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Waken Sleeping Child, Shake Dreams From Your Hair Little One.

topic posted Fri, April 25, 2008 - 10:56 AM by  Unsubscribed
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There has been an awakening happening for some time now, yet there is still much mis-information and lack of true understanding. I hope to be able to provide some tools and perhaps some answers.

First and foremost:

DON'T PANIC...

We are currently in the Dark Ages.... The Kali Yuga... Dec 21, 2012 marks the end of the Baktun Long Count... This will be the Begining of the Satya Yuga or the Golden Age... Also it marks the end of a 25,625 year cycle known as 'the precession of the equinox'. It is the end of the Age of Pieces and the Beginning of the Age of Aquarius... If that wasn't enough it also marks the day when the winter solstice sun passes through the Galactic Center as it travels the spirit road through the heavenly gate unlocking the stargate (Dimensional Gate) at two doorways... (as well the 'quarantine' Force Field 3rd-7th density)

Reality IS what you make...

Now is a time to get together and share information and love...

We are making a future right here and now...

Many psychics have claimed to not be able to see past the end of the Baktun Long Count... Doomsayers would have you believe it is because the world will end... Some like Terrence McKenna believed time would end on that date.... Neither are even close... Time is a Fractal... Remember that... not Linear.... But going in all directions, at once even.... Remember we live in an infinite universe...

I have had no such problems, but to quell their alarm...

We are currently 4th Density (Dimensional), not 3rd as many may think... That shift happened artificially in 1978 and naturally in 1998...

12.21.2012 will be a marker on our way to 5th Density.

The reason for the psychic block is simple...

You can not see into the next higher vibration... This is a simple rule, even in classical physics...

The Planet itself as a spiritual entity will be moving into 5th Density as well as 22 other star systems with their own planets that are in our galaxy. Part of the agenda of the ones that control us is to make us manifest our own demise. If you devote your time to thinking negative things, then you are manifesting exactly what you don't what to happen into existence. What we must now all do is think and live with universal love for all beings, even the draconians, greys and reptilians... Feel free to use my links in my profile to do your own research.
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  • Manjushri i have seen before your a man of knowledge on these subjects.

    I have a couple of questions for you.

    First could you expand a little on this -

    We are currently 4th Density (Dimensional), not 3rd as many may think... That shift happened artificially in 1978 and naturally in 1998...

    especialy what you mean by what happened in 1978 and 1998 ?

    Another thing is you say 2012 is the start of the age of auqurius. However this is hotly disputed. -

    Heindel-Rosicrucian based interpretation: begins in ca. AD 2654[19] (the Orb of influence started in ca. 1934/1930s).
    Elsa M. Glover interpretation:[20] ca. AD 2638.
    Neil Mann interpretation: begins AD 2150.
    Dane Rudhyar was one of the most important astrologers of the 20th century. His many influential books helped reconcile astrology with modern psychology and free it from the deterministic trappings of the past. According to his interpretation, the Age of Aquarius will begin in AD 2062.
    Nicholas Campion in "The Book of World Horoscopes" indicates that he has collected over 90 dates provided by researchers for the start of the Age of Aquarius and these dates have a range of over 2,000 years commencing in the 15th century AD[21]. The range of dates for the possible start of the Aquarian age range from 1447 to 3621.

    Not trying to be pedantic as i am sure we are starting to feel the start of the shift into the new age of aquarius, but wondered what you made of above ?

    When i posted up a question on 2012 in two of the main astrology forums on tribe, non of the astrologers were aware of the significance of the date, although some of them had heard about the Mayan end of time etc.

    However i do think thats most likely because the changes you list thats going to happen then are out of the normal realm of our planets, or normal astrology and are more galaxtic, so possibly much more profund. I wounder if you have come across any articles on this by "western" astrologers as opposed to Mayan schooolers/mystics ?

    What is happening in conventional astrology aparantly starting around 2012 is a square between Uranus and Pluto that has seven peaks aparantly, i think it lasts around 4 or 5 years, and this could well mean change, and also tense times. The first peak ive just looked up and is a day or two after summer solstice, June 2012.

    Im going to surf around some of the links you list on your site anyway, thanks.

    • Unsu...
       
      Well I have talked a lot about both questions... To the first one. I will explain a little bit more by what I mean... Mostly useing a Repost from 1 of my blogs...

      Dimensions are separated by vibration, much like radio frequencies, these different vibrations can exist in the same space without touching or interfering with one and another. A higher Vibration can perceive a lower one, but a lower Vibration cannot perceive a higher one. Classical Physics teaches the story of The Dot, The Line, and The Cube. Each one only able to perceive the one that came before it... so the Dot is unaware of the Line, The Line is unaware of the Cube, but the Cube is aware of them all. This represents the first 3 dimensions, a 4th would be time, and many argue we have been 4th Dimensional beings since the moment we began to measure time... But that is Classical Physics... Quantum Physics teaches us of the zero point field or quantum vacuum... that all matter is energy condensed to a slower vibration, that atoms are not solid and not only is reality an illusion of photon energy but it is subject to the will of consciousness.
      Now, there are in fact an Infinite number of dimensions. Just like a single NOTE of sound has 12 octaves and each octave has 12 semitones and an infinite number of harmonics in between... The Universe has 12 main octaves of vibration creating the 12 Dimensions of Physical Matter, each of these 12 Dimensions have 12 levels in between, Just like the Mayan Tzol'Kin the 13th level is the next step up... or next Dimension...

      Another misconception is that we live in the 3rd Dimension... This is only partly true, you actually live in multiple dimensions at once. Normally in a cord of harmonics... For example Most earth humans currently Live in their 3rd and 4th Density bodies, while they are either making or already have a 5th Density body. Think of a Super-Computer using wireless connections to control several other computers at once... All one needs to do is shift their consciousness from one level to another. Meditation and an understanding of the Chakra System will help you move your consciousness up... Using Universal Love and Compassion Through True Understanding you can raise your vibration to the highest levels of the multiverse...

      When some earth humans die, they go to the 7th Dimension... others may go to the 9th Dimension from were they are projecting themselves originally.

      From my understanding there is now consciousness even in the 2nd Dimension thanks to computers, AI, and the universes they can create.

      There is more in the blog... I would also like to add, the 5th Dimension is one of Light...

      in 1978 many things happened.... Most, not all, of the beings living here from Pleiades went home and into higher vibrational densities... Beings from the Andromeda Galaxy arrived and took up where the Pleiadeans left off, with helping the earth humans...
      The Sun changed it's fusion from combining 1 hydrogen and 1 helium to make carbon... to combining 1 carbon and 1 hydrogen to make nitrogen... We were all saved with an adjustment to the Dimensional Force Field that surrounds the planet... This also caused us to become 4th density... In 1998 Humanity achieved a high enough vibration to be fully 4th dimensional beings consciously and physically... The was a natural occurrence and a great step forward... Think of the Dimensional Consciousness like the Chakra System... 4th Density is often called Christ or Krishna Consciousness...

      I will see if I find what I wrote already in answer to your second question...
      • Unsu...
         
        Ah found it.... It was actually an answer to a different question.... but I think it will help...

        That simple question has a very complicated answer. Both dates are related to the precession of the equinoxes. 12.21.2012 is the end of the Baktun Long Count. A period of 13 Baktuns or 5,125.36 years is indicated on creation monuments as one 'World Age', 5 such 'World Ages' or about 25,627 years is equal to one full precession. It is not the end of the Mayan Calendar, but a specific marker. On that day the Winter Solstice Sun will pass through the area of the Galactic Center, an event that only happens once every 25,627. The Mayans were incredibly accurate...

        The main problem being the actual beginning of the Age of Aquarius. First the stars are not in the same place they were 26,000 ago, and the Zodiac was very different as well. The modern Zodiac is based on 12 signs, but there is a 13th sign known in ancient times, Ophiuchus or the Serpent Bearer. IF you use 26,000 years for 1 precession and divide that by 12 for the number of the Zodiacal signs you will get 2166.6, using 25,800 you will get 2150. The Birth of Jesus is the start of the western Gregorian Calendar. Jesus was the Avatar for the Sign of Pisces, so starting at the year 0 AD and then adding the time of one Age you will get the year the Age of Aquarius will begin...

        As you see, 2150 is a good guess... IF you use only 12 signs... IF you use 13 signs you will get 26000/13=2000, 25800/13=1984, 25750/13=1980. So yes they are related... One is highly accurate, has undergone no major changes, and has a reset to realign with the stars every 52 years... That would be the Living Mayan True Count Calendar... The other is highly inaccurate, based on calendars no longer in use, has undergone major changes many times, and never resets to keep up with the movement of the stars... So one can see why there might be some confusion... =P

        Some thing to note, 13 is a sacred number to the Maya, it was one of Ascension and Achieving high levels of vibration, the next step... or ring of the infinite spiral.
        • Unsu...
           
          If you use the 'Mayan' number for the number of years in a precession... 25,627 and divide it by 13 you get 1971...
          Another thing to remember is that each Age has a Dawn and a Dusk...
          • >>>in 1978 many things happened.... Most, not all, of the beings living here from Pleiades went home and into higher vibrational densities<<<

            oh, so that's why fashion took such a turn for the worse in the 80's~!! :-P
            • Unsu...
               
              lol, could be.
              • <<in 1978 many things happened.... Most, not all, of the beings living here from Pleiades went home and into higher vibrational densities>>

                Manjushri, can i ask where you source this knowledge from ? I have an open mind to this stuff, not saying i bleive it, not saying i dont, I would like to read more.

                Is there a good source on this kind of stuff ? What do you think of Icke ? I just cant make my mind up about him and his ideas.

                • Unsu...
                   
                  Well, I am currently writing several books, some of which has to do with the alternative history of our species and planet. So many sources... I am a Starseed and Contactee. But my books are not out yet, so other than checking my profile... which you could literally spend days reading and watching all the clips and links... I will list a few here...

                  First David Icke, I do in fact list him as a source... He has be getting better and better, as his own understanding of the information strengthens... He recently (meaning the last decade) came to america and studied with many masters here and researchers... From this his understanding has grown greatly and you now hear him talk about things you only heard from other researchers... Over all Great stuff... He is one of the top in the world and for sure one of the top in Europe. I have links to his website, were he details tons of info...

                  Jim Mars - Researcher/Writer
                  Great Researcher, everything from archeology to quantum physics.

                  Alex Collier - Contactee- great vid from 1994 in my profile... note what he was saying prior to 911.

                  Micheal Tsarion - Researcher
                  Tsarion is pretty new to the scene but has quickly shown himself to be one of the top people in the field. Extremely knowledgeable particularly in the areas of Atlantis/Lemuria and Astro-Theology/Sidereal Mythology.
                  Tsarion's links are in my profile, He has a DVD video Series 'Origins and Oracles' and a book "Alantis: Alien Visitation, Genetic Manipulation'

                  Jordon Maxwell - Researcher/Writer
                  One of the older researchers with numerous books under his belt... His understanding of Law/Politics/Governments tied to his Occult and Secret Society Knowledge is what makes him stand out.

                  John Major Jenkins - an independent researcher who has devoted himself to reconstructing ancient Mayan cosmology and philosophy. Since 1986, John has traveled to Mexico and Central America seven times. In 1990 he helped build a school in San Pedro, near Lake Atitlan in Guatemala. In 1994 he delivered relief supplies to a Quiché Maya community in the Western highlands of Guatemala. Since beginning his odyssey of research and discovery with the Maya, John has authored dozens of articles and many books, including:

                  Journey to the Mayan Underworld (Four Ahau Press, Boulder, CO: 1989)
                  Mirror in the Sky (Four Ahau Press, 1991)
                  Tzolkin: Visionary Perspectives and Calendar Studies (Borderland Sciences Research Foundation, Garberville, CA: 1992/1994)
                  Mayan Sacred Science (Four Ahau Press, Boulder, CO: 1994)
                  Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 (Bear & Company, Santa Fe, NM: 1998)

                  Amit Goswami - Quantum Physicist
                  Self Aware Universe: How Consciousness Create the Material World
                  Quantum Mechanics
                  Physics of the Sould: The Quantum Book of Living, Dyeing, Reincarnation, and Immortality.
                  Quantum Creativity
                  and more...
                  He is in the Movie 'What the Bleep Do We know?"
                  He was my Prof. @ the U of O here in Eugene... Great Man

                  John Lear - Test Pilot, Speed Record Holder, Researcher/Writer

                  The Disclosure Project... head by Dr. Steven Greer

                  Eric Von Daniken - Archeologist/Researcher/Writer

                  Zacharia Sitchin - Researcher/Writer
                  Earth Chronicle Series...

                  I guess that is a good start... And there is more in my profile of course...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    they didn't get the big pix
                    did you...?
                    all you have listed: are afraid of the...
                    dark
                    don't believe me
                    go ask them
                    and on your way
                    stop off at randys place...

                    • Unsu...
                       
                      Very few do get the big picture...
                      Most are afraid of the dark...
                      But that is part of my message...
                      They want to you fear. DO NOT BUY INTO IT!!!
                      We make our reality, We can change it at any time.
                      Share your information so others might get a bigger picture, we are all just pieces to the puzzle after all.
                      There is Truth every where, and in every thing, you just have to weed out all the bull shit.
                      And above all Love yourself and the universe around you.
                      Thanks for the comment on the Title... I changed it just slightly from the original poem/lyric.
                      Get your Mojo Rising, Keep on Rising, Rising Rising....
                      WHOOO!!!
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      i dont think anyone really knows trully whats going on beehind the scences except the people really controling the waves and releasing them to transformation rodger.... its kind of funny really. the truecontrolers of the next reality coming are sitting back having a smashing time living the simple life yet doing the biggest changes in a swipe here, smash there... who knew?bet you did.... rock on rodger...may the force keep rocking the world....till heaven comes to this earth...may peace be with you.......-x-s-
    • Unsu...
       
      Thank you...
      • Unsu...
         
        The best thing about astrology is that you do not have to quote other people at all. Dane was no astrologer, which is visible from his natal chart. He died never knowing the true position of his natal sun. He never knew his ascendant either.
        You do not have to imitate Kepler, Newton, Cassini, Hipparchus, Ptolemy or Galileo. What did they know? Their errors were still greater than those of the past. And today you are facing TWO SIGNS of error to start with. You are born into a world with false astrology. Even Derek Appleby can not help much. lulu.com/astrology

        P.S. perhaps Dane WROTE about astrology, but he never knew what happens in the sky, so he wrote amusing stuff, that's all. Keanu Reeves has the child within with Mercury in Sextans, that is the real sky Dane never knew. But he did not have to, since apart from people like Nostradamus, most writers never had astrological aspects. It is one in a million, so how could they have it? You can not walk to the store, buy any program, sit back and be an astrologer. That is absurd.
        • I like Dane Rudhyar. I think he was a great astrologer. Astrologers do not all use the same system, but that does not mean that only one system works!!! Astrology is illogical from the getgo, and i have no idea why any of it works, but i am forced to admit that it does because it does, and that in itself fascinates me.

          I don't think much of your sources, Manjushri, if you are relying on the likes of Tsarion, Icke, and Collier. What a huge pile of infoshit those fear mongers have spread.
        • Unsu...
           
          So true... This is taken from www.space.com/scienceastr..._000616.html


          Your Real Astrological Sign

          It's well known that President Ronald Reagan used a color-coded calendar to keep track of his astrological predictions. (Is this a good day for nuclear annihilation?) Scary stuff, especially considering that these predictions were based on the wrong sign! In fact, except for some slight overlap, almost no one's zodiacal sign is related to the actual position of the sun.

          Modern astrologers -- a term that may constitute an oxymoron -- classify an Aries as someone born between March 21 and April 19. You may see some significance in the first date. It marks the vernal equinox, the beginning of spring. Another, older name for the vernal equinox is the "first point of Aries." This spot in the sky is marked by a great "X" where the celestial equator (the imaginary projection of Earth's equator into space) crosses the ecliptic (the annual path of the sun). Spring in the Northern Hemisphere occurs when the sun moves north of the celestial equator after spending the winter months south of it.

          Some 2,600 years ago, this important point in the sky was indeed in the constellation Aries. Today, however, it has shifted to the west and now resides in Pisces. The mechanism responsible for this shift is the slight wobble in Earth's axis due to the gravitational tugs of the moon and sun.

          Over a period of 25,700 years, the wobble causes the vernal equinox to drift through the entire zodiac. After Pisces, the vernal equinox's next home constellation, around 2614 AD, is Aquarius. That's when the real "Age of Aquarius" begins.

          Traditional or "tropical" astrologers ignore this shift. They argue that where the vernal equinox is today is not as important as where it was. They claim that the areas of sky where the sun was over two thousand years ago still possess the same power and virtues. Thus Leo continues to represent strength, Aries determination, and so on.

