
                                          @Me, "Looking at only the possibility of evolution as the only means by which life is on this planet is a thinking of a very limited mindset and one of ignorance when you don't look at all the possibilities that might account for the differences and diverse life that we see on this planet."

                                          @Hoopes, "And what other possibilities might those be?"


                                          @Me, "It could be just as much of a leap of faith to say that scientific beings created life in stages on this planet and this actually fits the bill too other than the erroneous perception that life created itself..."

                                          IF life on this planet was created in stages by intelligent, scientific life from other planets, this would leave the "same" fossil record that we now see in the fossil record and explain the explosion of diverse life after mass extinctions where the Evolutionary stance has many problems explaining the extinction of many life forms then a multitude of advancements in sophistication of life after the mass extinctions... If we look at Evolution as being the only way, you need to explain why the evolutionary advances didn't happen before the mass extinction to produce many more traits instead of after the extinction when many of these advance traits died off with their predecessors, in which case, most of the advancements of Evolution "DIED" off. Kind of makes you wonder why so many traits that didn't exist to begin with came about in a floundering system that is dieing off... Evolution is like building a house with wood and after all wood houses were burned then steel introduced itself as being a better building material and evolved from the wood.

                                          If you had an intelligence factor such as advanced beings advancing the evolutionary process of these houses and they saw that wood was inferior then this 'intelligent factor' might start to use steel but in the Evolutionary stance, you are saying that the remaining wood structures decided for themselves to turn into steel so that they would survive... Kind of an oxymoronic stance to take in my opinion for the wood structures to have intelligence in themselves to decide to turn into something they have no knowledge of or any way to scientifically do so.

                                          All I am saying is that there is another ‘possibility’ that exists that fits the model of the fossil record and that “NOTHING” is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt and too many times after such debates, the evolutionary scientist will end up claiming that Evolution has been proven by science, which is a false claim especially since there are other possibilities to the existence to life besides the ‘biased’ stance of Abiogenesis and an evolutionary progression from such a starting point all “presumed” from a fossil record thus Evolution “CAN” be considered an erroneous perception in the same sense that you consider that advanced life in the cosmos coming to this planet and creating life, scientifically is!

                                          Whenever you "prove" a 'stance' with assumption, all it is, is a guess at best and that is all the theory of Evolution is at best and is far from being statistically proven and is in the same category of an erroneous perception based solely on unproven assumptions. Man wasn't there to witness evolution, so all it is, is assuption, unproven and guesswork at best, an erroneous perception...
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Thu, November 24, 2011 - 8:23 AM
                                            I think we've been through this before, but you appear to have an extremely poor understanding of the theory of evolution and the massive amount of evidence that supports it. That's too bad.
                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                              Fri, November 25, 2011 - 5:38 AM
                                              @Hoopes, "I think we've been through this before, but you appear to have an extremely poor understanding of the theory of evolution and the massive amount of evidence that supports it. That's too bad."

                                              I don't criticize anyone for believing in Evolution, all I state is that there is a possibility that the fossil record "could" have another practical and very possible explanation that people like you overlook by way of ignorance (and by social ridicule and social acceptance) but isn't this a closed minded approach to science? To overlook every possibility that may exist instead of studying such a possible stance instead of ridiculing it all on the basis of 'bias of a popular belief' as is the stance of the Evolutionary mindset?

                                              I have sat in your chair Hoopes and at one time, I fully believed in Evolution and you keep stating that I know very little in terms of all the scientific data that supports Evolution yet what you ignore is the fact that at one time I did fully believe in the science that backed Evolution but I have now opened my train of thought to examine other possibilities too and everything that science uses to state that evolution has too many things that show evidence that it should be correct, when you look at the possibility that beings such as ourselves could have created this life in stages, you soon find that this IS a very real possibility too and you can't just overlook such evidence that we ourselves are proving that advanced, intelligent beings such as ourselves could produce ALL the same evidence in the fossil record as we find and "ASSUME" to be the result of Abiogenesis and Evolution!
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Thu, November 24, 2011 - 8:27 AM
                                            Why does your theory need "scientific beings"? Couldn't the same thing have been accomplished by Glenda the Good Witch waving her magic wand? Why not the Flying Spaghetti Monster in all his noodly glory? Or Santa and his elves? How would you know?
                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                              Fri, November 25, 2011 - 5:22 AM
                                              @Hoopes, "Why does your theory need "scientific beings"? Couldn't the same thing have been accomplished by Glenda the Good Witch waving her magic wand? Why not the Flying Spaghetti Monster in all his noodly glory? Or Santa and his elves? How would you know?"

                                              Well, I could answer that question but it seems you are 'implying' that since you believe all these things to be imaginary that you think that extraterrestrials to be imaginary too.
                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                Fri, November 25, 2011 - 5:33 AM
                                                Why do my beings have to be 'scientific beings'?

                                                Well because an understanding in science and an advanced knowledge in genetic manipulation, as man is just in the infancy of these fields, could explain an advanced civilization using the same learned knowledge that we are just learning, to create life.

                                                I don't believe in fictitious monsters or Gods (as you try to insinuate) that can create the universe but I do believe in what man has accomplished and through an ever advancing knowledge in genetics and microbiology, someday we ourselves are headed to this same advanced point in being able to create life at will on a distant planet without the need to take all the diversity of life along with us but to Tara-form a planet through Synthetic Biology and leave a trail of fossil records that 'resemble' natural evolution.

                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                Fri, November 25, 2011 - 7:22 AM
                                                "Well, I could answer that question but it seems you are 'implying' that since you believe all these things to be imaginary that you think that extraterrestrials to be imaginary too."

                                                As a matter of fact, I do.
                                                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                  Fri, November 25, 2011 - 7:26 AM
                                                  What's YOUR definition of "imaginary" and why doesn't it include ETs?
                                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                    Sat, November 26, 2011 - 9:21 AM
                                                    Ok, so Hoopes asked me, "What's YOUR definition of "imaginary" and why doesn't it include ETs?"

                                                    Here is what and why...

                                                    imaginary - existing only in imagination: lacking factual reality.

                                                    By the same token that the evolutionary scientists uses his 'imagination' to 'assume' that certain bone fragments line up to show an evolutionary process, I use the imagined sense that extraterrestrials could very well be responsible for the same fossil records by creating life in stages across the ages thus the existence of extraterrestrials 'could' exist because of the mere existence of life we find on this planet but evolutionary scientist use this same imagined sense of stature to state that the fossil record shows proof of evolution though abiogenesis.

                                                    My belief in extraterrestrials is no different than your belief in abiogenesis and evolution without empirical proof one way or another.

                                                    So I ask you the same question Professor Hoopes, "What's YOUR definition of "imaginary" and why doesn't it include Evolution and abiogenesis, when I can clearly show that evolution AND abiogenesis is but an erroneous perception, thus 'imagined', existing only in imagination: lacking factual reality?"