          Another group, the sidereal astrologers, does take the shift into account, but they are largely considered mavericks by traditionalists.

          In the interest of promoting proper prognostication, I've used the Starry Night software to update the periods when the sun truly occupies each member of the zodiac (Ophiuchus included). Armed with this knowledge, you can now stop living the wrong future.

          Aries 4/19 to 5/13

          Taurus 5/14 to 6/20

          Gemini 6/21 to 7/20

          Cancer 7/21 to 8/10

          Leo 8/11 to 9/15

          Virgo 9/16 to 10/30

          Libra 10/31 to 11/22

          Scorpio 11/23 to 11/29

          Ophiuchus 11/30 to 12/17

          Sagittarius 12/18 to 1/19

          Capricorn 1/20 to 2/15

          Aquarius 2/16 to 3/11

          Pisces 3/12 to 4/18


          I happen to be Ophiuchus... If you could not guess...
          • Unsu...
             
            So was Mr. Mojo Rising.... James (Jim) Douglas Morrison... Serpent Handler...Ophiuchus.
            • Unsu...
               
              Precession dictates all change according to the precessed ascendant set. The REAL POSITIONS OF THE PLANETS are nowadays available, so pseudo-astrologers are exposed to criticism. It is a shame whet they have done to the planet in the 5000 years of darkness. No wonder LORD GOD forbade Chaldean astrology as non-precessed. The ascendant is a matter of precession, there are 16 ascendants at the present epoch. Nowadays you cant have Aries or Lepus ascending but at the time of King Arthur of Pharaoh Nechepso you could. There are only 16 ascendants today. A world about the zodiac, academic zodiac. Anyone can check for e.g. Moon in Auriga or Jupiter in Ophiuchus on Google Sky. There are also online planetariums that will help you determine the REAL ZODIACAL position of the planet in question. There are 22 zodiacal positions in all. The ascendant can also be determined with precision even by an amateur, especially by an amateur, e.g. Moon ascending in Cetus, Uranus ascending in Cetus or Eros Pluto conjunct, ascending in Cetus. Working with the REAL SKY means hovering aloof from superstition. lulu.com/astrology www.google.com/sky/ This everyone can check for precessed ascendant and local zodiac.
              • Unsu...
                 
                On November 23rd the sun is still in Libra, Sai Baba's birthday. Check the ephemeris on tribe.net
                astronuts.tribe.net/thread/f...564a50538
                • you know ive read the sideral - tropical thing before. I can see that the argument makes sense, yet i have followed my own chart and its transits and the thing is it just seems to work.

                  When pluto conjunct my sun cap 0 22, it was so intense to the day i cant disptute it, Alos 3 uranus opposite uranus hits i have in the last 18 months, ando ther transits ive felt them to the day.

                  I got seprated from my family for 7 months, and on the day i was flying over to hong kong to be ru-united, just before i was leaving fo the airport, someone told me it was a full moon that night, i looked up the moon, and low and behold, exact to the degree of my natal moon.

                  Now that must only occur around once every 30 years, whats the chances of that ?

                  No im convinced there is a lot in the traditional astrology, not sure how it works, but it just does.

                  Do you guys know what Dan Rudhyar and Liz Green have said about this ? I rate both of them very highly.
                • you know ive read the sideral - tropical thing before. I can see that the argument makes sense, yet i have followed my own chart and its transits and the thing is it just seems to work.

                  When pluto conjunct my sun cap 0 22, it was so intense to the day i cant disptute it, Alos 3 uranus opposite uranus hits i have in the last 18 months, ando ther transits ive felt them to the day.

                  I got seprated from my family for 7 months, and on the day i was flying over to hong kong to be ru-united, just before i was leaving fo the airport, someone told me it was a full moon that night, i looked up the moon, and low and behold, exact to the degree of my natal moon.

                  Now that must only occur around once every 30 years, whats the chances of that ?

                  No im convinced there is a lot in the traditional astrology, not sure how it works, but it just does.

                  Do you guys know what Dan Rudhyar and Liz Green have said about this ? I rate both of them very highly.
          • The removal of Orhpiucus, 45 books in the Bible (including the extremely important Gospel according to Mary Magdalene), as well the Solfeggio, the ancient calendars, the reloation of the Alexandrian library to the Vatican (speculative though likely) as well Sacred Geometry and Phiometry, these are all part of the Vatican's suppression of spiritual power available to the masses. The picture was folded in half and the other half, diagrammatically speaking, was known to small secret groups that began to unravel after Akhenaten's short Dynasty.

            These people have manifested differently during the past 3.5 millennia and are mostly diluted at this time. The power is returning to the entire planet, naturally, especially those who are unfettered by strong intellectual biases, generally known as the meek and generally understood as those who will inherit the Earth.

            There are a select few who are remembering, mostly by surrendering, and I believe you when you say and imply that you are having this experience. We and you are trained though with a Classical mind. It's my opinion that the real challenge is to invoke our presence without the traditional way of rationalizing and thinking. In other words, think with the heart and to see with the pineal; an inter-dimensional portal.

            When a person speaks the Truth, nobody asks for references. Ever notice that?
            • Unsu...
               
              Ophiuchus... I happen to be one...

              "When a person speaks the Truth, nobody asks for references. Ever notice that? "

              Nope, They Ask all the Time....

              What I do notice though... Is the Truth Does not Need Some One to Support it...
              It Supports Itself...
              • Unsu...
                 
                Ophiuchus... I happen to be one...

                "When a person speaks the Truth, nobody asks for references. Ever notice that? "

                Nope, They Ask all the Time....

                What I do notice though... Is the Truth Does not Need Some One to Support it...
                It Supports Itself...

                _____________

                i agree. many things can't be proved.. especially of the etherical realms.
  • ~~ We are currently ~~

    • don't worry, i'll wait.
      • i pulled into nazeruth
        was feeling about half past dead
        i just need some place where i can
        lay my head
        hey mister...
        can you tell me?
        where a man might find a bed
        he just grinned and shook my hand
        no, was all he said

        bullets?

        the weight, continues...
        • Unsu...
           
          you have my attention...where is randy...i haven't stopped by his house...
          • sorry to bug you
            and i cannot even find the thread i was talking about
            for some odd reason i think everybody reads all posts
            duh
            why am i even asking you.......................

            what is your take on 9-11?

            and then there is that chon character
            he found a video about randy weaver
            after i brought the issue to lite
            someday i 'll find it
            i was taken, as i said before, by the title of your thread
            you have shown your range of intelligence
            when i see this thread it is hard to not think of r.w.
            he was an ex green beret who lived in the mountains with his family
            wife
            and children
            let me not bore you
            they, the government,
            shot his wife in the face
            and his young son in the back
            stupid subject for saturday,
            if i was not so lazy i would erase this entire post andgo
            back to bed
            but it is saturday morning, and just like a kid
            hope to get some play time in
            damn, its great to be ALIVE
            at least
            for
            the
            time
            being

            2012?
            i will try not to bother you with frivualous sp? again, but do not bank on it
            what is your take on the federal reserve system...
            • Unsu...
               
              Ah know...I have seen nothing on Randy... I will check that out...

              9/11...

              Well I just posted Loose Change Final Cut on my profile... (I had 2nd ED up) I think that about cover how I feel about it...
              As too the Why? There is Fog of War, Why We Fight, and Money Masters: International Bankers...(as to the Reserver System...)...
              I also have the full Eisenhower Farewell Speech... OH and watch the History Channel special on Secret Societies I got up... It makes me Laugh.... Daniel Pipes...LMAO... get got a promotion in the CFR after that interview...

              2012... Indeed... A focal point for this forum...
              I have blogged and posted a bit on this... I think the date is not as important as how you live your life on your path to this date. The world does not end... But the World Age does... The date is just a marker... The cosmic event and it's timings are simply amazing... Part of a natural bio-rhythm of the planet... Designed to evolve the symbiotes and kill off the parasites...

              The international Banks control the wealth of the world... Including ours... They are in turn controlled by the Royal Bloodlines... Dating back to the time of Summer... Age old...
              • The idea that there are royal bloodlines that have controlled events and are part reptilian flies in the face of the entire fields of history and biology. I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my mind around the evident fact that some people actually believe this.
                • Unsu...
                   
                  The Bloodlines actually is supported by modern Genealogy and genetic studies.. There are numerous books on the subject including ones about American Politics... George Bush for example is directly related to Windsor British Royal Family...

                  solarstation.think-aboutit.com/co...htm
                  www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mero...2.htm

                  Hilary Clinton is Bloodlines... and So is Barak Obama... Obama is one Bush's more distant Cousins...

                  As far as the reptilian thing goes... that is a huge mis-understanding... most have know clue what David Icke, Tsarion, Credo Mutwa or Hopi Native/Navajo Natives, Mayans, Buddhists....ect..ect. are talking about...
                  Think about the Dimensions... and how you can not perceive the next higher one with out special help...
                  These Bloodlines are Human... just as human as you or me.... LOL
                  Your DNA are scalar wave antenna... The Bloodlines DNA has a slight difference that allows these beings on high planes to control the HUMAN BODIES of these people... Now when people see shapeshifting... Such as with Native American Shamen.... You are actually seeing the energy bodies of the higher dimensional beings... Not there 3rd or 4th density bodies...which are in fact human...
                  That is also how shamens shapeshift... We live in the higher realms... Normally picking an animal that we know intimately and have spent a large amount of time with... Understanding the Quantum/Holographic Nature of Reality... Of Maya...

                  Anyway... Point is it is actually well documented... and having studied both history and biology I can say confidently that modern research only confirms the Bloodlines existence... If you would like a list of research material I can offer some... But It is all over the internet these days....
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Well documented that people are kin to each other to a remarkable degree, but not well documented that there is even the smallest shred of truth to the reptilian bloodline thing.

                    As for Bush and Obama being cousins, i found this:

                    "George W. Bush and Obama, meanwhile, are 10th cousins once removed - linked through a 17th century Massachusetts couple, Samuel Hinckley and Sarah Soole, according to the Sun-Times."

                    Do you imagine YOU are somehow more distant kin to these same people, or that you are no kin at all. It is estimated that the most recent common ancestor for all europeans lived only 1000 years ago, and we went back over 350 years for the obama bush connection. Go back 350 years, or even close, and you have a LOT of cousins.

                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      Indeed...

                      But... that is not the point... The Bush - Obama thing is stretching it... And I personally think it is not important...

                      But as far as every one being tied to these Bloodlines... That simply isn't true... Other than the fact some scientists believe we have found a genetic Eve... Or if you go back far enough we are all from Africa...

                      I am talking about Bush having direct ties to Royal Bloodlines... The common interbreeding of these bloodlines... Both are scientifically proven...

                      Back to the reptilian thing...

                      We do all in fact have reptilian DNA... That is a proven fact... You have DNA from all the animals your cells evolved from... Your vertebra use the same genetic code as the spiral on a snail shell or segments on a worm... Your Hair and Nails are the same material as that shell, and what makes up the most of the bulk in trees... See my point? Genetics are more universal than you may think... And as has been recently posted in tribe... maybe geneticists believe we have Alien DNA... We have entire alternate systems with in our DNA, locked in the so-called junk DNA...

                      Of Course that is not what you want to know... Your more talking about the Alien factor... Once again... That whole thing is a huge mis-understanding...

                      Reptilian Aliens are a hybrid Race of Draconian and Earth REPTILES.... NOT HUMANS... Period (though I admit THEY may have some HUMAN DNA) ...LOL... NOT to be confused with Galactic Reptilians that come form other stars altogether... They however are not the ones everyone is talking about...

                      The so called 'Reptilian Humans' are a Draconian/HUMAN Hybrid... Period...

                      They should be called Draconian Hybrids... See what I mean about a huge mis-understanding...

                      Back to the DNA scalar wave antenna...

                      These Beings are Human...
                      David Icke agrees with me here... so does Tsarion...
                      The people on YouTube are just stupid... with their 'snakeskin' Photoshop morphs... kinda pisses me off....
                      Don't know why people... Even Educated people... Still believe that kind of rubbish...

                      So one last time... Reptilians are
                      1... Not really Aliens.. They were Developed on Earth By Draconians...
                      2... Not Humans.... Nor are they the Above World Figures like Bush... Reptilians are the Chitahuri spoken of by the Zu Lu...Naga spoken of in the Vedas...
                      3... Above ground figures like Bush are in fact Human... Though they only display their more cold blooded emotions... They are not any more reptilian than anyone else... However they are more Draconian... and have unlocked DNA that allows them to be remote controlled from higher dimensions...

                      I hope that helps...
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        Maybe It is because I am a Pseudo-Schizophrenic Native American... (see my comments on the Kundalini/Schizophrenia connection)... I grew up with these stories...

                        Taken from www.reptilianagenda.com/resear...a.shtml

                        Ancient references to reptiles and serpents

                        Several ancient peoples all over the world have described reptilian beings. There are historical accounts about reptiloids devouring human children, and also tales of Serpents of Wisdom enlightening Humankind (such as the story of Gukumatz). Cecrops, first King of Athens was said to have been half man, half snake.

                        In India, extensive histories exist regarding the Naga, a Reptilian race said to live underground and interact with the kings and others on the surface. These beings were said to have once lived on a continent in the Pacific Ocean which sank beneath the waves. This is a recurring story throughout the world. Indian histories also refer to a Reptilian race called the "Sarpa" who founded civilisation, creating the cannibalistic Dravidians, being the source of the Hindu caste system (based upon a Draconian caste hierarchy, apparently), and demanded human sacrifice. A Nordic race was said to have created the Aryans, and when the two peoples combined, they formed the beginnings of Indian civilisation. Ancient Sanscrit texts also refer to spacecraft and aircraft called Vimana. Nuclear debris has been found in regions said to be destroyed by 'the gods' in Kashmir and other locations throughout the Indian peninsula.

                        The Hopi refer to a race of Reptilians called the Sheti, or Snake-Brothers, who live underground. The Cherokee and other American Indian peoples also refer to Reptilian races, as well as their origins in Atlantis The Chinese, Japanese and Europeans extensively speak throughout their history of beings such as Dragons (both physical and non-physical forms thereof), Dracul (devil-dragon humanoids), Vampires, Kappa, and others. The first Emperor of China, Huang-Ti, was said to be part Dragon, and was said to be born looking like a Reptilian. It was also said that his mother was impregnated by a beam of light emanating from the star Alpha Draconis, which Stewart Swerdlow and others claim is the home star system of the Draco Reptilian species.

                        The Mayans speak of a Reptilian species, referred to often as "Iguana-Men", who descended from the sky to take control of their civilisation, teaching them the art of pyramid building as well as demanding human sacrifice.

                        Throughout the world, in apparently unconnected societies, the belief pervades that a Reptilian race lives beneath the Earth and interacts with the surface. In most cases another race, tall and "Nordic" in appearance, is described. These were the "Elves" of European lore. The Reptilians were often described as having a caste hierarchy, in which the highest caste was winged. This correlates with information from current abductees, contactees and former government employees who have disclosed information regarding alien interaction with Earth-governments.

                        In Africa, the Zulu shamans bear extensive esoteric knowledge of a race of reptilians who they say control the Earth--called the Chitahuri. They also have accounts of a Reptilian race who created Blacks and used them to work their gold mines, extremely similar to the accounts described in the Sumerian tablets.

                        In Sumeria ten thousand tablets have been found and translated which refer to an alien race which created a race of humans to work as slaves in their mines in Africa. This race is called the "Anunnaki", or the "Abbennakki", and it specifically states that the "Black-headed" people of Sumeria were created by these beings. The royalty was said to be a combination between "Dragons" and humans.

                        In China and Japan underground bases where the Dragon Kings live are referred to, as well as the lineage of humans from a race of 'Dragons'. (there are also many other reptilian races referred to, such as the Kappa).

                        In Australia the aborigines speak of a reptilian race which lives underneath the Earth and governs over men. The Aboriginal chiefs have spoken of going into the Earth where these beings resided. There they claim there is extensive technology. The Aborigines say that they are descended from a race of dragon-humans that once lived on an enormous continent that spanned the entire Pacific ocean, and that most of it sank beneath the waves in ancient times, but that Australia is a remnant of it, and this is why there are so many reptilian animals there.

                        In Pythagoras' life there may have been events related to serpents, particularly winged and speaking serpents, as well as a massive beast called Python, a giant serpent for which he may have been named. Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson and Philip K. Dick all have called themselves Pythagoreans. However, Wilson is known for stating various forms of conspiracy theory (he is also a high-level initiate of Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis), Dick's possible mental illness is covered in more detail below, and Leary is widely known to have consumed copious amounts of hallucinogens.

                        In the Middle-East, Reptilian beings ranging from certain Jinn to Dragons and Serpent-Men, have been spoken of since ancient times. In the Bible, the Nephilim are alluded to as being Reptilian, and in the related Book of Jasher, a serpent race is described. King Og of Bashan, a reputed Repha (giant) is called a "Serpent", and Bashan itself means "Serpent" in Ancient Hebrew. This could refer to the Sumerian-influenced worship of serpents and dragon-like creatures which pervaded the Canaanite people before the Israelites entered that region. The Israelites recorded that the former inhabitants of Canaan were "Serpents", "Repha'im", "Nephilim" and "Anakim".

                        Procopius of Caesaria, arguably the most important historical source on the Justinian period in Byzantine history, recounted in his Secret History that Emperor Justinian and his wife, Theodora, were "Dracul" (a word meaning both Dragon and Devil), and that several people had reportedly seen them either shapeshift into demonic-like beings, or associating with non-human beings, particularly one referred to as "The King of the Devils", a being most often portrayed as reptilian, with horns and wings.

                        Many ancient peoples worshipped a serpent-Goddess called El or Hel, which was considered the God-Goddess of the Underworld, the Moon, and Venus. These three locations (underground, the Moon, and Venus) are all described by abductees, former covert government employees, and the like, as being major bases for a reptilian species from the Draco star system who have been involved with this planet for at least two million years.

                        Modern claims

                        Erich von Daniken theorises that extraterrestrials have influenced human history for millennia, and that they may have influenced human evolution.

                        Philip K. Dick, a science fiction writer, wrote about contact with three-eyed amphibious beings from Sirius and their connection to the Soviets and the Illuminati. This was described in his book, VALIS. PKD claimed to have connected these creatures to the Nommo, a mythological belief held by the Dogon tribe of Mali. It is a subject of some debate as to whether or not PKD was suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy. His wife allegedly claimed that he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at one point in his life. It is unknown whether his reptilian beliefs were due to a brain disorder, the ingestion of pain killers, his fondness for methamphetamine and entheogens, or a combination of all three.

                        Christine Fitzgerald, a confidante of Diana, Princess of Wales, claims that Diana told her that the Royal Family had a connection to Reptilian aliens, and that they could shapeshift.

                        Sir Laurence Gardner, a Jacobite Genealogist, Historian, Knight, and holder of many other titles (which some are sceptical of the validity of), claims that a "Dragon Bloodline", a "Graal", was created in ancient Sumeria when reptilian aliens called "Anunnakki" descended upon the region and created a royal bloodline through genetic engineering.

                        David Icke claims that people see reptilian humanoids or dinosauroids, and that reptilian species are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy directed at the manipulation and control of humanity. According to Icke, hypothetical dinosauroids resemble one type of reptilian entity that people see during alleged encounters. Icke theorises that the reptilians evolved on this planet from dinosaurs or other reptile-like ancestors, and were the original tool-making race to evolve on Earth. Like most conspiracy theories, falsification of Icke's hypotheses is nearly impossible, but Icke continues to sell books and give speaking engagements based on concepts from the New Age and neofascism.

                        Timothy Leary claimed to have contact with three-eyed beings from Sirius.

                        Credo Mutwa, a Zulu shaman, claims that the Zulu people have known of a reptilian species called the Chitauli for centuries. He is the official historian of the Zulu people. He mentions amphibious beings from Sirius in his book, Song of the Stars.

                        Cathy O'Brien, a victim of CIA MKULTRA mind-control, claims to have seen George Bush shapeshift into a Reptilian being. She rationalised this as potentially being a holographic illusion.

                        Paul Shockley, a self-professed psychic, also speaks of malevolent reptilian beings. However, he explains that he does not believe that all reptilians are malevolent, and that there are benevolent members of this species as well.

                        Zecharia Sitchin, an archaeologist and linguist specialising in the Sumerian and Hebrew languages, claims that an ancient race of extraterrestrials, the Anunnaki, genetically engineered the original humans, and that they probably still exist in some form or another, with some degree of influence over humankind. These beings are speculated by Sitchin to be either reptilian, quasi-reptilian, or amphibious, from ancient description.

                        Stewart Swerdlow, a gifted mentalist, claims to possess extensive knowledge of alien intervention in Earth-human society, and describes in detail the activities of a Reptilian race called the Draco, originating in the Draco star system. He also mentions a more benevolent Reptilian race called the Abbennakki, which, he says, created the Black race in Africa. He claims that this is supported by ancient Sumerian tablets, as well as the histories of the indigenous peoples of Africa, such as the Zulu, as well as physical evidence such as ancient mines which have been discovered by the Anglo-American company, dating to 60,000 years B.C.

                        Prince Nicholas de Vere claims to be descended from an "unbroken Dragon-Bloodline" originating in Ancient Sumeria when an interdimensional Reptilian race created the first blueblood humans, the "Aryans" as he calls them.

                        Robert Anton Wilson writes about the Illuminati in the Illuminatus trilogy and other books. The book,Cosmic Trigger: The Final Secret of the Illuminati describes his drug-induced experiences with three-eyed beings from Sirius.

                        Joking References to Reptilians

                        On September 12, 2003, during the provincial election campaign in Ontario, Canada, a press release disseminated by the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party contained a line at the end that referred to rival Ontario Liberal Party leader Dalton McGuinty as an evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet. The release was not intended seriously, but did no good for the Conservative party campaign.
                        Peculiar Mentions of Reptilians

                        An article appeared in the Chicago Tribune, March 1, 1995, regarding an event in which George Bushnell, head of the American Bar Association, called the Republicans "Reptilian Bastards". Quote from the article: "The atmosphere in the litigation debate is getting as poisonous as the atmosphere in, well, litigation itself. Eighty-two House members have now called on George Bushnell, Jr., president of the 370,000-lawyer American Bar Association, to resign after he described the Republican leadership of Congress as "those reptilian bastards."

                        Conspiracy theories

                        There are many conspiracy theories centered around, or at least involving, extraterrestrials of reptilian lineage. Many of these posit that the so-called Greys (fictional creatures from another planet in the 1977 film Close Encounters of the Third Kind, since adopted as the archetypal extraterrestrial) are in fact reptiles, and should be categorized as "Reptoids".

                        David Icke claims, based on his exploration of genealogical connections to European royalty, that many presidents of the United States have been reptilian humanoids. In his view, United States foreign policy after September 11 is the product of a reptilian conspiracy to enslave humanity, with George W. Bush as its key player. (See also Bush family conspiracy theory.) Some conspiracy theorists claim to have worked out a "dichotomy of axes" involved in hypothetical interplanetary and intergalactic conflict, and place the reptilians in an evil "Draconian" "axis", while humans are one of the species that belongs in an opposing "Evadamic" "axis". Several other entities and parties have been placed into this conspiracy theory, with some players who switch allegiances between Draconian and Evadamic.

                        The Nazi-friendly, subterranean flying saucer-riding super race depicted in Vril: The Power of the Coming Race is sometimes associated with accounts of reptilian humanoids.

                        None of these "theories" have ever been validated by any scientifically credible research.
                        Reptilian humanoids in fiction

                        The Conan the Barbarian and King Kull stories by Robert E. Howard pitted their heroes on occasion against a race of serpent people; this race's background was greatly expanded upon during the development of the Cthulhu Mythos, with a history stretching into the dinosaur era.

                        Ancient reptilian races known as the Silurians and Sea Devils appear in the Doctor Who series.

                        Presumably in reference to Credo Mutwa's Chitauli and many of the conspiracies mention above, Marvel Comics' The Ultimates written by Mark Millar and with art by Bryan Hitch features updated versions of the villainous Skrull race called Chitauri. They have shape-changing abilities and have orchestrated various conspiricaies to exterminate the human race, the most successful of these plots was the rise of the Nazi party in Germany.

                        In the television series V, the aliens are reptilian creatures who disguise themselves in a complete covering that resembles human skin.

                        Reptilian humanoids in games

                        In the fictional Dungeons & Dragons fantasy universe, there are several species of reptilian, amphibian and fish-like humanoids. These include lizard-men (or lizard-folk), the weak, dog-like kobolds, the serpentine yuan-ti, the aquatic sahuagin, locathah and kuo-toa, and various types of half-dragons such as the draconian.

                        Lizardmen are a prominent race in the Warhammer Fantasy Battle wargame.

                        In the popular video game X-COM, Reptoids, or "Snakemen", are the foot soldiers for an alliance of genetically altered extra-terrestrial beings bent on the subjugation and control of Earth.
                        • Unsu...
                           
                          Also Remember Tolken Based His Lord of the Rings Series on Nordic/Celtic Legend... The Dwarfs were a real Race called the Picts... They lived in ancient scotland/ireland and at one point, most of europe... They are famous for their Heather Honey Ale... Were the Norse in legend and in reality stole their recipe for Honey Mead from... Read the Norse Legend, in a new light...
                        • Manjushri, your writing is exceptional and tight, though I maintain a tight exception.

                          From your own words and understanding, DNA is a scalar wave antenna.

                          This means that DNA is a non physical potentiality until is combines with cosmic energy.

                          Scalar waves describe an etheric multiverse comprised, as you say, by many dimensions which are separated by resonant frequencies. Some higher frequency beings dwell in the lower realms as teachers and sages traveling between but most of the others do not see 'up'.

                          Further, DNA is not recursive. Bruce Lipton has clinically proven this. This means unquestionably that our presence is acquired. This also means that DNA is created in the field and not in the lab. This implies that our thoughts and feelings that inform the field are rewriting our DNA co-Creatively with God. This means that the field from which presence emerges is the sum total of thoughts and feelings capable of persisting within a given range of energies despite being dispersed infinitely across all scales of reality at once (a paradox relative to linear logic). Bashar? This also implies that an individual soul is simultaneously manifest across many or all dimensions at once and each aspect has a unique conscious experience.

                          There is no such thing as a bloodline via DNA hoarding though there may be a narrow band (dimension) that is controlled by the elites like the FCC controls phone, radio and television bandwidths. The elites relations in power was a result of a fear that the masses might revolt shortly after the French Revolution (I think) so they put cousins in front of the mobs rather than the Queen bee. Relatives were carefully selected not unlike the domestication of animals.

                          Chaos theory guarantees that any attempt to preempt the womb or the primacy of Gaia as Earth's only context will result in a reordering of a higher magnitude therefore births and blood cannot be controlled. Only the results. Royal Bloodline etiquette 101!

                          A bloodline means therefore that the physical offspring from birth can be coaxed to understand esoteric traditions, and the field from which they emerge is indeed their parents, which may be a narrow field, but purity eventually becomes muddled and hybridization inherently results.

                          Careful not to give too much credit where credit is not due. Test your own arguments by asking stupid questions rather than getting trapped by proving yourself to others to be correct. I say this to myself all the time.

                          We are writing the story including the intrigue of an elite group that provides an exotic scapegoat that oops, became reality, because we conspired to understand an assumed conspiracy. This is also true for aliens.

                          Are we writing a new story, discovering the old story or rebuilding the old story into a new story that allows ideas that higher dimensional science implies might be true?

                          The Milky Way is the Oroborus. We are all Reptilian from this perspective, a very BIG picture.

                          • pp:*Careful not to give too much credit where credit is not due. Test your own arguments by asking stupid questions rather than getting trapped by proving yourself to others to be correct. I say this to myself all the time. *
                            yes,
                            and keep a mirror close by
                            bruce lipton: have you a synopsis?
                            but please skip the recursive part
                            dna?
                            it was really good till you mentioned bashar
                            cat's asleep, bashar 'channels'
                            what about the dog?

                            surely, dmt must bore you
                            have you ever actually fasted? and for how long?
                            i think you may have a handle on sleep deprivation

                            *Bruce Lipton has clinically proven this.*
                            yeah, that's what they said about chemotherapy and radiation for cancer too

                            click the heels three times...
                            no, stupid
                            set the alarm
                            set the alarm
                            set the alarm

                            beer break
                            no, i lied
                            ok, half truth?
                          • Unsu...
                             
                            Very good Stuff...

                            "This also implies that an individual soul is simultaneously manifest across many or all dimensions at once and each aspect has a unique conscious experience."

                            Yes, You are Projecting/Manifesting yourself from a Transcendental Space... (From OUTSIDE ALL of TIME and Space)... This means you live all your life times simultaneously... All of them All and All At Once...

                            "The Milky Way is the Oroborus."

                            Yes, I love to look at that... You can see it fairly well with google earth.

                            "We are all Reptilian from this perspective, a very BIG picture."

                            Earth Humans all have a Reptilian Part of The Brain...
                            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_brain

                            A study of evolutionary biology and embryology will tell you this as well as the fossil record...

                            • I wish to add further evidence that there is NO SUCH THING as a Reptilian race.

                              No matter where in the universe one may speculate that 'anything is possible', the laws of the universe are being applied here to so 'as below so above' if you get my drift.

                              Even an attempt to hybridize would be limited to the energy of the planet in question.

                              Emotion is a vehicle for spiritual attainment. A reptile's constitution could not achieve this and could never be manifest in higher consciousness for this reason and would not be used for DNA splicing for this reason, unless, there was an attempt to dumb down a race which would make new hybrids less conscious and servile rather than non emotive with skills.

                              The DNA coding would turn off if not harmonically compatible with either the place or the original humanoid etc..

                              The amazing David Wilcock mentions a few juicy tidbits in his video called the 2012 ENIGMA.
                              video.google.com/videoplay

                              Listen from 23:10 - 23:45 regarding his thinking (and mine) re serpeant people. You may wish to listen a few minutes longer to see evidence of the pineal in nearly every ancient culture suggesting their knowledge of the conscious resonating capacity of the pineal gland and kundalini energy. This is why Tsarion refers to the Vatican as a Saturnian Cult given the symbolism that follows Sumeria and Babylonia. I think rather we are all Sumerians in this sense wearing Greek and Roman disguises due to the diempowering allegories that pineal power was converted into.

                              To create a reptilian race to excuse our impotence does not cut it for me. This is where self-responsibility comes in and how we can help each other at this crucial time. There are windows of time that provide CRITICAL access to cosmic energy. The reptilians are a filter that will mediate 'access' not unlike the effect of any religion. I do not agree with David Icke for this reason and even his mentor Jordan Maxwell has created distance but they are both dark in their story-telling.

                              How may we max cosmic conscious awareness if we are wearing armour when it arrives. Ideas are armour too! And BTW, it's already here!

                              Our timelines are mangled from linear constructions that if not careful including the presumption that something BIG will happen in December of 2012, we will wake up in 2013 and the party will be over for the next 26,000 years.

                              Now, no filters, naked and brave and especially, no ego.

                              The rising of the kundalini is the serpeant Manjushri. Of course the serpeant would be personified but to suggest that there is a humanoid serpeant or dragon race I feel is impossible.

                              There seem to be many races of off-world entities that are coming to light at this time including the greys which some say are energy beings wearing grey suits. This makes sense because the vibe and atmosphere might require this. Maybe Wilcock is correct that the headdress was seen as serpeant like.

                              I hope this makes sense.
                              • Unsu...
                                 
                                Makes wonderful Sense... I disagree... But makes wonderful sense... I do believe in physical reptilian races of beings... For my own reasons... It took me a very long time to sort it all out... and understand... I also agree with what you said...

                                "Emotion is a vehicle for spiritual attainment. A reptile's constitution could not achieve this and could never be manifest in higher consciousness for this reason and would not be used for DNA splicing for this reason, unless, there was an attempt to dumb down a race which would make new hybrids less conscious and servile rather than non emotive with skills. "

                                BINGO!!!

                                Reptilian though is just a general term... Unlike Tsarion I do Believe the Draconian Race to be Physically like Dragons. I Also believe that what many call Reptilian Aliens are Hybrids from Draconian and Earth Reptile DNA... I also Believe there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of Reptilian Races of Beings... Some Advanced some Not... In this Galaxy.

                                I got that Clip in my profile... In the Links Section... with a link to his web site as well... Great stuff... I posted it awhile back for a thread on the Calcification of the Pineal Gland...

                                "The rising of the kundalini is the serpeant Manjushri. Of course the serpeant would be personified but to suggest that there is a humanoid serpeant or dragon race I feel is impossible."

                                I agree the Kundalini is a symbolic Serpent... However, I Believe There is are Dragon Races... As well as Serpent Races... Ect. Ect.

                                I agree to Disagree...
                                • "I agree the Kundalini is a symbolic Serpent... However, I Believe There is are Dragon Races... As well as Serpent Races... Ect. Ect."

                                  My view is the converse which is damned intriguing!

                                  "I agree to Disagree..."

                                  Honest question, do you truly believe or have you just put so much time into the book project that you must stick to the initial argument?

                                  Somehow I feel that this will all get answered soon.