                                                    On the subject of ghosts, I have NO evidence to even entertain the existence of ghosts… No foundation to base any type of belief in them. The same with Gods, I find no proof backing such an existence but Extraterrestrials (living, conscious beings) there is a possibility that they exist because we ourselves are extraterrestrials ourselves on a planet in the middle of the cosmos so this gives me reason that life exists thus the chances are that life exists elsewhere seeing that we are on a planet with all the things that we understand to support life and if there is anything I have learned from the study of the sciences is that if you find one thing to exist in science then you will soon find this same particle, element or life form, whatever if may be to exist in multitudes and we have NEVER found anything so remote that we have only found just one sole particle or one elemental particle and even on Earth we find a multitude of life so to think that life only exists on Earth is kind of arrogant in a scientific sense and purely ‘unscientific’……
                                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                      Sat, November 26, 2011 - 2:28 PM
                                                      >Ok, so Hoopes asked me, "What's YOUR definition of "imaginary" and why doesn't it include ETs?" Here is what and why... imaginary - existing only in imagination: lacking factual reality. By the same token that the evolutionary scientists uses his 'imagination' to 'assume' that certain bone fragments line up to show an evolutionary process, I use the imagined sense that extraterrestrials could very well be responsible for the same fossil records by creating life in stages across the ages thus the existence of extraterrestrials 'could' exist because of the mere existence of life we find on this planet but evolutionary scientist use this same imagined sense of stature to state that the fossil record shows proof of evolution though abiogenesis.>

                                                      Thank you. you have illustrated here perfectly who it is impossible to carry on a rational discussion with one of your perspective. When you equated "evolutionary scientists uses his 'imagination' to 'assume' that certain bone fragments line up to show an evolutionary process" with "this same imagined sense of stature to state that the fossil record shows proof of evolution though abiogenesis" you certifiably entered la-la land intellectually.
                                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                        Sun, November 27, 2011 - 12:18 AM
                                                        "you certifiably entered la-la land intellectually"

                                                        Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself.
                                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                          Sun, November 27, 2011 - 12:09 PM
                                                          @Will, "you certifiably entered la-la land intellectually"

                                                          @Hoopes, "Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself"

                                                          Appeal to ridicule: This is a rhetorical tactic that mocks an opponent's argument, attempting to inspire an emotional reaction (making it a type of appeal to emotion) in the audience and to highlight the counter-intuitive aspects of that argument, making it appear foolish and contrary to common sense. Demonstrating the argument’s logic in an extremely absurd way typically does this. In retrospect, this action can backfire and show the true ignorance of the attacker using the fallacy.

                                                          Immature use of fallacies…
                                                          Bravo, Will and Hoopes for your ridiculous use of a fallacy to try to undermine the fact that there are other reasons behind the fossil record in your attempt to make these ‘other’ possibilities look ridiculous or by trying to make me look ridiculous by showing another reasonable stance but since you can’t fight against my claims all you can do is ridicule by way of ‘Appeal to ridicule’ fallacy.

                                                          This doesn’t change the basis that Evolution is built upon, “assumption”: In logic an assumption is a proposition that is taken for granted, as if it were true based upon presupposition without preponderance of the facts!

                                                          With such an illogical stance you defend the stance of Evolution even though there are other logical explanations to the fossil record that you either deny by reason of your fallacies or you just plain ignore anything that contradicts your stance to an illogical stance in favor of evolution, either way, it’s your ignorance that hampers your intelligence in your failed outlook on the subject and your ridicule plays no part in my beliefs or my stance in which you must be having a hard time accepting since you resort to such immature fallacies as the only means to mock a valid stance :)

                                                          Do you have anymore immature mocking to do? Because all this does is show your immaturity and nothing else... Again, Evolution and abiogenesis are still just erroneous perceptions that life created itself and no manner of evidence exists that proves otherwise... So it could be very easy to mock you in the same sense of believing in such a stance so meticulously….
                                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                            Sun, November 27, 2011 - 1:23 PM
                                                            There are two possible explanations to the fossil record, either from evolution or from life being created in stages by scientists. Either one is a valid stance and bias towards evolution doesn't disprove the other and your mocking mannerisms just shows your lack of maturity in debate but doesn't discredit the other real possibility that life 'may' have been the result of creation in stages on this planet.

                                                            I do believe that the kids are frustrated so they must revert to name calling and ridicule. But I would expect no less from an X schoolteacher and a flailing professor... Oh, but wait, I would expect for such learned individuals to look at all possible stances and not to ridicule a valid possibility but I see a pattern in these two individuals that don't show an actual method of reason in the ways of science but one in which they are bias and ignore any other real possibilities besides the stance of evolution which leaves them in a safe spot, away from any ridicule themselves even if this stance might turn out to be wrong even though so popular, but if that ever happens then we can rely on these same individuals stating that they believed in scientific creation all along... Oh, that's right, we can show 'scientific creation' (Synthetic Biology) in the lab right now and it IS a very real possibility because we can show proof of such in a lab using scientific knowledge...
                                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                            Sun, November 27, 2011 - 2:39 PM
                                                            "Appeal to ridicule"

                                                            You can't even get your fallacies straight. Will and I were simply expressing our opinions.

                                                            Are opinions unacceptable here? Isn't that what an online discussion forum is for? Expressing opinions?
                                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                              Mon, November 28, 2011 - 6:20 AM
                                                              "You can't even get your fallacies straight. Will and I were simply expressing our opinions.
                                                              Are opinions unacceptable here? Isn't that what an online discussion forum is for? Expressing opinions?"

                                                              You are more than welcome to express your opinions here but when it comes to ridicule, as you clearly were doing, then I just showed what you did. Now you think that posting that you didn't ridicule that it will change the ridicule into an opinion? (hahaha) Your opinions are often full of ridicule and you wonder 'why' so many people get into arguments with you...

                                                              If you want to discuss the all the 'possibilities' of the fossil record, then let's do that, without the ridicule... and if you don't think that scientists can create life and leave a trail of fossil records, then state your stance but to resort to ridicule as your 'opinion' is kind of childish.

                                                              You are too funny Hoopse... Sometimes you close your eyes in hopes that the evidence will go away and now when you get caught ridiculing someone, you post that you were just stating your opinion, yeah, your opinion was that you though my posts to be that of being certifiable? That is ridicule. I actually laugh at your childish actions in your attacks and the way you try to hide afterwards. Too funny, at least you still make me laugh every day :)
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Thu, November 24, 2011 - 8:32 AM
                                            That said, your argument does help me to appreciate why you'd regard "scientific beings" as superior. If science is superior to superstition, it would behoove you to learn how it works.
                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                              Fri, November 25, 2011 - 5:48 AM
                                              @Hoopes, "That said, your argument does help me to appreciate why you'd regard "scientific beings" as superior. If science is superior to superstition, it would behoove you to learn how it works."

                                              Do you think that you are the only person that knows how evolution works by your implied insults towards me just because I see another possibility when it's in fact your ignorance that shows a lack of insight and intelligence through your biased view of evolution to even look at any other possibilities?

                                              Hoopes, you show your lack of scientific nature in your closed-mindedness towards any other perception and this is a flaw that no teacher should exhibit or teach others! Thus the reason I said that your way of teaching is an insult to any potential genius that may be in any of your classes because such a mindset is detrimental to the learning process and someone with an IQ any higher than yours you find to be a threat and I see you ‘criticize’ instead of learning anything of importance from your own closed-mindedness!
                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                      Thu, November 24, 2011 - 12:52 AM
                                      "So don’t be disturbed if someday, advanced scientific beings do land and share footage of our history that they themselves created and shatter the scientific stance of evolution as it is taught as being a proven stance…"

                                      I'll try not to be if you won't be disturbed if someday advanced beings land and, when they learn that there are a significant number of humans who deny evolutionary theory, start giggling and laughing uncontrollably.
                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                        Thu, November 24, 2011 - 11:50 AM
                                        "Emic and etic "

                                        Just thought I'd get us back to where I left you.

                                        I believe in what Darwin said and have my own theories on any ET intervention involved with our species. Not intending to ram those theories down anyone else's throat, I asked if you had the ability to be able to do something that is used in the Theatrical world to gain insight into a character. It is also a good psychological tool to help one understand a relationship with another. You avoided the question.

                                        Two chairs face each other. One person sits in one and stares at the other chair until they "see" the person they have the conflict with sitting there (this may even be another aspect of themselves).

                                        they tell the other chair what they think, then sit in the opposite chair.

                                        Once there, with the words spoken still ringing in their ears, they "become" the person they have conflict with and respond to the words spoken as if those words were spoken to them.

                                        This conversation continues until the conflict is resolved or until one becomes so frustrated with the other's intractability that you storm out kicking the other chair over.

                                        Yes, I've seen it happen. One person actually threatened physical violence toward the empty chair and meant it.

                                        Somehow Hoopes, I think this kind of exercise would be too hard for you, but really believe you would benefit from it.
                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                          Thu, November 24, 2011 - 6:31 PM
                                          "Two chairs face each other. One person sits in one and stares at the other chair until they "see" the person they have the conflict with sitting there (this may even be another aspect of themselves)."

                                          This is termed projection in psychology. I see a lot of here projected onto Hoopes because he is relentless in addressing others' perspectives, and I see nothing wrong with that. It's stimulating and thought-provoking. If he and one or two others (like TMP) weren't here this would be the sheeple tribe, with all agreeing bah bah bah.

                                          It seems to me that the following applies not to Hoopes but to those of you who are so frustrated with his persistence and very presence here:

                                          "Yes, I've seen it happen. One person actually threatened physical violence toward the empty chair and meant it."

                                          If you can see Hoopes resorting to that you have a massive reality distortion field, AKA delusional thinking.

                                          "Somehow Hoopes, I think this kind of exercise would be too hard for you, but really believe you would benefit from it."

                                          Au contraire! It's eminently clear that it's too hard for -you-. You're getting increasingly brittle, hostile and defensive in your replies and responses. Look in the mirror for a change!

                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Thu, November 24, 2011 - 9:55 PM
                                            "If he and one or two others (like TMP) weren't here this would be the sheeple tribe, with all agreeing bah bah bah."

                                            Thanks, Will. I'm continually delighted by the irony that TMP and I, who play the role of regularly pointing out that the emperor is buck naked, are the ones who are reviled by people who pride themselves on challenging the status quo. There are lots of twists and reversals in this and that complexity is fascinating.

                                            You've done a nice job of pointing out how critics of the sheeple can be members of a flock as well.

                                            It's from sheeple wool that the emperor's new clothes are regularly spun.
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Thu, November 24, 2011 - 11:06 PM
                                            "I see a lot of here projected onto Hoopes because he is relentless in addressing others' perspectives"

                                            I know you Will and Hoopes are good friends and it's nice that you would defend him.

                                            I will try and explain my frustration with Hoopes in this issue.
                                            A man asks how he ended up in the place he has. It is a genuine question and requires genuine investigation. What i am attempting to point out is that Hoopes appears to be responding with insinuations that the man is sick and unfit to participate in life.
                                            He has used words such as stupid, liar, deluded to describe persons who have asked the question. This in my eyes is nothing to promote as acceptable behaviour.

                                            Another example is a man who collapses after slurring his words at a bus stop asking for money for a sandwich. the Police arrive and throw him into the back of the van even though the man protests that he does not drink and is not drunk.
                                            The man is found dead in a cell the following morning.
                                            This is something that occurs all too often around the world.
                                            Observers observe and make conclusions based on their own views of reality and even in mundane situations cause distress and even death.

                                            There is a story that has been made into a film called "the doctor" staring William Hurt, where a eminent surgeon becomes ill and has to put up with his own hospital staff and his experience is so horrific that he changes his entire teaching system.

                                            My own experiences with this type of person as my wife has spent some time in hospitals, has been extensive and to be honest I have found that most persons with IQs higher than 140 are as competent in relating with others as persons with IQs below 90.

                                            I suggested that Hoopes would find the exercise I offered too hard to do simply because his responses show that he can not stand in another's shoes for any more than a few seconds, yet alone suffer them for a mile.

                                            This is my favourite.

                                            You stand on a beach and see your favourite person in the world in trouble out in the water. Do you rush to their aid?
                                            Change the situation.
                                            You see the worst person in the world in the water and they are calling for help. Do you rush to their aid?

                                            I know the answer for me and would never presume to answer for anyone else.

                                            That all being said.
                                            And I have said this many times before.
                                            Any one can tell me that they disagree with what I have to say, but they do not now, or at any time have the right to call me stupid, a liar, deluded or use any other negative derogatory term.

                                            If someone wishes to offer a logical argument to explain any of the experiences people have been experiencing without being negative or insulting, then I am sure we're all ears. None of us are sheep as you have suggested Will and we are not all here to just agree with one another.
                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                          Thu, November 24, 2011 - 9:41 PM
                                          "You avoided the question."

                                          I absolutely did not. If I'm not mistaken, what you're suggesting is that I try understanding "emic" points of view instead of only considering the "etic" ones. You don't indicate that you understood my language or these helpful anthropological concepts.

                                          I think I can appreciate *why* someone would want to believe in ghosts and other paranormal activity. I just think it represents a flawed interpretation of reality.
                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                          Thu, November 24, 2011 - 9:46 PM
                                          "Somehow Hoopes, I think this kind of exercise would be too hard for you, but really believe you would benefit from it."

                                          There's no need to be insulting, Gerard. I don't think it's "too hard" for you to appreciate the errors in your perceptions and interpretations, which is precisely why I haven't treated you like an empty chair and stormed off.
                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                        Fri, November 25, 2011 - 6:08 AM
                                        @Hoopes, "I'll try not to be if you won't be disturbed if someday advanced beings land and, when they learn that there are a significant number of humans who deny evolutionary theory, start giggling and laughing uncontrollably. "

                                        All I am saying is that there are other possibilities to the fossil record and at least I entertain ALL these possibilities and if I find any other feasible possibilities, I will study them too in which case if an advanced civilization did show up, who would they laugh at? The person who studied every and all possible situations or the one that got stuck on just one possibility because of a biased view of popularity of the possibility?

                                        Science should not EVER teach biased ignorance because this sort of reasoning is a recipe for disaster, just as the Flat-Earthers and ‘center of the universe’ mindset being the most popular with the so-called evidence pointing in that direction and every scholar at the time not wanting to be go against the grain or state anything that will put their reputation in jeopardy because they might think any different or look at any evidence in contrary to their contemporaries.

                                        At least you recognize that humanity might not be the only species in the universe with a sense of humor and laugh at your biased ignorance… I find this to be a human trait but at least you seem to think that maybe this trait isn't just human and may be a trait of other intelligence beings?
                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                          Fri, November 25, 2011 - 7:19 AM
                                          "All I am saying is that there are other possibilities to the fossil record and at least I entertain ALL these possibilities and if I find any other feasible possibilities, I will study them too in which case if an advanced civilization did show up, who would they laugh at?"

                                          I'll be curious to know how far you get in your investigation of Glenda, the FSM, and Santa. I can offer lots of other possibilities for you to investigate, too. There are thousands of creation stories, of which "scientific beings" from another planet is just one.
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Fri, November 25, 2011 - 7:52 AM
                                            "The only way of finding the limits of the possible is by going beyond them into the impossible." ~ Arthur C. Clarke

                                            "Psychedelic experience is only a glimpse of genuine mystical insight, but a glimpse which can be matured and deepened by the various ways of meditation in which drugs are no longer necessary or useful. If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen..." ~ Alan Watts

                                            These have been paramount--along with some others--guiding principles in my life. It is, however, so easy to remain stuck and unable to hang up the phone. Attraction and aversion can prevent one to be open to the possible, just clinging to that which holds one back.
                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                              Fri, November 25, 2011 - 8:59 AM
                                              Excellent quotation, Will.

                                              There are many things that reveal and inspire, among them dreams and visions, but all must ultimately be evaluated within a diverse and pluralistic social milieu if they are to become anything more than personal revelations or even religious doctrine.