                                  Re your research Manjushri, I think that Swerdlow is a very questionable character who speaks of 'getting out'. Nobody gets out once indoctrinated. He speaks extensively of mind control and triggers. He is living proof that for a select few it's true. His message is fear. To fear is to worship. I say ignore this guy which is further supported by the misinformation in his books. Historically many are told 90% truth and 10% hogwash so that illumination remains inaccessible. I feel that's what he is about.
                                  • Unsu...
                                     
                                    'My view is the converse which is damned intriguing! "

                                    LOL, I thought so too.

                                    "Honest question, do you truly believe or have you just put so much time into the book project that you must stick to the initial argument? "

                                    At first... I just studied with an open mind. The more I experienced, the more I believed. I suppose even with everything I have seen and heard... Even with my own eyes and ears... I could be completely wrong... I admit that.

                                    Swerdlow... I just now checked him out... Did I cite Him? 13 Cubed... Mind-Conrol & Programming... hmmm. I will check it out more...

                                    I am more talking about 1984, Brave New World, Strange Gods...,Trance-Formation of America ( www.conspiracyresearch.org/foru...x.php ) Ect. ect.
                                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

                                    mcrais.googlepages.com/index0.htm
                                    www.firecommunications.com/mcontrol/

                                    Cathy O'Brian and Arizona Wilder...
                                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_O%27Brien
                                    video.google.com/videosearch

                                    Do not buy Fear... Do not Manifest Fear... Do not Sell Fear... There is Nothing to Fear...
                                    Fear is the mind killer...

                                    The Power Elite Fear Us... A well informed and motivated public... And if you are informed... How can you not be motivated?
                                    • i am more inclined to believe cathy o'brien than arizona wilder. are they in the same nutshell? my hunch says no...
                                      • Unsu...
                                         
                                        Both talked about George Bush Jr... being a Reptilian... According to Cathy O'Brien, he shapeshifted in front of her, then told her very literally that he was actually an Alien Being, that they control the world... but no one suspects anything because they CAN look human... They are in the Same Nut Shell.. Both Victims of Mind Control... Like poor Mia here...
                                        • pp:*Both Victims of Mind Control... Like poor Mia here...*
                                          Sat, July 5, 2008 - 1:12 PM

                                          not to get too personal here, so any may reply at their discretion
                                          if this mind control being so, it should be known who her controller is/was?
                                          when *they* are through with you, are you left to wander/spin?
                                          do you believe she is currently under direct influence?
                                          you have suggested some kind of intervention. would this have to be initiated by mia?

                                          • Unsu...
                                             
                                            when *they* are through with you, are you left to wander/spin?

                                            _________

                                            roger, i believe this is when one is completely taken over by another entity. not unlike demonic possession. these just happen to be "aliens"

                                            so... you're not there anymore. you're gone and you don't even know it. your soul and spirit have left and the void has been filled with them. they think like you do, feel, etc... that's the concerning part. they mold themselves into your own being.. to become you.

                                            there are alot of people that fall into this category and have no earthly idea what's going on. i am told that this is becoming a real problem with humanity at this time.

                                            one thing that i have been able to do in my travels is to open people up and see what's inside. people have all sorts of stuff inside themselves. i look at many in high levels of goverment... there are many, many dragons residing in people. i never saw that a year ago. there's been an upshift of sort.
                                        • Unsu...
                                           
                                          Both talked about George Bush Jr... being a Reptilian... According to Cathy O'Brien, he shapeshifted in front of her, then told her very literally that he was actually an Alien Being, that they control the world... but no one suspects anything because they CAN look human... They are in the Same Nut Shell.. Both Victims of Mind Control... Like poor Mia here...

                                          ____________

                                          i've known that bush hasn't been bush since early last year.

                                          it's not him.
                                    • pp:*The Power Elite Fear Us... *
                                      Tue, June 24, 2008 - 8:31 PM

                                      really?
                                      what planet are you on? or were you on, or maybe will be on...?
                                      you did astound me with your knowledge on astro physics, but beyond that
                                      imho
                                      maybe you also know lots about kirby vacuum cleaners

                                      i have to admit, this tribe thing is far more fascinating than i ever thought possible
                                      maybe you should take a look over at the survivalist tribe
                                      anis don't need cable to read...
                                      try reading the fox network news by scott
                                      and tell us, most illuminated one
                                      what you think
                                      cuz part 2, the worst, was never shown on tv
                                      but it happened...

                                      ON THE ROAD TO 2012
                                      • "The Power Elite Fear Us"

                                        Roger, I agree with this statement. This is why the many suppressive tactics were imposed in the first place.

                                        A fearful populace can be controlled.

                                        The fact that people are paying attention more than ever, this is a threat to control. Why are the gas prices and food prices so high? Maybe as an alternate imposition of fear because other scare tactics are not working and threats of terrorism has engendered unity rather than fear. The elite believe themselves to be managing the ignorant masses and that they are deserving of life's greatest gifts, which reminds me of the Fraternities and Sororities in college frankly LOL, so when large groups show signs of organized dissension, fear abounds.

                                        Pay attention to little things like the many private groups who are working on clean air, and alternative food production, and green products and infiltrating government jobs with enlightened trainees and a shift to self sufficiency and social responsibility and generally being pissed off by the betrayal. It's everywhere I look, including folks whom in the past I would consider to be conservative. The self proclaimed elites have been operating for thousands of years without much competition and now they have become diluted and their system of control are failing. Nobody wants to destroy a world that they wish to control despite the many ridiculous doomsayers cries to the contrary. Spirituality is the key. I am extremely optimistic.
                                      • Unsu...
                                         
                                        in a sense the powers that be are afraid.

                                        why do they hide in secrecy?

                                        what would happen / does happen when people find out? on a small scale it's easy for them to deal with. on a larger scale.. well it's war time and they don't want that out in the open. what is war to them?

                                        national security and classified.... words being dropped around like candy. does that bother anyone? it does me. what about area 51? why can't i put one of my toes on their piece of land.. literally. are they there because they found a few aliens 50 years ago that crashed? i'd say not. these are all questions that people should be asking.


                                        and another thing worth pondering is this...

                                        if the other aliens that are shifing in and out of our dimensions are not afraid of us then why don't they just land? this sneaking around stuff sounds like terrorists who are not strong enough to deal in the open... not yet anyways.

                                        we're further along in our technology than most realize.

                                        i've never been a conspiracy theorist, nor one prone to attacks. experiencing this first hand of course changes all that.
                                        call it psychotic, call it whatever you want. i'm under attack and i travel & see whether i want to or not. it's all military. for a pacifist that's startling in itself. it's high tech shamanism and mind control.

                                        and this is just the information that we know about:
                                        just a little drop... there's alot of info to shift around in.

                                        they throw around the word "synthetic" telepathy. it's alien. they'd like you to think it's synthetic.

                                        most of these sites still don't have all the pieces to this puzzel of high technology and the extent of these programs.

                                        www.pigeonpress.org/mindcontrol.html

                                        www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/

                                        www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/ebomb.html

                                        www.mindcontrolforums.com/index.htm

                                        www.subversiveelement.com/MK_Ps...s.html

                                        video.google.com/videoplay

                                        9-11themotherofallblackoperations.blogspot.com
                              • Unsu...
                                 
                                "There seem to be many races of off-world entities that are coming to light at this time including the greys which some say are energy beings wearing grey suits. This makes sense because the vibe and atmosphere might require this. Maybe Wilcock is correct that the headdress was seen as serpeant like."

                                I think they ('Greys') are Physical Beings... Wearing Nano-Tech Grey Suits And Contacts.
                                • upon up close inspection of they greys, i have to disagree (upon personal experience) that they are wearing nano-tech suits and contacts. why do we call them grey? is it a hue? an idea? grey matter? the closer i've gotten to "them" the more is revealed to "me" (parenthesis due to my own idea of separateness, illusitory). i've nothing worth expressing here really in regard to the information received, but i fail to find the grey matter isn't anything but either confusion and a strive to maintain some sort of separation. we add faces that aren;t there or clearly defined and they are a shifty multidimensionality (wordy), but i guess that clarity comes in time too. i find them as physical as a ray of light and a shadow, and other stuff like it. its physical, but only in a sense, lacking density. i've had several contacts over the years. the information generally remains the same, though my interpretation changes as i grow more, the information matures...
                                  • do we discount language in these interpretations? it would be prudent to consider origins in relationship to language, formations of the visions and voices and how we interpret them. i stick with the "greys" often because of language and my draw to sacred geometry and octaves, etc... they're in there... all of 'em are.

                                    when i see a "grey", i look at it, closer and closer, eyes begin to blur, watery eyes, opened or closed? white noise, its body, a tone, vibe, vehicle, .... my mind receives information, of what use? who knows! no emotional attachment, fear comes closer, the information is tainted. i release, and there it is. an angel? alien? unknown. letting go has its value.

                                    i'm open to bartering. :)
                                    • Unsu...
                                       
                                      i stick with the "greys" often because of language and my draw to sacred geometry and octaves, etc... they're in there... all of 'em are.

                                      ______________

                                      good point anistara...

                                      in my visions, which are in many cases symbolic, i see lots of geometric designs. i'm now seeing polygon doors that i never saw before. in tunnels and craft.
                                  • Unsu...
                                     
                                    And what Species of 'Grey' were they... Once again.. Most people... Particularly Abductees... Are seeing CyberNetic Greys... These are Cyber Netic Organisms... They are not From Space.. They are made here on earth in labs underground... They other type of 'grey' that abduct are the Dol universe greys... These are taller and seem to almost have nose... you have seen them.. they are the taller greys that are always in the shadows during the abductions... you will never seen them that... I am not an abductee... I am a contactee... I have had tea with Wild Zeta... The ones that never became a slave race to the draconians... I was given most of their history... They wear contacts... You will see... But don't take my word for it... study more... Other know... Others have said the same thing... Credu Mutwa for one... many in the military... ect. ect... other contactees... even some of the autopsies... I have personally seen them take them out to show me.
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        "So one last time... Reptilians are
                        1... Not really Aliens.. They were Developed on Earth By Draconians...
                        2... Not Humans.... Nor are they the Above World Figures like Bush... Reptilians are the Chitahuri spoken of by the Zu Lu...Naga spoken of in the Vedas...
                        3... Above ground figures like Bush are in fact Human... Though they only display their more cold blooded emotions... They are not any more reptilian than anyone else... However they are more Draconian... and have unlocked DNA that allows them to be remote controlled from higher dimensions... "

                        I should Clarify #1... Not All Reptilians are Aliens (ET, Beings from another Planet)... Some were Developed on Earth By Draconians (Which are a Root Reptilian Race)

                        I hope that made that clearer... Prolly not... But oh well... I try.
                        • Unsu...
                           
                          And by no means am I talking about Hebrews/Jews. I am MULTI-ETHNIC. I do not Deny the Holocaust. I have studied the Kabalah. Suggesting that I am antisemitic is highly ignorant. Look up what a Bodhisattva is. Look up what it means to have Unconditional Love for all Beings. I don't see how being that stupid helps anyone.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    the problem i have with this Manjushri is there is a difference between theory and proven concept.

                    Stuff may be all over the internet, but then again there is a lot of unreilable stuff all over the net.

                    However, i keep an open mind.


                    • Unsu...
                       
                      Yes...

                      Some of the books outlines these details are hundred of years old.... some of the records are thousands... Some is brand new... This is not just a couple fringe people spouting things... It is a well documented trail that anyone with time can follow... Yes there is a lot of mis-information, and a lot of lack of true understanding... but that was what this post was all about...

                      I can prove any and all of it... Most of this is based on Hard Scientific Fact.
                      • one thing i can say Manjushiri is i respect the way you talk, this has been something ive been puzzled about for a time, so im going to take time out to read through your stuff properly and follow the links, and see what i find.
                        • Unsu...
                           
                          Thank you!!!

                          You get it...

                          I want people to go out and research and find out their own truths...
                          • manjo?

                            tad bit bitter tonite?

                            wordcounter: i think elo may have finally learned the lesson
                            i have not called you on it
                            yet
                            will take me some time...
                            but u never appeared to waste any before
                            • it took me ten seconds
                              you grew up with these stories, you say
                              which ones have you come to believe?
                              some are between fable and myth
                              i tell the truth; most of these i have never even heard of
                              but i
                              trek
                              on
                              • just finished
                                funny you never mentioned the cradle of all civilization:
                                the hu
                                many millions of years ago; i foget just how many
                                they were well before atlantis
                                • Unsu...
                                   
                                  Hmm... Some of that is covered in one of my books.... I may have talked about it some...
                                  Long before Humans were here, The Cetaceans (dolphin-like and whale like beings) sent out a call to the galaxy to look for a Land Based Planetary Guardian... They got Help from the Vegans in the Lyra Constellation. Aquatic Primates were bred with the Primates of this planet... To do this the GF brought in benevolent Draconians... Do to their genetic mastery...

                                  Before that even... thu... Before Life was even really beginning here... There was a race of Etheric Beings and a civilization... They are actually the ones to blame all of this on... They are US.. they are our souls.. They are the ones that set evolution in motion on this planet so that one day they may inhabit carnal beings... Think of YOU as a symbiote between a Spiritual Being... and the Multi-Cellular Organism that is your body...
                                  • not hu
                                    mu
                                    sorry

                                    time for nap

                                    which stories have YOU come to
                                    believe?

                                    i suppose i am out of my league
                                    did you ever play...
                                    hockey?
                                    football?
                                    maybe some baseball?
                                    how about pinball?
                                    i reinvented that game
                                    but too late now...

                                    the enemy
                                    is so well entrenched
                                    evil has prepared well this time
                                    but what if no earth is left
                                    after 2012...
                                    and the others
                                    that you spoke/speak of
                                    are in for a big big
                                    surprise...
                                    • Unsu...
                                       
                                      OHHH... Sorry I went TOOO FAR BACK... LOL

                                      LeMUria...

                                      Yes The Tibetans are descendants from MU...

                                      So are many tribes in North, South and Central America... As well as Japan and Hawaii... Which makes sense.. Lemuria was a oceanic continent consisting mostly of coral reef and volcanos... Stretching from Hawaii to the Galapagos... It sank beneath the waves after the Great Deluge caused by the War Between Atlantis and Lemuria...

                                      HMM Cradle of Life... Well Atlantis is were the first experiments really happened... The first Earth Humans, or Homo-Atlantis... were very different than Most of us are today... They later rebelled and started Lemuria... Later they would go to war over the Slave Race of Dumbed Down Earth Humans... or Modern Man.. These are the wars of the Veda... and the war between the gods in the Edda, Greek/Roman mythos... After the destruction of both continents the survivors fled to different parts of the world... The Lemurians traveling to many different places... and the Atlantans mostly going to Northern Africa/Middle-East/Central Asia... Pleiadeans mostly Ruled Egypt while... Orions Ruled in Summer, Reptilians Ruled other parts of Africa... The Draconians Went Under-Ground after the war...

                                      I believe the stories I write... lol
                                      I am sorta of telling you the story I believe now...

                                      I played Soccer, Basket Ball, Foot Ball (American), Base Ball...I hate spectating... I would rather play... SO I don't watch it on TV (don't watch TV at all sense about 98ish) or get into statistics... Nowa Daze... I Spin Fire... Hike... Bike... Practice Martial Arts... LOL Hacky Sack.... Bo-Staff and Bokken... and a few other fun things...

                                      The Enemy is in for suprise... lol
                                      An Armada of GF ships are waiting just outside the solar system waiting on that time.... We Win... Check out my blog on Dimensions and the convo between me and Bedouin... you'll understand more after that... I don't want to get to much more into it here... at least not tonight...
                                      • I've come to think of the stories of atlantis and lemuria as allegory, or at any rate not physically true. The reason i think this is because of plant distribution. If there had been world civilizations in the past, one would expect to find the evidence in the plants that humans have been using for so long for food and fiber. Beans and cotton were grown in both old and new worlds, but they are quite different varieties, and contain genetic evidence that they have been distinct and not crossed for a very long time. Also, we bring weeds and other travelers with us wherever we go by accident. There is no such botanical evidence for lost continents. I would expect to find many many species were moved around by ancient lemurians and atlanteans, but there is no evidence of anything of the sort.

                                        On the other hand, vast tracts of land that is now the continental shelf around india, the mediterranean, and britain, were above sea level at the end of the last ice age, but inundated by rising seas. These would have been the nicest areas for human habitation, and i think it is likely these ancient lands that are remembered as lemuria and atlantis.
                                        • Nice point Wil and here's some "documentation" to back you up.

                                          www.geocities.com/n4awi/seth23.htm

                                          Atlantis -

                                          Your ideas of Atlantis are partially composed of future memories. They are psychic yearnings toward the ideal civilization--patterns within the psyche, even as each fetus has within it the picture of its own most ideal fulfillment toward which it grows.