                                              If I have a compelling dream in which it's revealed to me that white people were created by a black scientist named Yakub (a belief in the Nation of Islam), or that the souls of Thetans were brought to Earth by Xenu (a belief of Scientologists), or that humans were the result of genetic experimentation by extraterrestrials (a belief of Raelians), that doesn't make it so--not even if there are millions of people who have the same dream or accept this revelation as truth.

                                              All of these groups challenge the theory of evolution, but their questioning--impassioned and enthusiastic as it may be--does not make it any less robust.
                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                Sat, November 26, 2011 - 6:28 AM
                                                @Hoopes, "If I have a compelling dream in which it's revealed to me that white people were created by a black scientist named Yakub (a belief in the Nation of Islam), or that the souls of Thetans were brought to Earth by Xenu (a belief of Scientologists), or that humans were the result of genetic experimentation by extraterrestrials (a belief of Raelians), that doesn't make it so--not even if there are millions of people who have the same dream or accept this revelation as truth. All of these groups challenge the theory of evolution, but their questioning--impassioned and enthusiastic as it may be--does not make it any less robust. "

                                                If something can be accomplished by human ingenuity, such as genetic creation/synthetic biology and stated that by the same manner this might be the reason of our own creation and the reason for our existence, doesn't make it a dream or a hallucination from a drug induced thought...

                                                In fact it shows that it may be a very real possibity that 'some' in the scientific community just overlook in a biased fashion because they look at evolution as being proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (in which it is not).

                                                Call it what you wish but the evidence that intelligence can be a factor in the creation of life and can leave a fossil record in the same manner that evolution is built upon and such a stance of intelligent creation is not in the realms of mysticism by the mere fact that we can create life in the lab ourselves thus proving that an intelligent factor can be the result of a fossil record too.

                                                So to ignore and ridicule such is ignorance through a biased stand when we have evidence from our own making in the lab to show that an intelligent species can and does create genetic life in the lab.

                                                So you can choose to ignore such evidence in and of itself but the evidence stands and creation by an intelligence factor can not be falsified and is a valid claim no matter how much you might not want to believe in it or ignore it or ridicule it.

                                                @Hoopes, "that doesn't make it so--not even if there are millions of people who have the same dream or accept this revelation as truth."

                                                The same applies to Evolution... I think we have already established this 'fact' that evolution can be considered in this same light because Evolution and abiogenesis are still just erroneous perceptions that life created itself and no manner of evidence exists that proves otherwise... The 'assumption' that the fossil record points towards evolution doesn't make it so--not even if there are millions of people who have the same dream or accept this revelation as truth OR just because scholars have 'faith" that it's true. In the end, your belief in Evolution is just that, your belief and faith that it must be true (far from having any empirical evidence).

                                                The same thing happened with the 'popular' belief of scholars of times past when the scientific community believed that the Earth was at the center of the universe because of the so-called evidence they saw in the heavens... Yet there was other evidence that also fit the bill that the Earth must not be the center of the universe but that the Earth rotated around the Sun and look what happened to anyone that stood up and spoke out against the norm and had the same evidence to show another perspective. Just saying, just because the popular belief is with evolution doesn't make it so especially since there is another possibility with the evidence pointing in that direction and this evidence can't be ignored in the end. But the ones that have 'faith' in evolution tend to throw out any evidence that doesn't conform to their theory when it is the same mistake made in the past about the Earth being the center of the universe.................

                                                You can ridicule and ignore and be really ridiculous in your stance Hoopes but in the end you'll find that the evidence speaks for itself and shows that there is another possibility out there that can explain the fossil record. I'm not saying that creation by an intelligent factor is true but in the same light neither can you say that evolution is true, all we can say is that both can and 'must' be considered to be 'possible' through the evidence at hand and all you keep doing is liken to a little kid that doesn't want to hear the truth when he gets in trouble so he closes his eyes in hopes that the truth will go away. Classic, Hoopes, classic :)
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Fri, November 25, 2011 - 4:33 PM
                                            "I'll be curious to know how far you get in your investigation of Glenda, the FSM, and Santa. I can offer lots of other possibilities for you to investigate, too. There are thousands of creation stories, of which "scientific beings" from another planet is just one. "

                                            Yeah, I know how to determine mysticism from evidence. Which is the reason that I only entertain two possibilities to our existence, that being either abiogenesis from meteors crashing into the planet to create life or advanced life (a living, breathing ‘being’, not a God or mystical entity) using this planet as an ant farm........ But if another viable explanation comes along, I will at least look at any evidence to see if it is a possibility but as of yet I am not a believer in the fictitious bullshit you keep trying to make me look like I believe in just because you can’t see past your own nose...

                                            Just the mere fact that we are intelligent living beings on a planet in the middle of an ocean of the cosmos leads me to believe that we are not alone just by the mere fact that we are here and exist and are intelligent enough to create life by our intelligence, thus either we are an anomaly in the great cosmos, which by its mere size is very, very unlikely or we are the result of being created by others, just like us in the same way that we are eventually dreaming of doing in our future! Either way, makes sense to me but the latter, to me seems more plausible in the history of the universe and with the vastness of possibilities that others may have done exactly what we dream of doing in going out among the cosmos and spreading our seed of life... Even if we don't get there, I'm sure that if humanity is destined for destruction, we will "PLAN" a way to 'spread' our DNA out among the cosmos so that we may not ever be forgotten. Just saying, intelligence is wondrous in continuing onward and to think that WE are the very first life in the history of the universe is arrogant, very arrogant to say the least and anyone taking this stance is really uninformed or just plain stupid, thinking that humanity is alone and the very first of its kind to 'think' and have ‘consciousness’...

                                            But of course, these are only my beliefs but I base my beliefs not on mysticism but in intelligence in reasoning and I don’t let peer pressure guide my thinking in the way that a professional in education has to in fear of being ridiculed! What makes sense and fits the scientific theory aren’t always the accepted and the normal train of though and sometimes you have to look at other reasonable explanations to a standing theory especially when everything fits the exponentials of the equations.

                                            So your arrogance and bias of evolution being the ONLY cause of the fossil record is in no way detrimental to my thinking and your bias ‘against’ anything extraterrestrial being the reason of our existence is your problem to deal with and I only feel sorry for you for having such a closed mind in such a thought pattern in which I would think a teacher and educator would be more open to reason than you are, so I really feel sorry for your attitude on the subject.

                                            I’m not trying to belittle you, it’s just that given this puzzle you seem to look only at the edge pieces and you don’t see the entire picture very well. Do you?
                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                              Sun, November 20, 2011 - 8:58 PM
                              "A reasonable man would say after watching this huge body of paranormal data that has accumulated during the last few years that the subject certainly is not 'closed' yet to people like Hoopes it is forever closed no matter what evidence is presented."

                              Hardly. I just think it's reasonable to wait until all reasonable explanations have been exhausted before making the unreasonable leap to a "paranormal" or supernatural explanation.

                              By the way, I sense the malicious ghost of a psychotic serial killer in the room right behind you. Just thought I'd let you know...
                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                              Sun, November 20, 2011 - 9:20 PM
                              Pay attention to all the screen cuts. What you see in the interviews in this show is the illusion of continuity when in fact there is probably a lot of clever editing, cutting of relevant remarks, and decontextualization (or "recontextualization"). What appear to be remarks made in a chronological sequence without coaching or prompting probably aren't.

                              The show--like "paranormal" activity itself--is an illusion. It's important to be able to distinguish illusion from reality. People who see "magic" instead of a magician's clever illusions are making the same perceptual errors. Correct the errors and the illusion is revealed.

                              I think it's already been demonstated here Solari that you are especially susceptible to believing that illusions are not really illusions.

                              (By the way, that evil ghost right behind you is getting clearer. Turn around quickly and you might catch a glimpse of him.)
  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

    Sun, November 20, 2011 - 9:32 PM
    "The schlocky and Halloweenish production values of these shows is obnoxious, but the interviews are so riveting that I can easily overlook all that."

    Of course they're "riveting." They've been recorded, cut, and edited with the same schlocky production values and goals as the other parts of the program!
    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

      Mon, November 21, 2011 - 7:08 AM
      "Ghostly Encounters" is yet another interesting series. The case in the first link looks ostensibly like sleep paralysis until you get to the punchline at the end. The second episode interviews a priest who recounts his various experiences over the years.

      www.youtube.com/watch

      www.youtube.com/watch

      Here is the master Youtube page for "Ghostly Encounters." Lots of fascinating stories with nice long uncut patches of interview for Hoopes to feel better about.( This like teaching a child to listen and think like an adult.)

      www.youtube.com/results
      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

        Mon, November 21, 2011 - 10:22 AM
        "My Ghost Story" remains one of my favorite series because of the photographic evidence. Every one of the episodes in this series is accompanied by still and video evidence.

        www.youtube.com/watch


        Here is the master Youtube page for "My Ghost Story:"
        www.youtube.com/watch
        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

          Mon, November 21, 2011 - 12:31 PM
          I can't help but laugh out loud at Hoopes' allegations that the interviewees are being cut up and pasted out of context. That is so obviously contradicted by the interviews that all one has to do is watch. No further comment needed. Furthermore all of the interviewees end their interviews with synopses of what they have been through, what they learned, how it changed them that are in perfect agreement with the facts of the story as they told them. This confabulation of Hoopes' is the sort of immature "grasping" so characteristic of this man's thought. If anything is being cut and pasted here it is Hoopes' childish and desperate strategems to support his calcified opinions.
          I got this thread going because first of all this forum is often about the noumenal, and I though it might find these excursions pertinent and interesting to the wider subject of spirituality in general, but I also knew from experience that it would yet again make a fool of Hoopes and further expose him for what he is - a dedicated deceiver. Mission accomplished.
          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

            Mon, November 21, 2011 - 10:11 PM
            "That is so obviously contradicted by the interviews that all one has to do is watch."

            Further proof that there's a sucker born every minute. You were the one for that minute, dude.

            I have some detailed instructions about how to run a car on tap water. For you, a special price.
            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

              Tue, November 22, 2011 - 7:51 AM
              "Psychic Kids" is yet another Biography Channel series - this one about children gifted with the second sight and how they often need to be nurtured and advised of how to deal with such gifts. This one opens with the kid who located a murdered child in a truck that had been sunk in a lake. This case had been "cold" for 5 years when this boy located the tomb by a very unusual method. His dad had taken him fishing on the lake and when their boat came to float above the sunken truck the boy began having visions of a child dead in a truck. The police dragged the lake and found the child dead in the truck which the "sensitive" had described as to color also. There is also a scene in this episode when several psychic children plus a camera man filming them all saw a disembodied spirit passing by them and down some stairs. There is also a very interesting scene towards the end when one of the children summons the spirit of her dead grandmother for protection and the other psychic kids nearby get information as sudden flashes about the grandmother's manner of death.

              www.youtube.com/watch

              www.youtube.com/watch

              www.youtube.com/watch

              www.youtube.com/watch

              www.youtube.com/watch
              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                Tue, November 22, 2011 - 5:33 PM
                “Psychic Investigators “ is yet another Biography Channel series– This is one of scads of psychic detective stories on Youtube that all end with the police officers and detectives amazed by the accuracy of the psychic enlisted to help with difficult cases. The psychic here uses what she calls a “shamanic” journeying to visualize the crime scenes. Her ability to see uncanny and very, very specific details of crime scenes known only to the police and in some cases known only to the murderer which only come to light after the murderer confesses and elaborates on the crimes are stunning verification of paranormal skill. The detectives and officers involved are interviewed throughout this documentary, and then at the end summarize how helpful the psychic was in solving the case.

                www.youtube.com/watch

                www.youtube.com/watch

                www.youtube.com/watch
                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                  Tue, November 22, 2011 - 7:59 PM
                  Psychic Detectives: “Close to Home” – Another amazing investigation spearheaded by a psychic detective already well known to law enforcement. Of particular note at the end of the story the police detective emphasizes that there are many successful case like this one, but “you just don’t hear about them.”

                  www.youtube.com/watch
                  www.youtube.com/watch

                  Below is a brief synopsis of some of the most impressive forensic psychic work. Only about 5 per cent of people claiming the ability actually have it so there is lots of room for fundamentalist skeptics to choose bogus psychics and then have a media splash with them to prove deception.
                  www.victorzammit.com/article...ves.html
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                    Wed, November 23, 2011 - 8:22 AM
                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                      Fri, November 25, 2011 - 6:52 PM
                      Solari, I think I'm gonna start referring to you as 'Links' forthwith.

                      Because that's all you been contributing to this thread lately.
                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                        Fri, November 25, 2011 - 7:46 PM
                        ;-)
                        • Z
                          Z
                          offline 87

                          Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                          Mon, November 28, 2011 - 7:32 AM
                          This is an interesting topic - I've seen the psychic kids program, ghost hunters, a haunting, ghost adventures, fact or faked - I think some of the content is geared up for tv and some just unexplainable. My grandma always told us kids ghost stories and I could tell some was made up but what about the rest? I've been studying this for years by book and documentary and it has really made me question what I believe in regards to religion, like the next life, etc. I get a sense of hope that we do go on then I get a sense of confusion not knowing the exact parameters of it. This is almost 2012, imagine how many souls have lived on the earth since ages past. Could angels and demons be such a wise old soul who knows how to manipulate the elements for good or bad? Hope it not too far off topic but how does this type of evidence confirm or conflict your religious beliefs or lack thereof?
                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                            Mon, November 28, 2011 - 12:48 PM
                            >"Hope it not too far off topic but how does this type of evidence confirm or conflict your religious beliefs or lack thereof? "

                            I'd say it's a pretty easy and seamless transition. Believing in one set of scary ghosts told around a camp fire isn't much different than have similar scary stories told to you from a pulpit.
                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                              Mon, November 28, 2011 - 7:42 PM
                              Well said, TMP!
                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                Wed, November 30, 2011 - 8:35 PM
                                I was hoping in my absence over the holiday that this subject would further show up Hoopes's childish biases for what they are. The detective episodes in particular are enough verification for me that the subject cannot possibly be "closed," yet people like Hoopes's will continue to rant that everyone is delusional. In fact, the statistical probabilities of the synchronicities being coincidence are astronomical as any good scientist would acknowledge. That is why some detectives who practice forensic science by the way continue using mediums - the good ones deliver. These abstractions you guys have got off on are nothing more than face saving diversions. Since you cannot speak directly to the facts of the cases you dance around them with philosophical digressions that pretend real people were not doing real things. Saddest of all of course is the premise that certain things cannot possibly be true therefore anything contradicting the assertion must also be false. That sort of thinking is truly childish.

                                I am satisfied that if people like Hoopes actually watch these episodes without their fingers stuck in their ears then there will have been a breach in their elaborate defenses and that slowly but surely a little light will begin to bloom in their benighted skulls. Though it may be hard to believe I actually have some compassion and pity for people who are so blinded and ego eaten that they can no longer think straight or use their brains with any flexibility at all. Even sadder is to see that large sums were spent on expensive educations and yet the ability to think and observe somehow did not survive the process. The bosom serpent is hard beast to subdue.
                                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                  Wed, November 30, 2011 - 9:17 PM
                                  "I am satisfied that if people like Hoopes actually watch these episodes without their fingers stuck in their ears then there will have been a breach in their elaborate defenses and that slowly but surely a little light will begin to bloom in their benighted skulls."