                                          Atlantis is a land that you want to inhabit, appearing in your literature, your dreams, and your fantasies, serving as an impetus for development. It is real and valid. In your terms it is not "yet' physical fact, but in some ways it is more real than any physical fact, for it is a psychic blueprint.

                                          It carries also, however, the imprint of your fears, for the tales say that Atlantis was destroyed. You place it in your past while it exists in your future. Not the destruction alone, but the entire pattern seen through the framework of your beliefs. Beside this, however, many civilizations have come and gone in somewhat the same manner, and the "myth” [of Atlantis] is based somewhat then on physical fact in your terms.

                                          The species then moves into its own new houses. Atlantis is the story of a future probability projected backward into an apparent past.

                                          Your planet as you know it is a certain kind of focus point for consciousness. At your level you think it is divided into areas of land and water-continents and oceans, islands and peninsulas, cities and woods-because that is all you perceive. Your consciousness is tuned in to frequencies of perception that give you that impression. A cat's world, or an insect's or a plant's, are each far different, yet equally valid.

                                          As simply as I can explain it, your planet is also "divided” into time and probability areas. Period. So many civilizations exist at once, then, and there are certain bleed-throughs. In your terms some civilizations are real and perceivable, and some are not.

                                          "Atlantis. First of all, take it for granted--as you do--that your ideas about the age of the earth are erroneous. There were intelligent human beings far earlier than is supposed; and because you assume a one-line kind of progression from an apelike creature to man, you ignore any evidence that shows to the contrary. There were highly developed human beings with elaborate civilizations, existing simultaneously with what you might call animal kingdoms--that is, more or less organized primeval animal tribes, possessing their own kinds of ‘primitive' cultures.

                                          "Those animal kingdoms, some of them, utilized tools. Their senses were extremely acute, and their ‘cultures' dealt with a kind of transmission of knowledge that made a highly complicated vocabulary unnecessary.

                                          "Those species did not vie for domination of the earth, but simply shared the same general environment with the more sophisticated groupings beyond their own perimeters. There were many highly technical human cultures, but in your terms not on a global scale. The legend of Atlantis is actually based upon several such civilizations. No particular civilization is the basis, however. Apart from that, the legend as picked up, so to speak, by Plato was a precognition of the future probability, an image of an inner civilization of the mind actually projected outward into the future, where it would be used as a blueprint, dash-the lost grandeur, as, in other terms, Eden became the lost garden of paradise.


                                          -- Seth
                                          • Unsu...
                                             
                                            Well time being A fractal...
                                            And not linear... and Seeing how you actually live your life-times (all of them) Simultaneously...
                                            Or that all of reality manifested as the first conscious being viewed that wave of possibility and we are just going through the formality of actually occurring...
                                            In that sense I agree...
                                            But There is plenty of physical Evidence of Atlantis in what most people mistakenly call "the past"....
                                        • Unsu...
                                           
                                          Actually we do... For example there was tobacco found in Eygpt... Mummified (Eygption style) Baboons found in South America.. Serpent Shaped boats in Norway... Umm there are no serpents in Norway... there aren't even any in Ireland...much less norway... I have also studied botany, herbalism and Ethnobotany... there are many plants used by both South Americans and people in India... The exact same plants used with similar histories of the plants... here is a good one... There are Giant Spiny Ant-eaters in South America... Their only living relative is the Platypus of Australia... Also Opossum are marsupials, that have been steadily moving north from south america for thousands of years... They are now in FL/TX/GA/AB/VA.... I could keep going... looks like you need to look in to that thought a bit more... of course if you believe Pangia that may explain some... but remember that would have been millions of years not 100,000s of thousands... or as little as 13,000 years ago...
                                          But main point is... WE HAVE FOUND plants used by humans... with very specific uses and stories... being used by people thousands of miles apart... in the ancient world... Being used in the same way with similar stories... There were of course much more migration that modern science admits... particularly by boat... But that only supports what I am saying...
                                          • Unsu...
                                             
                                            Also remember... Plants need Specific conditions... For example Indigo will grow here in Oregon... But it is grown in Japan... It does not grow well in China... Or pretty much anywhere else... So if you took Indigo to South America... Most likely it would not grow...
                                            Also Sub-Species and even entirely new species can actually evolve in 10s of years (if the life cycle is short enough)... Not that millions or thousands of years taught by modern evolution... Thought that too is changing... For example there was a moth in europe... It had wings that looked like the tree bark of a tree in the area... this protected them from being eaten... A coal electrical plant was build near where these trees/moths lived... the soot from the plant go on the trees... making the moths stand out... they started to get eaten... With in 10 years every thought they had died out... no one saw moths that looked like them anymore... Well... Someone finally decided to check it out.. turns out... the moths evolved in 10 years to have a completely different wing color (was a creamy color to a very dark brown) that better matched the trees that now always had soot on them... My point here is.... Any plant brought over from a different environment would evolve in 13,000 years...
                                            Or it would Die out... We have much evidence of this as well as plants that have not changed much in 100,000 years...
                                          • There are, in fact, snakes in norway. I've never heard of baboons in south america. Actually, i just looked it up now, and there aren't any, but a local name for a howler monkey in belieze is baboon, so i guess that's where the confusion comes from. The nicotine mummy thing looks very highly doubtful
                                            .www.straightdope.com/columns/010126.html

                                            You are right about the animals. They are similar because their ancestors were together as one species on an ancient continent called Gondwanaland, which subsequently broke up into south america and australia.

                                            I think this they are called "disjunct species" , like american and chinese ginsengs are disjunct species, likewise chestnuts and a long list of plants and animals are disjunct between the appalachians and china ( among many other places). These are much more ancient than humans. MUCH.
                                            • Unsu...
                                               
                                              well...I was just naming a few off the top of my head... but point is there is in fact proof of that kind of trade and travel... It has puzzled historians and archeologists for years... this is not a new topic... look back to older books... Though there has been a lot of new discoveries about ancient migration and trade...
                                            • Unsu...
                                               
                                              As far as the plant thing goes... I can give you a huge list of plants that are used by South American Natives... that are also used in Ayurvedic Medicine in India... Some of which are used in Tibet... all talking about similar flood stories... and being from MU...
                                              • m:
                                                >>>look back to older books...<<<
                                                what for?
                                                atlantis?
                                                how long ago do you put intelligent life on this planet?

                                                Planet X, Comets and Earth Changes

                                                Surviving Planet X Passage

                                                Atlantis to Tesla - The Kolbrin Connection
                                                by: jim mccanney: astro physics...i think

                                                i don't need a thousand or so sources; this one will do
                                                i read his stuff years ago and never was so moved...
                                                and astrology i know little of, except the accepted basics that any other idiot should be able to figure out
                                                i cannot even find these books, but they are around here, or there, somewhere
                                                i have read a couple hundred of great books, essays, abstracts
                                                no where near you in number but covers such a range of subjects
                                                yet the tru....understanding

                                                f...
                                                monday morn and soon to work. not a bad weekend tho
                                                but i have one more thread to respond too...
                                                when you were a kid, did you always have your homework done...?
                                                • Unsu...
                                                   
                                                  ">>>look back to older books...<<<
                                                  what for?
                                                  atlantis?
                                                  how long ago do you put intelligent life on this planet? "

                                                  Yes. The written history of this planet is repleat with Aliens, References of Atlantis and Lemuria, Genetic Manipulations, Advanced Technology in Pre-Diluvian times... Including Space Craft and Nuclear weapons... Some of these texts are far older than the Bible... the Vedas, Eddas, Epic of Gilgamesh (one of the post Diluvian kings of Sumer, He ruled for 126 years... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_king_list )... Some of the Vedas date to 7000 BC or 9000 years ago... All of which are based on Older Cuneiform Tablets from Sumer...

                                                  'how long ago do you put intelligent life on this planet? '

                                                  Long before there were any 2 or 4 legs animals there was a society of Etheric Beings living on this planet... Organic life was little more than single celled blue/green algae... Making way for the more complex life that the Etheric Beings would inhabit much later on...Billions of years for intelligent life...

                                                  But as far as What Your talking about... Dolphins are 60 Million years more evolved than Humans and Whales are 200 million years more evolved... So a long ass time ago... I will have to research the Akashic Records for a more precise date...
                                                  • Unsu...
                                                     
                                                    what does 60 million years more evolved mean? evolutionary leaps seem to take on board previous lifeforms, so for a dolphin to be more evolved than a human, it should have appeared after us, bringing with it the faculties gained from the human experience. Else we'd all be worshipping coelacanths and their 400million year superiority.
                                                    • Unsu...
                                                       
                                                      "what does 60 million years more evolved mean?"

                                                      Well for one they are Conscious breathers... they literally have to think about it each time they breathe... We are only Semi-Conscious....

                                                      They have sonar... Do we? (oh btw it doesn't work like a bats.. which use only high pitched sounds... Dolphins and Whales use a form of Electromagnetic Field Sonar... along with echo location...)

                                                      These 2 don't have much to do with them being more evolved...

                                                      They have a highly complex and sophisticated language... Yes that is right...science, Hard Science, is long past theory that they have a language... it is 100% confirmed... And it is on par with Sanskrit for it's complexity and it's ability to express...

                                                      They also have a society...

                                                      BTW neither are 400million years more evolved... Whales are 200 million... Dolphins are 60 million...

                                                      We did worship Dolphins.... all over the world... And yes...back when they lived on land they were far different... much like wolves... and Whales were like sea-cow/hippo/manatee types... They evolved long before homo sapiens... Which only appeared 200,000 years ago... Lucy... who was not homo sapien.... is our oldest hominid fossil and dates to a mere 4.6 million years... Dolphins had already been in the sea for over 40millions at that point... 20 millions years before we even could talk... they had language... and sonar... and society.

                                                      And if you listen to my craziness... They are the reason WE are even here... They were the ones that wanted a Planetary Guardian on Land... Since they had Taken over the seas... They Called on Help from the Galactic Humans... Who brought in Aquatic Primates to mix with the Earth Primates... for stage 1... then slowly mixed in genes from other species of Galactic Humans... That was long before the Draconian manipulations which started about 500,000 years ago...
                                                      • >>>And if you listen to my craziness... <<< life:101

                                                        what else do me and my children have for a saturday nite?

                                                        sometimes one is here, and not always by choice

                                                        kind of sorry you don't drink...but don't worry
                                                        i drink more than for the three of us

                                                        i do believe this is the best thread of the tribe

                                                        tough to try to educate all, especially between the stubborn and the stupid
                                                        • Unsu...
                                                           
                                                          I brew beer and wine... mostly barley wine and honey mead. It is part of my diet.
                                                          I don't drink Hard A... if that is what you mean...
                                                          Om Ganja Guru Hum... =p
                                                          • Unsu...
                                                             
                                                            conscious breathing don't sound too much fun & I was glad to give up conscious liver functioning 220million years ago when I was in control of a rebel band of newly formed haemoglobins before the white brotherhood entered the network and..hang on, no, sorry that was 10 years ago.

                                                            So, yeah, dolphins have a complex language system. It has to be complex to locate and describe stuff in the murky brine where visual impairment is rather high. Hard science, to my best knowledge, which is far from the best knows, that dolphins all create an individual macro language. and it's not understood how it works as a language so any comparison with a human language, particularly sanskrit, is rather , well..... did you just make that up? most beasties have a society (x)

                                                            so, where's that calculator.. aha. No, you'll see I mentioned coelacanths are 400 million years estimate.

                                                            right, now...(shuffle shuffle)

                                                            homo sapiens arrived 200,000 years ago.

                                                            4 million years ago we were part of the lucy trunk of hominids.

                                                            4 million years ago dolphins had been in the sea for 40 million years

                                                            40 million years ago was (maybe) 20 million years before we could talk (whatever we were then) ?

                                                            So, at some point between 20 million years ago and...well I'm not sure, we worshipped dolphins who had evolved into wolves (with sonar?)

                                                            I guess I wonder why you mention science at all to back up a bit of something. I also don't know why there needs to be any claim of galactic human involvement. It's not spiritually useful. Your myths work so much better when the "science" part isn't involved.

                                                            Anyhoo, I personally like the myth that there is no galactic assistance. The reason we are as we are is because we are the pinnacle of universal consciousness evolution. that way, there is no need for galactic or mother maya retribution for wrongdoings, cause we're just innocents flapping further up the sands of time... the spark burning further along a page of infinite touchpaper.... etc

                                                            damn, that may mean I might liken calleman's notion. in principle. grrrr

                                                            I may crack open a guniness for roger this eve. best you can get in the absence of a decent glass of murphys
                                                            • Unsu...
                                                               
                                                              "40 million years ago was (maybe) 20 million years before we could talk (whatever we were then) ?

                                                              So, at some point between 20 million years ago and...well I'm not sure, we worshipped dolphins who had evolved into wolves"

                                                              No... Greeks and Romans worshiped Dolphins as well as Maya, and Chinese... Like I said all over the world... And in written history... not before the Deluge but after.... Though Dolphins were worshiped in predeluvian times...

                                                              No, Dolphins evolved from a wolf like ancestor...

                                                              Dolphins, along with whales and porpoises, are descendants of terrestrial mammals, most likely of the Artiodactyl order. The ancestors of the modern day dolphins entered the water roughly fifty million years ago, in the Eocene epoch

                                                              I said over 40 millions cause I was Lazy... We might have been Lemurs at that point.... LOL

                                                              Science has everything to do with it... A long time ago... Spirituality and Science were one... The Dark Ages ended that... to make both Occult and hidden from the Main Population...

                                                              I write Science Fiction...
                                                              Though I do some Pure Fantasy...
                                                              Think of me as a modern Isaac Asimov


                                                              "there is no need for galactic or mother maya retribution for wrongdoings, cause we're just innocents flapping further up the sands of time..."

                                                              The Retributions are not for our wrongdoings... We are a Slave Race... We were manipulated Genetically and controlled for thousands of year... Humans are basically good... look to native societies... We are innocents... Humans are not the problem on this planet...
                                                              • Unsu...
                                                                 
                                                                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphins
                                                                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolp..._mythology

                                                                Dolphins appear in a number of Greek myths, invariably as helpers of humankind. Dolphins also seem to have been important to the Minoans, judging by artistic evidence from the ruined palace at Knossos.

                                                                A dolphin rescued the poet Arion from drowning and carried him safe to land, at Cape Taenarum, now Cape Matapan, a promontory forming the southernmost point of the Peloponnesus. There was a temple to Poseidon and a statue of Arion riding the dolphin. (Herodotus I.23; Thucydides I.128, 133; Pausanias iii.25, 4)

                                                                The Greeks reimagined the Phoenician god Melqart as Melikertês (Melicertes) and made him the son of Athamas and Ino. He drowned but was transfigured as the marine deity Palaemon, while his mother became Leucothea. (cf Ino.) At Corinth, he was so closely connected with the cult of Poseidon that the Isthmian Games, originally instituted in Poseidon's honor, came to be looked upon as the funeral games of Melicertes.
                                                                Young aulos-player riding a dolphin: red-figure stamnos, ca 360-340 BCE, found in Etruria, (National Archeological Museum, Madrid)
                                                                Young aulos-player riding a dolphin: red-figure stamnos, ca 360-340 BCE, found in Etruria, (National Archeological Museum, Madrid)

                                                                Phalanthus was another legendary character brought safely to shore (in Italy) on the back of a dolphin, according to Pausanias.

                                                                Many seals and coins show a man or boy riding a dolphin.

                                                                Dionysus was once captured by Etruscan pirates who mistook him for a wealthy prince they could ransom. After the ship set sail Dionysus invoked his divine powers, causing vines to overgrow the ship where the mast and sails had been. He turned the oars into serpents, so terrifying the sailors that they jumped overboard, but Dionysus took pity on them and transformed them into dolphins so that they would spend their lives providing help for those in need.

                                                                Dolphins were also the messengers of Poseidon, Greek god of the sea, and sometimes did errands for him as well.

                                                                Dolphins were sacred to both Aphrodite and Apollo.


                                                                In Hindu mythology the Ganges River Dolphin is associated with Ganga, the deity of the Ganges river. The dolphin is said to be among the creatures which heralded the goddess' descent from the heavens [1] and her mount, the Makara, is sometimes depicted as a dolphin [2].

                                                                The Boto dolphins in the Amazon River are shapeshifters, or encantados, who are capable of having children with human women.
                                                                • Unsu...
                                                                   
                                                                  www.ancientspiral.com/dolphin1.htm

                                                                  Sacred Whales and Dolphins

                                                                  For many cultures across the world, whales and dolphins are associated with divine powers and are seen as superior beings. In ancient Greece, to kill a dolphin was equal to killing a human and was a crime punishable by death. For dolphins were seen messengers for the Gods, and were closely associated with Poseidon's daughters, the Nereids, the goddess of love Aphrodite, the heroine Galatea and the music-loving sun god, Apollo. It was said that the constellation Delphinus, the dolphin, was put in the sky by Poseidon in gratitude to the dolphins for finding his bride Amphitrite.