                                  In other words, you think that other people will succumb to the same bad propaganda that you have.

                                  That's delusional thinking, son.
                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                    Fri, December 2, 2011 - 7:35 AM
                                    www.youtube.com/watch

                                    One of your silliest biases has to do with what you think to be the unassailable nature of reality such as we know it now - real physics. You have so abysmally kept up with physics that you are operating from ancient and anachronistic premises, and this prevents you from even entertaining other possibilites about reality. That a college professor would operate with such intellectual constriction just boggles my mind. Understand, that one of my real interests here is in gauging the state of modern university education and teaching. When I run across mentally diasbled people in the higher level teaching professions it is like bunmping into a fishy MD who got his degree from a matchbook college. It is fascinating and bizarre to see such intellectual wrecklessness running out and about with impunity and without professional censure.
                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                      Fri, December 2, 2011 - 12:40 PM
                                      >"It is fascinating and bizarre to see such intellectual wrecklessness running out and about with impunity and without professional censure. "

                                      What I find scarier - if not outright traumatizing - is that high schools and some colleges are graduating students with 'science' degrees who subscribe to a world view not unlike yours Solari.
                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                        Fri, December 2, 2011 - 2:52 PM
                                        Tonight Friday is " A Haunting" night on The Biography Channel. These are all reruns from the series that are also available to watch on Youtube, but watching them on a high def channel is extra interesting. The interviews with the actual real life participants come through a bit more clearly emotionally. These are all excellent stories too with plenty of corroborating witnesses and bystanders.
                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                          Fri, December 2, 2011 - 3:24 PM
                                          Correction. Friday night is "Planet Green" channel's paranormal fest night. Tomorrow night (Saturday) it will The Biography Channel's turn.
                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                            Sat, December 3, 2011 - 8:07 AM
                                            "The constant assertion of belief is an indication of fear."

                                            Jiddu Krishnamurti

                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                              Sat, December 3, 2011 - 8:38 AM
                                              It must be a bitch to fear paranormal activity.
                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                Sun, December 4, 2011 - 11:56 AM
                                                I haven't any fear of it anymore. With understanding fear goes away. That has been the main value of these excellent television shows. After watching many of them and seeing the commonality of experience among various people an understanding of what is really happening develops.
                                                I suspect that some of the most fundamental and bullheaded skeptics are actually the people most frightened by the implications, and fundamentalists are so protective of their fragile egos which willy nilly take calcified positions on things all over the place that they exist in a pall of fear that something they have righteously held to be an absolute truth for years may turn out to be foolish and short sighted. There is no one more fearful than an egomaniac.
                                                • Z
                                                  Z
                                                  offline 87

                                                  Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                  Sun, December 4, 2011 - 5:13 PM
                                                  'I'd say it's a pretty easy and seamless transition. Believing in one set of scary ghosts told around a camp fire isn't much different than have similar scary stories told to you from a pulpit.'

                                                  To me it was different but the analogy is true.

                                                  The thing was the stories might be true or not but the ones coming from the bible was supposed to be. A little research on the bible stories does shed light on that subject as would a little research about ghosts, knowledge is a good thing - in the right hands that would not distort it.

                                                  Besides I've always been put off by bible bangers that know next to nothing the origins of it and the types of books or shows that are re-enactments, I mean a story is one thing but a video, audio, or scientific readings is another.

                                                  My take anyway.
                                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                    Mon, December 5, 2011 - 8:14 AM
                                                    It is very telling that a block headed skeptic would immediately jump to the conclusion that stories about the paranormal are "scary." It demonstrates just how dimly they apprehend what is going on and why we are interested in it. Ghost stories to me are quite literally lessons in physics. The Halloweenish crap the networks attach to the stories for commercial purposes is just something I ignore. Granted, there can be a creepy factor, and when I first started looking at the stories I did get creeped out a times, but now I see what is going on really, and that has removed some veils and banished fear for the most part.
                                                    I have always suspected that fundamentalist skeptics are terrified of the idea that there might be an afterlife where accounts might be settled or at least brought forward according to what their behavior had been when on the earth plane. Considering how often many of them massage data and obfuscate it is no wonder they would harbor subliminal anxieties about their being an afterlife where they might be taken to task for living false lives. Now that would be scary for some of you.
                                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                      Mon, December 5, 2011 - 9:41 AM
                                                      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet The God Helmet...

                                                      Just this concept alone shows that there are things that can affect our psyche in ways we don't understand and the thing about the paranormal is that we just don't know enough about it to come to a rational explanation... There are phenomenons out there that we can't explain and for someone that doesn't believe in it to put it off as being nonsense or make-believe is kind of childish when real things happen sometimes that just can't be explained. I'm not saying there are ghosts or whatnot but I am saying that there are things that happen that we cannot explain yet...
                                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                        Mon, December 5, 2011 - 6:17 PM
                                                        Given the quality of the stories available to us these days it is not like these phenomena are even rare any more. It is common enough to be a part of the fabric of life for many people whether or not they are paying much attention. I know plenty of people who have had extraordinary paranormal experiences though admittedly I don't know many people who have had such emphatic experiences as usually make it to television.One thing that does stick out - there are often "personalities" associated with the phenomena whether they are "residual" or actively engaged in dialogue with the experiences, so I don't think we need to be very foggy about one thing - the phenomena often involve people who have died, and these people also often died violent deaths or fearful deaths.

                                                        My Ghost Story - "Lessons From Beyond."
                                                        www.youtube.com/watch

                                                        www.youtube.com/watch

                                                        www.youtube.com/watch
                                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                          Mon, December 5, 2011 - 8:32 PM
                                                          "I was hoping in my absence over the holiday that this subject would further show up Hoopes's childish biases for what they are."

                                                          Come on! Lighten up! As you and I and Hoopes and many others know, "De gustibus non disputandum est." it is unbecoming--in my view and that of many others'--to remain 'The Dog in the Manger'--constantly crying outrageously.
                                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                        Mon, December 5, 2011 - 9:48 PM
                                                        Not only cannot explain but cannot replicate.

                                                        As the article explains: "The only attempt at replication [of the "God Helmet"] published in the scientific literature reported a failure to replicate Persinger's effects."

                                                        Actually, that suggests an explanation: The results were faked.
                                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                          Wed, December 7, 2011 - 1:57 PM
                                                          All very studiously ignoring the many "replications" evident in the stories of thousands of people reporting paranormal activity and also recording it on film both still and video, and it makes perfect sense too that the "lab" would be in the field where the peculiar conditions necessary for manifestation are more likely to prevail. The "lab" should not be some lab room somewhere when dealing with these phenomena. It should be afield where the conditions favor the manifestations. These are often intimately bound up with place.
                                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                            Wed, December 7, 2011 - 2:21 PM
                                                            "Of all the superstitions preached by those very people who profess that they never stop inveighing against "superstition," that of "science " and "reason", is the only one which does not seem, at first sight, to be based on sentiment ; but there is a kind of rationalism which is nothing more than sentimentalism disguised, as is shown only too well by the passion with which its champions uphold it, and by the hatred which they evince for whatever goes against their inclinations or passes their comprehension, Besides, since rationalism, in any case, corresponds to a lessening of intellectuality, it is natural that its development should go hand in hand with that of sentimentalism... "

                                                            Rene Guenon
                                                          • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                            Wed, December 7, 2011 - 3:36 PM
                                                            What I Am Certain of Today: that you actually believe that you have said something with that statement.
                                                            • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                              Wed, December 7, 2011 - 4:20 PM
                                                              Both you and Hoopes are sentimentalists in that you adhere to positions you formulated long ago while ignoring and dodging new information. In that sense, you are sentimental for some tired old position that gives you an imagined warmth and security, or maybe you are just plain lazy. Just watching Hoopes in action here speaks volumes about his sentiments. Rather than address the specifics of these stories reported he typically goes off on excursions that conveniently ignore the facts of the case. He changes the subject when the subject becomes inconvenient to his preconceptions.