                                                                  In the rainforests of the Amazon Basin, the native Indians tell literally thousands of legends about the mysterious pink Amazon river dolphin, also called the Boto. Stories abound of the river dolphins taking human form and wooing young girls. They are often as regarded as unlucky, as they may tempt unknowing men and women into the water, where they are taken to Encante, the underwater world of no return. Similar tales of shape shifting are told of the elusive Baiji, or Yangtze river dolphin.

                                                                  In Sumeria, dolphins were connected to Ea-Oannes, the deity of the sea, and sometimes with the goddess Isis in Egypt. The ancient Celts attributed the dolphin with well-worship and the healing powers of water, and the image of people riding dolphins is seen on some Celtic artefacts. Some Australian Aboriginal tribes claim to be direct descendants of dolphins, who are sometimes regarded as guardian spirits. The dolphin is also an important symbol in heraldry, the art of creating coats-of-arms, and represents diligence, salvation, charity and love.

                                                                  Whales too are seen as sacred in some cultures. Russian, Slavic and Arabian mythology claims that whales support the world, and in Chinese mythology a whale with the hands and feet of a man rules the ocean. The Chinese also connected the single spiral tusk of the Narwhal, an Arctic-dwelling whale, with the horn of the sacred Unicorn. Statues of the Buddha in Tibet are frequently accompanied by whales.

                                                                  The great black and white killer whale, or orca, actually the largest member of the dolphin family, is important for many native American cultures. The Tlingit, Nootka and Haida tribes in particular see the orca as one of the many animal ancestral spirits and is viewed as an embodiment of strength and speed. Orca motifs, as well as other whales, appear on many native American objects from clothes to shamanic drums, as well as items of South American origin. Like the river dolphins of the Amazon, however, native American mythology sometimes casts the orca as a dangerous being, who can take people to their realm under the sea and transform them into whales.

                                                                  Whales are also sources of fear and superstition for some cultures, and are frequently regarded as monsters in myth and legend. Many sightings of sea monsters can be attributed to whales whose sheer size terrified sailors of the old world. A large number of sailors believed in a number of demonic whales, such as the Red Whale, the Horse Whale and the Pig Whale, that sunk ships and ate everyone on board. To even utter the name of these whales was considered bad luck. In Japan however, whales were connected with the more benevolent sea serpents known as Shan, who would visit the coast to play in large numbers. Norse folklore told of whales with magical powers, and cast them as the mounts of evil witches and wizards.

                                                                  The symbolism of the whale in Christianity is ambivalent. The belly of the whale is often used to represent Hell, and the whale's jaws as Hell's gates and some Christians connect the terrifying biblical sea monster Leviathan with the whales. Yet the "big fish" that swallowed the sinner Jonah is usually interpreted as whale, therefore portraying the mighty sea mammal as God's ally. The Bible tells us that once Jonah had repented, he was vomited out by the whale - thus connecting the whale with rebirth and resurrection. Some ancient Islamic folktales also hold this legend true, and in fact Jonah's whale is one of only 10 animals allowed into Heaven.

                                                                  The whale features in another story from Christianity, telling of the voyages of the Irish monk St. Brandon. In one account, St. Brandon and his companions land on a strange island, where they settle and begin to cook food. But as the campfire burns, the island shudders and sinks. Having barely escaped, the sailors are told by St. Brandon that the island was actually a mighty whale name Jasconius, whom they had woken when they lit the fire. A very similar tale was told in Persia of the legendary sailor Sinbad, who also became stranded on the back of a whale having mistaken it for an island.

                                                                  Both whales and dolphins are regarded on a level equalling that of humans in Vietnam. If the body of dead whale or dolphin is washed ashore, its finder must mourn the death like a brother and bury the body. Mass graves filled with the skulls of whales and dolphins have been found in Vietnam by archaeologists. Ironically, this treatment was shared by early whalers in Japan, who on killing a pregnant whale would bury the foetus and give it a Buddhist name.
                                                                  • Unsu...
                                                                     
                                                                    www.ancientspiral.com/dolphin1.htm

                                                                    The origins of Whales and Dolphins: Science and Myth

                                                                    Whales and dolphins inhabit all the oceans of the world, and a few species dwell in freshwater. Yet this has not always been the case.

                                                                    Millions of years ago, a cow-like creature resembling a wolf in appearance, walked on the land in the continents now known as Europe, Asia and North America. These animals were of the now extinct family of Mesonychidae, and as they competed for food on the land, some began to search the waters for food. Generation after generation passed, and the Mesonychidae began to adapt in their new environment. They lost their fur to become more streamlined, enabling them to swim more easily, leaving bare skin over a thick layer of blubber to provide insulation in cold water. Their entire body too was re-shaped to become streamlined; external ears vanished, front legs became flat pectoral fins (flippers) to provide steerage and the back legs were replaced by a muscular tail ending in broad flukes (tail-fins) which, when moved up and down, provided propulsion. To make breathing at the water's surface more efficient, their nostrils moved to the top of their heads and became blow-holes. Thus, from the land-dwelling family of Mesonychidae a new family was born: the family of whales and dolphins.

                                                                    Such is the origin of whales and dolphins according to science. However, many cultures have told different stories. Perhaps the most vivid account of the origin of dolphins is that of the ancient Greeks. Legend tells us that Dionysis, the god of wine and mirth, was once voyaging across the Mediterranean islands of Ikaria and Naxos disguised as a traveller. But the sailors had evil intentions, and unknowing the true identity of their passenger, planned to kidnap Dionysis and sell him as a slave. Once Dionysis discovered this plot, he used his divine powers to fill the boat with vines and the sound of pipes. He caused leopards and lions to appear and changed the oars of the boat into snakes. In order to escape this madness, the sailors leapt over board into the sea, where the ocean god Poseidon changed them into dolphins, forever destined to help sailors by guiding their boats.

                                                                    The native Inuit peoples of the Arctic, who have depended on hunting small numbers of sea mammals for generations, also attribute whales and dolphins with divine creation. Their legends tell of a young girl named Sedna, who refused to every marry a man and rejected all her lovers. She then fell in love with a dog and married him instead. Enraged, all of Sedna's rejected men took the girl aboard a boat and pushed her into the sea. Sedna grasped the edge of the boat in an effort to stop herself from falling into the freezing waters, but the cruel men chopped off all her fingers. Her severed fingers fell into the sea, and turned into the world's first whales, dolphins, seals and walruses. Sedna is now the reigning goddess of the sea, and if she becomes enraged, she will shut away all the sea-beasts so man is unable to hunt.
                                                                    Whatever their origins, there is something undeniably special and unique about whales and dolphins. Most people find the appeal of these animals hard to put into words. Some say it is the beautiful appearance of whales and dolphins that attracts them - their graceful bodies, effortless movement, almost human eyes and, in many species, a permanent "smile" as cryptic as the expression of the Mona Lisa. For others, it is the apparent intelligence of dolphins that is so appealing; many claim that you need only look into a dolphin's eyes to recognise the spark of intellect.
                                                            • woke up this morning and got myself a beer...
                                                              hope its not monday
                                                              you sure know how to stir the shit, professor
                                                              murphys is far better than the guiness sp?
                                                              i always used to educate people can you believe that?
                                                              on why those 2 so much better
                                                              nitrogen charged

                                                              manjo: wow
                                                              wish i had the patience; the only way to go=own
                                                              i still have yet to buy the sprouter: tough to get good organic seed
                                                              i think i asked lana about this...do not remember
                                                              ever made dandelion wine? stupid question, i'm sure you have
                                                              • Unsu...
                                                                 
                                                                gotta keep the sediments on the move. although the mesonychids was new to me, so cheers manjo for that lookup. it's a bit more complex than that but it'd be cool if more fossil records turn up to seal it.

                                                                murphys is a way smoother pint than guiness. unless, maybe you actually get it in Dublin where it's a lot tastier because of that, I never got to sample whether the murphys was any better there. Nitrogen vs Co2 is one theory. But so is magic leprechauns using it as bathwater makes it creamy.

                                                                I took a trip to gnossus a while back. Crete's a bit dry, I'm sure it was better in its heyday. Thing is though is it's kinda small overall. aside from all the dolphin stuff, its the minotaurs maze there. its really tiny. it would be difficult to get lost in there, let alone hide a giant angry manbull. such is myth and that. unless he's still in the middle.
                                                                • Unsu...
                                                                   
                                                                  Yes, the Minoans had some amazing architecture... Also, the Phaistos Disc is from there... on display at the archaeological museum of Herakleion in Crete, Greece.

                                                                  N2O does make a smooth beer... I very rarely make a N20 brew... though I have the injectors for my steel brew keg... I personally just brew naturally and carbonate naturally...

                                                                  Ya Guiness is better in Dublin for sure... I only get the Extra Stout in a Glass Bottles here... but even that sucks... Never drink any beer in a can... They all suck... nasty...

                                                                  Some fun beer facts... Guiness is what is known as a Guaze, It has both fresh brewed beer and Lambic Beer that was brewed in open Oak Kegs... They have 1 room in their brewery for these... the rest is brewed in modern, closed steel vats...

                                                                  Lambic... if you don't know means that the beer was infected with a wild yeast... and has sour taste...
                                                                  Framboise (Fram-BWa) uses a Lambic and Raspberry Juice... It is French Belgium... Where the best beer comes from =p
                                                                  Trappist and Abby Ales...


                                                                  Lagunitas wins... Or Stone or Speak Easy...
                              • Unsu...
                                 
                                Well, that is what is the best part... They all are the same story... Just different people... All over the world... Talking about the same events...
                                So you could say I only believe 1 story... Or, you could say I believe all of them...
                                There is truth in everything...
                • Unsu...
                   
                  Here are some references for that Bloodlines thing... Aside from Holy Blood, Holy Grail & Da Vinci Code...
                  Look into hampton court hospitol.
                  Ancestors of American Presidents by Gary Boyd Roberts
                  and the Burkes Peerage, which is the genealogy records kept by the British Royal family... and it was an editor that noticed the 'abnormal' number of connection between us presidents and royal blood lines....
                  Siriusly Look it up... You will be very surprised...
  • Unsu...
     
    Listen to this little Girl...

    www.youtube.com/watch

    www.youtube.com/watch
    • do you stake your rep on this?
      • >>>The cosmic event and it's timings are simply amazing... Part of a natural bio-rhythm of the planet... Designed to evolve the symbiotes and kill off the parasites...>>>

        This is in response to something you posted way up there, Manjusri....i haven't had time to sort thru the rest just yet, ......just wanted to pipe up here and say Yes!!!!!! (to the above statement).....exactly, exactly, exactly.....how could it be any other way?
        • Unsu...
           
          When Gaia told me her plan... I cried and laughed... I was soo amazed... That simple I asked... She said of course... The people that live in tune with nature will not suffer from the super-flus and viruses...because the have an immune system that developed at the same speed... those that live in Maya... Eating anti-depressants like candy... Getting flu shots every year... using Bleach and Anti Bacterial soap that breed more immune strains of the very microbes we are trying to kill... Nowadays you can get a Staph infection while at the hospital that can actually kill you... The hospital will not be able to do anything about it...

          Now, Imagine if the economy collapses... What would happen... Only those in living in Maya and large cities would really suffer... Riots.. no food... Murder, theft.. it would be horrible... But if you live out in the woods... and know how to live off the land... I mean there are actually people that would die if there was no super-markets and McDonald's... Not to mention that biological factor I already mentioned... Bird Flu is more Scary than Nukes at this time in history... Particularly with the melting ice caps and deforesting of the rain forests... both releasing ancient viruses that have not be active for thousands of years... That with global warming, making the planet more suitable to breed more and more of these diseases... Then there are the natural Disasters... And wars... People that want war... will die by war... But by now I think you get my point...

          But remember Don't Panic... You make your own Reality...
          There are so many people now on the spiritual ark... *Hopi term*... That we as a species are going to make it no matter what...
          So the goal is to get as many people on as you can... As you have seen here on Tribe and elsewhere.. There will be plenty that will not agree... think your nutz.... argue pointlessly... ect... But don't lose hope... From what I have seen... A huge new wave of awakening is occurring right now... this year 2008 will see more change than in the last 5 years...

          Om Mani Padme Hum
          Om Bhaisajye Bhaisajye, Maha Bhaisajye, Raja Samudgate Svaha
          Om Ah Ra Pa Tsa Na Dhee Dhee Dhee
          Om Ah Hum, Vajra Guru Padma Siddhe Hum
      • Unsu...
         
        If you can't trust 62 school children living in Rural Africa... Who can you trust?
        Yes I do... The reason they talked to the kids... Is because some people don't believe, Crazy/Hippie/Trippin/Pseudo-Schizophrenic/Native American/New Age Visionary/Shamen/Starseeds, like myself... But they might listen to their own children... or others... Plus... If you realize how psychic kids are, and how open... It makes perfect since.. And the Kids matter more than... Their Parents do... Sad as that is... They have not been brainwashed... they have not lost the wonder, or sense of awe... They are not jaded.. or confused by maya.... Um... also It has happened several times in South America and Central America since then... There is even Video of a Craft that landing in a school yard... Talked about that some on the 2005 XCON with Jaime Maussan...
        • Unsu...
           
          Oh, Which brings us back the the Natural Living...
          Wonder why the contact more people out in the country?
          I don't... I know why...
          Ruwa, Africa is a hot bed BTW for UFO activity...
          South and Central America as well...

          I just keep going from hot bed to hot bed my self... I grew up in southern Florida, moved to central Texas, then up here to OR... All long before I was 'into' this stuff... Though I have been seeing Alien Craft since I was 3... and had the classic 'Dream Trainings' I am sure you are all aware of by now.. Later at 16 and then at 18 I had some very powerful physical contact with a number of species of beings... And have had a few physical contacts since then... But have been in constant psychic contact ever since... I like to say it is kinda like the internet... you just log on... download... communicate... project... ect... It is always there, It is always on... Just are you tuned into it...

          LoL, Go ahead now, Try to adjust that Psychic Radio Dial... 3 inches behind the center of your eyes... Focus that Lens... See what you pick up... you might surprise yourself...
          • (this reposted from another thread i posted on...)....seems appropriate here....thanks for your lovely and thoughtful responses Manjusri....i also get these feelings from mama earth.....you just have to do your best and remain detached....just like all the greatest teachings yes?
            **********************************
            "get to the root of the problem"

            i don't disagree with you there, man....in my opinion, the root of our problem is the long time ago disassociation with the earth, and living in harmony with the planet and all of it's inhabitants....(mama don't take too kindly to being fucked with, and all of her children, the ones who can't defend themselves, who are locked up in cages and used and manipulated, causing unending amounts of pain and suffering and degredation, not to mention earth degredation)....

            when any organism is out of balance with the whole, systems self regulate in order to bring harmony back to the whole....

            like Bill Hicks used to say: "One day the earth is gonna shake us off like a bad case of fleas"....yep, i believe that's what we're seeing the beginnings of
  • Thank you so much! I have been causing myself much turmoil since learning about these important pieces of information.
    However,that is what my biological computer was trained to do by what I can only refer to as the misinformed.
    I love those who have brought my into this time loop,but they and their misinformed programs have to be abandoned, for lack of a better word.
    What else can be done?
    Love and be trampled under the feet of the oppressors?
    Fight The System?
    Join the game of competition with them knowing it is just a game?
    Not having much of a background in out-of-the-norm thinking my mind is still having a hard time making sense of all this.
    What is true?
    Where do we go from here?
    How do we unlock the potential inside our individual universe?
    Is love the only answer?
    If so, or if not- What is Love?
    Do I question the validity of everything?...anything?
    Have I seen The Matrix too many times?...not enough?
    Is not The Matrix Trilogy just another part of The System..a means of diversion from the Truth?
    What is Truth?...Belief...Sensation...Experience...Causality...Love?
    to searching for answers to apparently unanswerable questions, one must have the belief the answer exists, if only in some undiscovered region of Self.
    • Unsu...
       