                                                              I had no illusions that you guys would learn anything or even consider anything in a reasonable manner. I am just hoping you will actually take in some new evidence. Nor do I have any illusions about your telling me any change in your thinking. Both you guys are so locked into your Tribe schtick and trollery that it might as well be an "act." It is an act. I consider both of you actors.
                                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                Thu, December 8, 2011 - 6:24 AM
                                                                Actually, Tant does have an open-ended train of reasoning unlike that of some in which even if Tant can be harsh, Tant gives a good jolt of reality sometimes that can make you think and reevaluate your thoughts on a more realistic level. Tant's posts will make you work on your points to be more believable otherwise Tant will find a hole and shoot your reasoning down and this is always a good thing in scientific reasoning, it’s just that Tant is brutal in doing so and from an entertaining aspect of, if they are actors, then Tant is playing the part to a tee :))
                                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                Thu, December 8, 2011 - 7:16 AM
                                                                Look at it this way Solari... Speaking in terms of the paranormal you may be getting into physics being the only way to 'explain' any paranormal activity by showing evidence of such and you would have to be top of the line in knowledge in doing such and if you are at this point of achievement then most likely your focus wouldn't be on ghosts but if it were then you 'might' be able to explain certain things to a point of reason that can be backed by evidence but it would be a lifetime achievement...

                                                                Look at it this way. There has never been anything in modern history that is accepted by 'paranormal' explanations... You have to show 'reason' and without reason then nothing can be explained.

                                                                (In a ‘science-fiction’ sense, I could look at it this way...)

                                                                Everything emits frequency! Frequency is what gives 'atoms' their shape, form and characteristics (if you remove “ONE” electron from an atom, it changes ‘frequencies’ thus changes into another element on the periodic chart)... Grouped atoms into molecules give off an orchestra of waves in which 'defines' what the item is, such as a chair or a living thing such as people of even the stars in which generate energy... Everything gives off a certain frequency in which defines the object and its characteristics...

                                                                We are made of billions of cells and each one of them is like a little electrical generator, which generates electricity. Our cells also radiate waves - frequencies - and all frequencies correspond to a sound, audible or not. Some scientists know how to render audible non-audible vibrations of the earth, the sun, the galaxies etc. What is true in the infinite big is true in the infinite small, of which we are composed. In March of 2004 a researcher of the department of nanotechnology of the University of California in Los Angeles got interested in the sound that human cells emit. Thanks to a microscope with a tunnel effect (Atomic Force Microscope), which he designed himself, he succeeded in finding, amplifying, and making audible the electrical vibration of the human cell. Considering we are composed of billions of cells which emit sounds and that that ensemble makes a "symphony," we are then composed of a cellular symphony. This symphony's particularity is that each of its notes, each cell, contains a hidden treasure where the whole symphonic score can be found: it is the cellular plan present in the heart of the cell. In decoding this compressed file, we can play back the symphony of life with a new orchestra of cells, thanks to cloning.

                                                                Each individual as a whole emits a symphony of frequencies, which defines each individual. Some people think that these frequencies can be picked up on by others with the appropriate scientific measures just as we can send computer data via wifi and use our remote control to control our TV’s, some think that advancing science may one day give us the ability of telepathy using advanced scientific techniques.

                                                                We do not know if these frequencies exist after life (to me the body would have to be cloned to be able to emit these same frequencies, without the body and mind, there is no vessel to carry and emit these same frequencies), but if something/someone were to regenerate (clone) the dead elsewhere after we die and the person that dies was alive again somewhere else generating these frequencies via scientific means, then we would believe in ghosts here on Earth because of these frequencies being picked up by certain people… This is on the fringes of science fiction but a possibility through science. Right now, technology does NOT exists to prove such a stance but we are ever getting closer to such techniques that science-fiction paves the road for…
                                                                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                  Thu, December 8, 2011 - 9:48 AM
                                                                  I prefer to let the evidence do the talking. There is plenty of it these days, and there is no merit in pretending that evidence is in short supply.
                                                                  We can sit here and spin endlessly the "how" of what is happening, but really we need to first absorb as much evidence as we can, and this is very easy to do now in the information age.

                                                                  This episode or episodes (links below) was showing on SyFy Channel last night. I choose it because it demonstrates the extent to which Ghost Hunters is always in debunking mode. They use their EMF meters as much for discovering pockets of electropollution which might be disarranging the mind as they use them to detect the energy signatures of spirits. GH often debunks and is first always looking for non -paranormal explanations of events, but then there are the undeniably fortean phenomena, and they are well trained to record these with audio recorders and thermal cameras which they do quite notably here especially towards the end of this episode.

                                                                  “Christmas Spirit”

                                                                  www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                  www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                  www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                    Thu, December 8, 2011 - 10:11 PM
                                                                    "They use their EMF meters as much for discovering pockets of electropollution which might be disarranging the mind as they use them to detect the energy signatures of spirits."

                                                                    EMF meters. Spirits. What bullshit.
                                                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                    Fri, December 9, 2011 - 9:44 PM
                                                                    >"I prefer to let the evidence do the talking."

                                                                    You could not have made me happier if you'd given me a hand-job while uttering that silly fucking sentence.

                                                                    Evidence? What evidence? Some of us here have been damn near *begging* you for your trove of evidence to back up your extraordinary claims.

                                                                    And yet... your retorts inevitably end up being analogous to a broken water vessel.

                                                                    They hold only the promise of emptiness.

                                                                    You sad, pathetic fuck.

                                                                    <deletion of post expected>
                                                              • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                Thu, December 8, 2011 - 10:09 PM
                                                                "Rather than address the specifics of these stories reported he typically goes off on excursions that conveniently ignore the facts of the case."

                                                                Bullshit. There are no facts presented here, just entertainment provided by people who haven't got a clue about what they are actually experiencing. Take enough of that and splice it together and you have a TV show. Those aren't facts, they're illusions. They're anecdotes. They're meaningless except as examples of how people grope for answers when they really don't know what is happening.
                                                                • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                  Sat, December 10, 2011 - 6:44 PM
                                                                  Q.E.D.
                                                                  • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                    Mon, December 19, 2011 - 8:28 AM
                                                                    www.neuroquantology.com/index....iew/467

                                                                    A geekily presented laboratory setting experiment that has profound implications for our view of physical reality as well as "ghostly" phenomena.
                                                                    • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                      Mon, December 19, 2011 - 8:43 AM
                                                                      "Those aren't facts. Those are illusions."

                                                                      Where does one start with someone like this? You have so shut down your sensing apparatus to anything that contradicts your narrow little world view that you can't really observe any more. It is sad.
                                                                      By the way, the copious photographic evidence in these shows is not an "illusion" though you might desperately wish it so, and the "facts" of the murder cases which were assisted by the psychics are indeed "facts." The psychics all reported "facts" of the cases which were later born out by the discoveries of the police, and which "facts" the police used as clues to further their investigations. That is why the best psychics continue to be in demand by law enforcement. I notice you have studiously avoided the police cases, Hoopes.