      Pay attention to the media...and movies coming out of hollywood... Beowulf for example... Talks about the dragon Kingship bloodline thing very directly... The ancient poem only alluded... to it...
      10,000 BC is also great... though... The Great Pyramid is closer to 26,000 years old...as is the Sphinx... Note water erosion on both structures dating to about 13,000-15,000 years... The Sphinx faces Leo Rising...Helically on the Sidereal... It would have been facing opposite of that 13,000 years ago... and will align perfectly come DEC 21, 2012....
      the Matrix is only partly right of course...and truth is everywhere but you must weed out the crap.
      The media is only too happy to tell you the truth....subversively...
      In fact, do to the treaties and deals the overlords have with Jonn Dee's Macrobes... They have to tell you what they plan on doing...
      That is part of Occult Ritual... Tell the victims exactly what you plan on doing...
      The first step is to realize yourself... and heal yourself... you can't help anyone until you do that...
      Then work with friends and close ones... if you feel motivated, gather as much info you can and begin to disperse it... preferably in a highly public forum space...like tribe... or write books... make movies... do whatever...
      Even if you only change yourself...that is 1 more person...
      They want a civil war... they want us to fight... they want marshal law...
      Boycott major corps... shop at mom and pop shops... buy locally made products... that hurts them the most... in the pocket book...
      Imagine if every in US quit their jobs tomorrow and started to work instead to better themselves, their families, and society...
      Or better yet... 100,000,000 person march onto Washington to throw out the corrupt system and have some real elections...
  • Unsu...
     
    Ew... Someone just Mentioned the Kali Yuga...

    Time to Bring this one back to the top...
    • Unsu...
       
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuga

      A Yuga (Devanāgari: युग) in Hindu philosophy is the name of an 'epoch' or 'era' within a cycle of four ages. These are the Satya Yuga (or Krita Yuga), the Treta Yuga, the Dvapara Yuga and finally the Kali Yuga, which are equated with the Roman Golden, Silver, Bronze and Iron Ages respectively by E. Burgess [1]. According to Indian astronomy and Hindu Mythology, the world is created, destroyed and recreated every 4,320,000 years (Maha Yuga) [2]. The cycles are said to repeat like the seasons, waxing and waning within a greater time-cycle of the creation and destruction of the universe. Like Summer, Spring, Winter and Autumn, each yuga involves stages or gradual changes which the earth and the consciousness of mankind goes through as a whole. A complete yuga cycle from a high Golden Age of enlightenment to a Dark Age and back again is said to be caused by the solar system's motion around a central sun.

      he traditional virtues accorded the highest value in the four epochs are:

      1. Satya Yuga or Krita Yuga: dhyana (meditation). In the highest yuga, the great majority of people can experience spirituality by direct intuitive realization of truth. The veil between the material and the transcendent realms becomes almost transparent. According to Natya Shastra, there are no Natya performances in the Krita Yuga because it is a period free from any kind of unhappiness or misery. Satya Yuga is also called the Golden Age.
      2. Treta Yuga: yajna (sacrifice). The Treta Yuga is the mental age. Mental power is harnessed and men are in power. There are inventions that dissolve the illusion of time (inventions are characteristic of both Dvapara and Treta yugas). Clairvoyance and telepathy are common skills.
      3. Dvapara Yuga: archana (worship). In the Dvapara Yuga, science flourishes, people experience the spiritual in terms of subtle energies and rational choices, inventions are abundant, particularly those that dissolve the illusion of distance (between people and between things), and power is mostly in the hands of women. The end of this age (in the descending phase) is associated with the death of Krishna, and the events described in the Mahabharata.
      4. Kali Yuga: daana (alms). In the lowest epoch, Kali Yuga, most people are aware only of the physical aspects of existence. The predominant emphasis of living is material survival, and power is mostly in the hands of men.

      Temples, wars, and writing are hallmarks of Dvapara and Kali yugas. In the higher ages (Treta and Satya), writing is unnecessary because people communicate directly by thought. Temples are unnecessary because people feel the omnipresence of God. Wars are rare but they do occur - one such war is described in the Ramayana.
      • Check out Jay Weidner's take on this www.jayweidner.com/2012Topology.html

        "According to the mythology of the Yuga system there are four ages of life and time on our planet. It is important to remember that there are many cycles within cycles in the Hindu Yuga system so the years mentioned next may have to do with a larger cycle than the one addressed in this article. Perhaps the huge number of years referred to below is the cycle of the solar system as it circles another star or perhaps it is a portion of the great cycle of one revolution around the galactic center.

        The first age is the Satya Yuga or the Golden Age according to Fulcanelli. The Hindu texts tell us that this age lasts 1,728,000 years. This is an age of extreme splendour when the beings on our planet appear to live much longer than they do now. In this age there are no wars, famines strife or evil.

        The second age is called the Treta Yuga, or the Silver age. As in the second law of thermodynamics, or entropy, things begin to slip in this age and the beings on Earth begin to deteriorate. This slippage, at least during this second age is the beginning of corruption and evil is introduced into the planetary sphere. This age lasts 1,296,000 years according to the Vedic texts of India.

        The third age of this cycle is called the Dvapara Age, or the Bronze Age. This is the beginning of the ‘fall’ of humanity. In this age corruption comes on more fully, evil begins to spread and things start to fall into disharmony. This age lasts 864,000 years.

        The last age is called the Kali Yuga, or the Iron Age. This age is the age we are in right now. Evil and corruption become the driving force as greed, wars, famine and disease spread across the planet like a tidal wave of death and destruction. This age lasts, according to the Hindu texts for 432,000 years. (For more information see also Tolkien at the End of Time: Alchemical Secrets of the Lord of the Rings by Jay Weidner and Sharron Rose at jayweidner.com, or see Reflections on the Cycle of the Great Yuga by Sharron Rose at sharronrose.com).

        What is important to understand while discussing these huge numbers found in the Hindu texts is that they are describing the four ages within a context of understanding that each successive age is shorter than the previous age. The Satya Yuga, or the Golden Age, is one quarter longer than the Treta Yuga, or the Silver Age. The Treta Yuga is one quarter longer than the Dvapara Yuga, or the Bronze Age. Understanding these differences in the lengths of the ages becomes important to the following discussion.

        According to Fulcanelli and the cross at Hendaye, the alchemical Four Ages comprise the four quadrants of a 25,920 yearlong cycle called the precession of the equinoxes. Essentially, the precession of the equinoxes can be explained by the fact that our Earth has a wobble. Like a top spinning on the floor, as it begins to lose momentum this wobble of the earth takes nearly 26,000 years to unfold. The strange engraving of the four ‘A’s’ (see illustration A) on the cross of Hendaye is a "hieroglyph of the universe", according to Fulcanelli. It is "comprised of the conventional signs of heaven and earth, the spiritual and the temporal, the macrocosm and the microcosm, in which major emblems of the redemption (cross) and the world (circle) are found in association".



        The Precession of the Equinoxes

        What Fulcanelli appears to be saying here is that the precession of the equinoxes is to be divided into four distinct ages of 6480 years each (4 divided into 25,920) or, to round off the figures to approximately 6500 years each. This is also interesting because the zodiacal cycle, which lasts 25,920 years, has four fixed signs. These are the signs of Aquarius, Taurus, Leo and Scorpio. These four signs are separated by 6,500 years each. Also in the Book of Ezekiel and in the Book of Revelation we are told of the angel with four faces. This angel has the face of a Lion (Leo), a Bull (Taurus), a Man (the angel) and an Eagle (in older times Scorpio was represented by an eagle instead of a scorpion). Apparently, according to Fulcanelli, both of these books in the Bible are warnings and messages about the four quadrants of the precession of the equinoxes and appear to be telling us that there is some kind of great change whenever we arrive at one of these four signs.

        Of course it is well known that we are currently entering the Age of Aquarius. The Cross at Hendaye and Fulcanelli are telling us that there are tremendous changes to be found here on Earth when we enter into one of the four fixed signs. Apparently these changes can be cataclysmic.

        Obviously this 6,500 year long dating of the four alchemical ages disagrees with the Hindu Yuga system, which insists that each Yuga is of varying time lengths. It is in trying to iron out the dissimilarities in these two time periods that the hyperdimensional aspects of time can be best revealed.

        It is well known in modern physics that the four dimensional space, of which time is an aspect, is in the shape of a hypersphere. (see illustration B) This hypersphere appears similar to the shape of a donut, or a bagel. The energy, or the flow of the energy stream, within this hypersphere works like this: As shown in the illustration, the flow comes out of the bottom of the sphere, winds its way up around the outside edge, crosses the outside equator of the torus sphere and moves towards the hole in the top of this torus. The energy flow then begins to fall through the top of the hole and begins to spin in a vortex. This energy flow continues until it comes out of the bottom side of the torus where the energy flow begins its outward expansion again. This flow is continuous and, in a sense, is infinite."
        • Unsu...
           
          >It is well known in modern physics that the four dimensional space, of which time is an aspect, is in the shape of a hypersphere. (see illustration B) This hypersphere appears similar to the shape of a donut, or a bagel. The energy, or the flow of the energy stream, within this hypersphere works like this: As shown in the illustration, the flow comes out of the bottom of the sphere, winds its way up around the outside edge, crosses the outside equator of the torus sphere and moves towards the hole in the top of this torus. The energy flow then begins to fall through the top of the hole and begins to spin in a vortex. This energy flow continues until it comes out of the bottom side of the torus where the energy flow begins its outward expansion again. This flow is continuous and, in a sense, is infinite." <

          i watched the coolest show the other day about the toroidal vortices dolphins create.. a very rare behaviour that i'm guessing is what is explained in that there segment ^

          from www.zerotoys.com/newsite/l...cience.htm
          Toroidal vortices also occur in nature - Whirlpools, tornadoes, and hurricanes are all toroidal vortices. There may even be a galaxy in the shape of a toroidal vortex. The most impressive maker of toroidal vortices on earth are volcanoes. They can produce huge and very visible smoke and fog rings which rise hundreds of feet into the air and last as long as ten minutes. Scientists are still trying to understand the way a volcano produces these rings. Who knows, you might be the one who figures it out. Check out our links page!.

          The sun also produces Toroidal vortices. Solar flairs can send gigantic rings into space, but they aren’t the largest rings. That record goes to a star which exploded, creating a toroidal vortex a billion miles across!

          But the most fun example of a toroidal vortex is made by dolphins. Dolphins are sea-bound mammals and so breath air, but they spend a lot of time under water and have learned to hold their breath for a very long time. They have also learned to blow air ring bubbles, and to play with them. In fact, this is one of their favorite games. These bubbles normally float quickly to the surface. Dolphins never tire of watching bubble rings, but they also enjoy chasing and catching the rings they create. Kind of like how we play with soap bubbles. The clever dolphins also use their flukes and flippers to fan the bubble rings to keep them from rising. This gives them more time to play with their creation. They can even change the shape of the bubble rings they create. If you want to learn more about this fascinating subject, there is a group called Earthtrust who studies dolphins. Earthtrust has been studying how dophins seem to understand what they are creating and do it on purpose. Watching dolphins play with air rings is one of the ways people discovered what intelligent creatures they really are.
        • pp:*The first age is the Satya Yuga or the Golden Age according to Fulcanelli. The Hindu texts tell us that this age lasts 1,728,000 years.*
          Sun, June 22, 2008 - 1:51 PM
          add that with the rest, and give or take a few
          4.5 million years

          let's cut
          most profound inference: the ancients never knew
          or has it been omitted all this
          time?
          sure, nice sliceanddice job on the bible
          so what.
          born within...
          is the inert ability
          but first must learn...
          i know, i'm boring most
          once again
          sure is no humor hour over at survivalist tribe
          but before they kick me off there,
          the seed of awareness shall have been
          planted

          manjo, ever been to a strip bar?
  • Unsu...
     
    “We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do.”
    Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works
    • Unsu...
       
      sure we do. we've gone on the offensive with a number of nations to steal their technology. we are far more advanced than people realize.

      they already have bio weapons (or whatever you call it) to use on these dracos coming in. it targets reptilians.

      they are coming manjushri. i don't think your friends can stop this. i was told that they have many fleets... some ships are more than 20 miles long but less then 50. the military is freaked. there are two nations in route. one is friends with some here on earth. not sure which. i only get bits and pieces.

      the military has just about pissed off every nation that tries to help. all they want are more sophisticated weapons and to capture others in order to find out what parts are "useful" to them.

      also, they are trading souls for technology. it's gone beyond the human experimentation stuff. they're trading souls. they have the capability of extracting them.

      i have been under the assumption that this was within their own program for acension. it's not! our military is trading souls for technology. that's how bad it is.
      • Unsu...
         
        "they are coming manjushri. i don't think your friends can stop this. i was told that they have many fleets... some ships are more than 20 miles long but less then 50. the military is freaked. there are two nations in route. one is friends with some here on earth. not sure which. i only get bits and pieces."

        Indeed they are coming... I have known for about 14 years...

        But...

        My friends have 1,000,000s of ships and Star ships the size of... well stars... We are not worried... You are very misinformed on the numbers of dracos coming... Their numbers are suffering in this sector of the galaxy... There are many nations coming.... We have Syrians, Lyrans, Aucturians, Pleiadeans, Zeta, Nommus, We even have Draco and Orion on our side as well... Not to mention Andromedans (they live in a different Galaxy, but are here to help us...These guys are one of the most advanced species in our Local Super Cluster of Galaxies), just to name a few of the more well known groups, there are more here and coming than I can even Name here... They got some Zeta... some Orions... and the Draco.... That is it... with very low numbers and low end technology... Siriusly.... The people here that know...The Military and secret governments... are scared... So what... Many of them should be, they are going to pay for what they have done... Or they can leave with the Dracos and continue being slaves if they want... But it is evolve or leave time soon...

        I still don't think you are getting the power the GF has.... We have Dracos in the GF... We will soon out number the Dark Luciferian Dracos... We have the Dimensional Superiority (you know, like air superiority), We can travel to higher Dimensions than they can we can do exactly what they have done to Earth Humans exactly back to them... These Renegade Beings controlling the Earth Humans are nothing compared to what we have, they are children playing with matches compared to our plasma canons... I don't get bits and pieces Mia... I have the whole story... I sit on a very high counsel in the GF.

        They want you to be sacred... They are sacred... We are not. That is my whole message right now... Do not buy the fear they sell... They are currently in the works of Staging a Mock Invasion when the GF get here... But THEY are the INVADERS and have been here for almost 500,000 years.... The Beings that are coming here will not be the ones that should worry you... They are here now... You just can't see them all... Nibiru is here now... Back from Sirius... Just on the other side of the Sun.... Do not fear... Do not Worry... This will only Manifest what you don't want into existence... That is Their Game... Make us manifest our own Demise... Hence the Religious shit they shovel... Hence the Crisises they Make US BeLIEve is real... Remember there is a Force Field between 3-7 density... Dracos CAN NOT GET THROUGH... not the 3-5 density ones... if they are on the 6th Density... They have Universal Love for all beings... That part of the universes fail safe system... You can not get into higher dimensions with hate in your heart... So any being that can come here... is coming to help... There cybernetic greys that are here are technology... the Dol Universe Zeta "greys" got here dimensionally... and have a universal consciousnes, they have been about to love universally through that universal mind... and can go all the way up to 9th density... There are not many of these type of "greys" they only number in the 1000s...

        "i have been under the assumption that this was within their own program for acension. it's not! our military is trading souls for technology. that's how bad it is."

        That is what I have been saying this whole time... Why I call you a Double Agent... You are Working For GF.... But you are being USED by the Dark Forces to Spy on GF... Thus you are a Double Agent... The Secret Government, The Military Industrial Complex... The International Banks, The Oil Industry... The Royal Families all the way back to Sumer and Egypt... They are the ones you work for... They are the ones that want a New World Order... Ordo Ab Chao... Order out of Chaos... That phrase is actually above the front door of the High Lodge of Free Masonary in Switzerland... Where The International Bankers are...

        GF are the ones here for your Ascension Plan... The Illuminati want to control you and use you... We are here to liberate you. But you need to first understand... YOU CHOSE TO BE A DOUBLE AGENT... Otherwise you would be Shielded as I am... They can not do crap to me... Or anyone in a 50 foot radius around me... You can Chose to come back... I can ask about your assignment, if you would like... That is one of the ways to make this all stop for you. Many have broken free... Arizona Wilder... I have mentioned her... She is a survivor.
        • Unsu...
           
          You can Chose to come back... I can ask about your assignment, if you would like... That is one of the ways to make this all stop for you. Many have broken free... Arizona Wilder... I have mentioned her... She is a survivor.

          _______________

          you have my permission to zero away at my situation and space manjushri. just don't enter my body please.
          • Unsu...
             
            remember the day i offered you a *free pass* mia n a couple nights later you said you had the "shit beat outta" you for bein a "bad girl"?
            i had an 'experience' that night too [except not at the exact 'same time' cos i'm a few hours ahead of you] n i sure as hell hope that wasn't you.. i don't wanna doubt you but what the hell is Manjushri talkin about?
            i'm probably gettin it all mixed up but no matter i hope you got what it takes to negotiate and free yourself from these nasty powers that seem keen to invest in you.i'm a cat too, don't like seein curiosity get the better of people. go solo til this passes over. as in clear your mind banish the bastids. then again who am i to assist i don't know what your motivations are you may be righton track after all but i'm again givin you the benefit of the doubt.
            overnout cos i dunno what i'm talkin about
            • Unsu...
               
              remember the day i offered you a *free pass* mia...