                                                                      It is difficult for this forum to hold my attention if there are only a few souls such as Will here who aren't hamstrung by entrenched bias and an obstinate closing of the mind. It is occasionally fascinating to peek in on the spectacle of Hoopes whose provinciality has a thin veneer of the intellectual that is actually a mask for something very primitive and crude. I know only a few people like this. They are kind of jaw dropping to observe at first, but the act gets old pretty quickly.
                                                                      • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                        Mon, December 19, 2011 - 7:41 PM
                                                                        >"Where does one start with someone like this? "

                                                                        You might start by looking up to (or at) them as someone as a foil. Someone who challenges your Shite View of Things - as a resource to hone your Shite View of Things argument.

                                                                        Sorry to be so... harsh. Ooops, meant to say...'honest.'
                                                                        • Re: Paranormal Witness - "Rain Man"

                                                                          Mon, December 19, 2011 - 7:49 PM
                                                                          ;-)
                                                                          • Spirit of Highway 50

                                                                            Mon, December 19, 2011 - 10:17 PM
                                                                            "Demonised" That is certainly appropriate. I first conceived of the demonism of Hoopes as I watched him dance around the horror of 911 with calculated misprision of the facts. Considering the seriousness of the event and that he deigned to have an opinion at all even though he consistently tweaked the facts in outlandish ways to bolster his preconception I think it quite fair to label such behavior "demonic." There is a clot of trolls whose job it is to man the desk here 24/7 and deflect attention away from the truth of that event, and "demonic" is an appropriate moniker for these people. If anyone is demonic then the Absorption Ministry certainly is along with its sympathizers. I regard Zionofascism to be truly demonic in thought and deed and people infected with this sickness are peculiarly marked in their habit of thought which is mostly engaged in deception. Well chosen, Will

                                                                            "The Spirit of Highway 50"
                                                                            A true story about a woman who became lost in the woods along a highway in southern California after a fatal car wreck, and the amazing series of paranormal events that led to her discovery. Police officers involved in the case.are also interviewed.

                                                                            www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                            www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                            www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                            • "Entertainment Value"

                                                                              Mon, December 19, 2011 - 11:26 PM
                                                                              Interviews with police officers and other police personnel who witnessed the Trumbull County UFO. Of course, this is all merely for "entertainment value." The police officers are all liars and actors, right Hoopes? You do understand that my beef with you here concerns your deliberate mischaracterization of how these stories are told and the standards to which they are held? Everyone here knows your little games, so I hardly need bring them to light. I am just calling you out, Hoopes. Every now and then I like to visit this strange zoo exhibit and see if the little monster is still barking the same way. Now that's entertainment.

                                                                              www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                              www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                              www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                              • Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                Tue, December 20, 2011 - 1:07 AM
                                                                                www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                                I love the comic actor Fred Willard especially when Christopher Guest is directing him. How utterly groovy then that Willard's ghost story is one of very best in the Celebrity Ghost Story series. This link is straight to Willard's spot (which is #3 out of 4,) but the previous and following number in the entire episode are all told by people who started out being skeptics before reality convinced them otherwise as it did Willard. It did not entirely rearrange their fundamentally skeptical mindset, but on this subject of ghosts it did. Believe it or not it is possible to be a skeptic in general and a scientist and yet still admit the reality of new things previously unknown and misunderstood.
                                                                                • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                  Wed, January 11, 2012 - 6:01 AM
                                                                                  boingboing.net/tag/raw-week

                                                                                  “Wilson also criticized scientific types with overly rigid belief systems, equating them with religious fundamentalists in their fanaticism. In a 1988 interview, when asked about his newly-published book The New Inquisition: Irrational Rationalism and the Citadel of Science, Wilson commented: "I coined the term irrational rationalism because those people claim to be rationalists, but they're governed by such a heavy body of taboos. They're so fearful, and so hostile, and so narrow, and frightened, and uptight and dogmatic... I wrote this book because I got tired satirizing fundamentalist Christianity... I decided to satirize fundamentalist materialism for a change, because the two are equally comical... The materialist fundamentalists are funnier than the Christian fundamentalists, because they think they're rational! ...They're never skeptical about anything except the things they have a prejudice against. None of them ever says anything skeptical about the AMA, or about anything in establishment science or any entrenched dogma. They're only skeptical about new ideas that frighten them. They're actually dogmatically committed to what they were taught when they were in college..."
                                                                                  • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                    Tue, January 24, 2012 - 7:20 AM
                                                                                    This is one of the best episodes of the "Paranormal State" series. Entitled "The Firehouse" it investigates a haunting at a firehouse but develops into a really amazing story where everybody wins in surprise fashion. The medium Chip Coffey's best performance ever.

                                                                                    www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                                    www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                                    www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                                    • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                      Tue, January 24, 2012 - 9:00 PM
                                                                                      zzzzzzz.....
                                                                                      • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                        Sun, February 12, 2012 - 12:01 AM
                                                                                        The Haunted – “House of the Rising Dead."

                                                                                        This is a pretty spectacular episode about a wickedly haunted home in New Orleans purchased by some poor unwitting victims who all damn near got thrown down the stairs to their deaths. The professionally done cleansing at the end has some very interesting stuff about mirrors.

                                                                                        www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                                        www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                                        www.youtube.com/watch
                                                                                        • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                          Thu, March 1, 2012 - 1:10 PM
                                                                                          www.youtube.com/watch

                                                                                          Another skeptic bites the dust.
                                                                                          • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                            Thu, March 1, 2012 - 8:23 PM
                                                                                            More crackpot stories. I'm amazed that anyone can take these seriously.
                                                                                            • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                              Wed, March 14, 2012 - 12:15 PM
                                                                                              What is really amazing is how closed up and constricted you are. The whole world is full of crackpots and no one is telling the truth if it doesn't jive with your little ossified conclusions that have quit admitting new evidence years and years ago. You are literally living in the past.
                                                                                              • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                                Thu, March 15, 2012 - 12:03 AM
                                                                                                Better living in the past (if that's what it is) than mistaking fantasy for reality. Can you really not see that these commercially produced episodes for an exploitative TV series are fictionalized accounts of errors in perception?
                                                                                                • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                                  Thu, March 15, 2012 - 5:34 AM
                                                                                                  These are people telling their stories, Hoopes, and as you well know the tellers are often policemen and other trained observers sworn to verity by their profession and who do not get any financial reward for telling their stories. Their only reward is ridicule, but they have a compulsion to tell their truth anyway. That's how "truth" works for some of us Hoopes.
                                                                                                  I realize that people with social Aspergers such as yourself are not much good at reading human emotion and expression. We try to make allowances for your your deficit. Unfortunately, there is no medication you can take to treat your disability.
                                                                                                  • Re: Fred Willard's Tale

                                                                                                    Thu, March 22, 2012 - 5:07 PM
                                                                                                    "I realize that people with social Aspergers such as yourself"

                                                                                                    There you go again with the ad hominems, this time insulting people with Asperger's. I don't think that helps your credibility at all.

                                                                                                    As for "people telling their stories," I've already pointed out that your links are to a commercial TV program, made by professionals who are skilled at collecting and editing video, music, imagery, and the like in order to create manipulative propaganda. They select exactly what they want you to see and hear and leave out the rest. You seem utterly unable to see that, mistaking illusion for "truth."

                                                                                                    As for the interviewees, their only reward is not ridicule. At a minimum, they get their few minutes of fame on TV and the satisfaction of seemingly important strangers paying attention to them. They know exactly why they're being interviewed and are going along with the premise of the show. Anyone who doesn't do that, or who doesn't contribute to moving the story ahead, gets edited out.

                                                                                                    If you can't see that, well, I'm sorry for you.