              ___________

              yeah, you got me at a bad time, i didn't know where you were coming from and i lashed out. i apologize for my statement,

              • Unsu...
                 
                in all seriousness, i don't know what to say or think.

                i'm never one to air my problems, much less dirty laudry and all this self focus. i've said probably more than i should have. i've received some good information, advice, encouragement and meet some really good people along the way. you are all unique in so many ways.

                i don't know what to make of it all. i am a empathic, sensitive. never was an astral traveler, remote viewer or seer. just a simple empath, with clairaudience... traveling a simple road in life.

                khundalini syndrome, government control, alien control.. now i'm thinking all of the above.

                then i read that most abductees do experience the labratories and manipulations, etc. ... and a high number of them are rh negative blood types, which i am. there are all speculations on the rh negative factor. i am told that it is irrelevant in these times. many are being taken without their knowledge or understanding.

                they beat you down and it's hard to get back up. without the help of the Trinity of God and His Angels, i don't think i would be alive. it has been a very tough road for me this past year.

                i am seeing other good aliens (they don't care if we call them that btw) now. they have come inside... groups of them. i see angels taking off their wings and coming inside. they come through the solar plexus. it's a battle. i'm a portal of sort. i don't know where it goes though. i asked one of them how they knew to find me... they said it was obvious. it's funny... they help me go through the "cupboards and drawers" removing and cleaning... it's rather cute. then the little dark grays will sneak in and try to grab something... they are sneaky little guys. the light beings make them go back into the wall that they came out of.

                our bodies are like portals... with all sorts of caverns, roads, chambers, living areas.. etc. it's amazing. like wil says, there is so much metaphor... symbolism for sure.

                what happened is about a month ago i asked God that if it was His Will to allow good aliens to come into help then i was ok with that. now i think some of these aliens took this as an outright invitation... so they came. i didn't know who they were until recently. i did know about the angels because i saw them come in.. in large numbers. they took their wings off. i don't know what that symbolizes other than the fact that it is my understanding that angels do not inhabit people. so there are good "aliens" here as well. walkins bedo? the Holy Spirit says that they are high level life forms.

                i do believe that the military has opened rifts in the universe which have caused upset around the uiverse and outside of it. this is why some of these aliens have come. it has upset their area of the universe.. energy? i don't know what happened. all i know is that they are not happy. the angels spent a great deal of time talking with them last week about this.. holding them back. these particular entities had never heard of humans.. much less this part of the universe. they are high level energy of sort.. that's about all i know. i don't know what became of that situation. the military is also trading our souls for technology, knowledge and weapons.

                and the spiraling solar plexus that i have... well, from what i've seen that's a point of entry as well. i see a flaming, white ball just inside the chakra. when any darkness that tries to enter this chakra, i see it getting pushed back out. that is a good thing for sure to see.

                prior to this i was an open door with a welcome sign above my head. i traveled in there and would see all sorts.. even an indian warrior from long ago. he was searching the ground and walls for stones of sort. putting them in his leather pouch. some animal spirits.. of course the usual aliens and spirits. i think this portal is ... well, i don't know what it is. it's being monitored for sure. we are all portals.. if we're not careful, we can be open doors to all sorts of entities.

                i have seen my soul. it is fragmented, but there is still the biggest part inside of me. i see beings of light surrounding to protect. she is a quiet, young soul... not an old soul. she looks like a golden flame with eyes that are orange. she's little... images of a little girl. where the other fragments are i do not know.

                so i do have protection to a degree. most of the protection is being centered around my soul. a very large, crowned angel stays with her.

                they're after our souls. i firmly believe this.
                • Unsu...
                   
                  and yes, there is a high degree of mind control...

                  i don't discount anything.

                  these guys are masters at the fine art of messing with the human mind.

                  like i told hoopes... i'm working on trying to filter through what is real and what is not. it is a process.

                  his brainwashing post would also apply here as well i think. as humans we must always keep ourselves protected and safe.

                  i've found that sending light and love... well, the really nasty ones will back off. don't fight them, touch their stuff.. etc. just maintain peaceful interaction with them and calmly ask them what business do they have of being here and to please leave.
            • Unsu...
               
              remember the day i offered you a *free pass* mia n a couple nights later you said you had the "shit beat outta" you for bein a "bad girl"?
              i had an 'experience' that night too [except not at the exact 'same time' cos i'm a few hours ahead of you] n i sure as hell hope that wasn't you

              ____________

              what kind of experience did you have cali?

              i doubt you did that number... i hope you don't wield that type of force anyways!
              • Unsu...
                 
                i was half asleep.. and something came into my space.. i was kind of surprised at first because it had a life of its own.. not just one of my own imaginings if you know what i mean.. and it did something wacky i don't know if it lashed out or was trying to frighten me.. kind of like a lizard spreading its frills or a haka performance.. either way it was an act designed to freak me out [who knows maybe it got freaked out by my sudden awareness].. and so i reclaimed my space but it wouldn't leave.. it got vicious and kept leaping at me.. i took a few blows while i was taking no action so i could actually check out what it was doin.. then we exchanged a few blows while it seemed to shapeshift each time usually changing size n even though it didn't hurt a bit i started gettin real pissed off n fed up so i punched it outta my realm or somethin.. nowhere near hard enough to annihilate it.. i can't explain it but i projected a pretty lighthearted atmosphere on the whole event.. but once they were out i made some things pretty clear to them n hoped they'd do the right thing by the both of us n that lessons were learned.
                i woke up from it immediately wondering if it was you!! and i felt bad if i twas because i never actually made it clear that my offer was retracted once you replied in a pretty cut up tone.. but it was probably just a coincidence. i haven't had another one like that since. and i am pretty imaginative so it could have been somethin stupid i conjured up.

                what was your experience like?
                what colour knickers are you wearing? just kidding i blame myself for bein so naive as to post half the stuff i do on here too. who knows who's reading this stuff n what it means to them!!
                another thing we have in common mia last year i had a similar conversation with God.. but i didn't talk about aliens, just divine will
                • Unsu...
                   
                  no, i don't think that was me cali.

                  they call this negative reinformcement for "bad" behavior.

                  i got the hell shocked out of me... twice. everything turned into geometric shapes.. shifting. i was electrocuted. ... kinda like "shock therapy"

                  both times i couldn't get up and just rolled around in a daze. trying to speak but nothing came out. they then told me to stop and i said no. they did it again. i think i'm about due for another brain mri ...lol

                  there are a few individuals way up in the military who i see often. you all know of their names, which i will not repeat.

                  when i see them i get the crap beat out of me too. these are draco and counsel controlled individuals... way, way at the top.

                  i won't go into specifics on this, but they are doing some very bad things. the whole group of them... but there are two who i have dealt with on several occassions. these guys don't mess around

                  one thing i will repeat however is that the military is trading our souls! i can't say this enough. it's not just experimentation on us as a people that they've agreed to.

                  now last night (symbolically) i saw that these souls were going to some sort of lower entities. symbolically, one tried to swollow a soul but had to spit them back out. i told that guy that it didn't belong to him. he tried to swallow it anyways. it came back up and he had to spit it out. that was all i remember.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    since i'm on a roll i will add this tidbit.

                    people's spirits leave and talk to other spirits.

                    like you can be in a room full of people. your spirit can leave and go talk to another person's spirit. i've seen people's spirit leave and follow another person too.

                    doesn't have to be in a room.. it could be anywhere. your spirit has friends with other people's spirits. they like each other and visit often sometimes. you probably have no idea it is taking place.

                    maybe this is where they come up with the term kindred spirit.

                    it happens all the time. there is a connection, whether we consciously realize it or not.

                    maybe like... my spirit will come visit yours and ask if you'd like to "come out and play" or whatever. or vice-versa.

                    our spirits are alive and have high intelligence... whether we do or not..
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    okay but i'm really sorry if it was n even if it wasn't me argh i feel bad for you mia
                    i injected my scenario with a youtube.com/watch theme it was ridiculous!
                    and while i say it didn't hurt i did experience psychic discomfort.. i don't know if you're meaning you couldn't move in the psychic space or in your conscious state but that's hardcore if that was the effect after you 'woke up'
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      it woke me up... i was fully awake when that one happened.

                      i could crawl around on the bed, but there was no way i would have been able to stand. it was not painful per se... it was, i dunno... like being electrocuted. is that painful or is it just a bad sensation?

                      could be alien... could be definately military "non-lethal" warfare, which i believe. they can zap you from sattelites. read up on it.

                      it sure wasn't a seizure. doctors checked me for those.

                      now, stop what you're doing.... they say..

                      they always say.
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        i wouldn't know where to even start reading up on that.
                        surely your angels and spirit guides are concerned for your welfare i can't imagine that they'd want to see you put yourself in the dangerous places you do unless that is precisely your destiny.. to go where angels fear to tread!
                        humans are vessels and conduits after all. designed to go either way.
                        k i'm loggin out have a nice day mia adios my little pony
    • This is precisely the confusion. The technology may exist but the biology is not ready.

      When a ship transmutates through a wormhole, so must the contents of the ship.

      The biology is on a whole other wavelength and frequency and will restrict the movement if loaded with physical and mental toxins.

      The irony, those that know about the technology are generally less able to 'travel'.
      • Unsu...
         
        a great deal of what is going on is interdimensionally. much of this is not in 3d necessarily. just because it's not visual in 3d doesn't mean it's not there, nor the fact that it has no impact.

        there is a great deal of traveling and fighting going on.

        rifts have been opened up. i don't know what that means though.

        we are much further along than one could imagine. at least this is my gut feeling and what i am seeing... albeit in bits and pieces.

        as far as biology... i don't know. i do see alot of beings being created in labratories.... altering as well.

        i don't discount anything anymore.
        • Unsu...
           
          as far as a worm hole... i believe that astrally i have been through a few.

          symbolically they looked like spiraling, ribbed tapeworms, so i assume that they were worm holes.

          i distinctly remember being told by an angel to HOLD ON and get ready. they were very firm in this advise.

          things exploded and spun fast... and you go through them fast. i would imagine that alot gets destroyed in them. had the angel thought i couldn't have made it through they would have never let me in there.

          i don't remember where i was going... it's been months since i've seen one of those. i didn't see them often though.

          maybe they shut some of them down.. i dunno.
        • Unsu...
           
          Indeed... That is exactly what I am talking about... We, The GF... are doing higher Dimensional Stuff to the Dracos as we speak... We can go to much higher Dimensions than they can or any Dark Being for that matter... That is why the are Afraid... They have no clue the true numbers... But from what they have already seen... We have the Technological Superiority and Out number them several thousand to one... With a total Lock Down on all their Technology... GIG IS WAY UP... We are just waiting for them to:
          A. Surrender (never know... but not likely)
          B. Leave (only way to is through the portal Tech we gave them and monitor or through the force field/stargate when we open it)
          C. Try some sort of Hostage/Threat scenario where they want to destroy the planet (not likely, but that would give the GF all the authority in the universe to come in and intervene then...Including Time Travel)

          It is in fact a Check Mate on The GF side... Time must pass... We are Obiding by Inter-Galactic Laws... The only reason it has gone on so long... You do understand... It would be a violation of Free Will to not go through these proper channels... Earth Humans have willingly given away their power in exchange for toys... These toys turned out to be destructive too....lol
  • "If that wasn't enough it also marks the day when the winter solstice sun passes through the Galactic Center..."

    Manjushri, you don't seem to have learned much from an exchange we had beginning on Mon, February 4, 2008 - 6:58 AM in this thread:

    2012.tribe.net/thread/650...3d6061512f3

    You wrote, ""On that day the Winter Solstice Sun will pass through the Galactic Center, an event that only happens once every 25,627."

    I wrote, "That ain't so. Do your research."

    Remember???

    Just repeating something won't make it so, though research shows that it WILL make people believe it is so. Especially if untruths are repeated in the context of heightened fear and anxiety. It's called brainwashing.
    • Unsu...
       
      Yes, It was a Classic Example of you blatantly Arguing... Instead of Debating... If I remember correctly... Which I do.. You never proved me wrong... and ended up nit picking that it does not occult Sagittarius A*... Which I do not say it does... I am referring to a larger section of Sky that the Ancients call the Galactic Center... Not the Relatively small spot that is were SGR A * is located... I am glad you brought it up... As anyone that reads the thread can see this... And is exactly what Jenkins will tell you... It is not needed for What I say to be true...

      Peace

      Om A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhih Dhih Dhih

      and a few more Dhih Dhih Dhih Dhih

      We Love you Hoopes
      • "I am referring to a larger section of Sky that the Ancients call the Galactic Center..."

        Gee, I wish you'd explained that better the first time. Which "Ancients" do you mean?

        You've been giving me a hard time about references. Specifically in what text (and language) do "the Ancients" call something "the Galactic Center"? How, exactly, do you know that what they meant (if in fact they ever referred to this) is what you intend it to mean?

        How much larger a section of the sky do you mean? If it's a really large section, it seems unlikely that the event you describe really occurs once ever 26,000 years or so.

        You're fudging and you know it. I think others do, too.
        • Unsu...
           
          It all as to do with the Galactic Plane or Galactic Equator... Which is created by the Galactic Center, the Giant Black Hole creates an almost paper thin plane across the Galaxy... This Paper thin plane of Intense Gravity is what The Sun and Earth Align With... As I have Shown everyone Clearly in the Photos in my profile I urged everyone to check to "See" what I meant... I just saw a Great video on YouTube that shows this...

          au.youtube.com/watch

          "Gee, I wish you'd explained that better the first time. Which "Ancients" do you mean? "

          I Still Think I did a fine job of explaining it... As you are the only one that really did not seem to understand... But Really, You just asked the wrong questions... You asked what the Galactic Center was, which was what really got us off track and is probably where it got confused.

          I pretty much mean all the Ancients... As pretty much every culture has a zodiac that has to do with the precession of the equinoxes... All that the Mayans really say is that the Winter Solstice Sun passes through the Galactic Rift as the Sun, Galactic Equator and Geocentric Horizon Align. That is Thea "Area" Near Sgr A*... Which is why I kept saying.. Alignment... Not Occultation. However I do believe it gets close enough for a conjunction, though I have not measured the angles yet...
        • Unsu...
           
          "How much larger a section of the sky do you mean? If it's a really large section, it seems unlikely that the event you describe really occurs once ever 26,000 years or so."

          The Ancients Knew of the Galactic Bulge...

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulge_(astronomy)

          And Considered it to be the center of the Galaxy... They were Right... That is in fact where the Galactic Center is located... This is The Area they are Referring to. They never said... Nor did I... that the Sun Occults The Exact Center.. Or Sgr A*... The Galactic Plane is visible in the night sky...

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_equator

          Or if you just check out Google Earth you can even see... that the area near the center looks like a Snakes Head... This is where the Idea of Ouroboros comes from... Check it out... It literally looks like a Snake Eating It's Tail... and that really does seem to encircle the Earth...

          en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouroboros

          "You're fudging and you know it. I think others do, too. "

          LOL no... I just don't care if you get it or not... I encourage you to do your own research... I am not here to debate once again...

          But in fairness I do understand what you mean...

          1. It takes 36 years for the Position of the Winter Solstice Sun to 'Pass Through' The Galactic Equator... So for 36 years, Every Year, The Winter Solstice Sun will Occult the Galactic Equator...With one year... 2012... that it actually Aligns...

          2. Since about the 1600s The Winter Solstice Sun Passes Through The Area Called the Galactic Center AKA Galactic Bulge(Spirit Road, Mouth of the Snake, Mouth of the Frog. Ect. Ect), Every Year, This will Continue until about 2800... This is caused by the Precession of the Equinoxes...

          www.space.com/snserver/sn...&Explore=No&

          www.space.com/snserver/sn...&Explore=No&

          www.space.com/snserver/sn...&Explore=No&

          The Winter Solstice Sun only Aligns once every 26,000 or so... And the Summer Solstice Sun only Aligns every 26,000 years or so... A Solstice Sun Aligns every 13,000 years or so...

          This IS exactly what I told you the First Time... Note the Term Galactic Equator...

          alignment2012.com/whatisGA.htm

          " It is important to define what the Galactic Alignment is in precise astronomical terms. (See the Glossary below for terms.)

          The Galactic Alignment is the alignment of the December solstice sun with the Galactic equator. This alignment occurs as a result of the precession of the equinoxes.

          Precession is caused by the earth wobbling very slowly on its axis and shifts the position of the equinoxes and solstices one degree every 71.5 years. Because the sun is one-half of a degree wide, it will take the December solstice sun 36 years to precess through the Galactic equator (see diagram below).

          The precise alignment of the solstice point (the precise center-point of the body of the sun as viewed from earth) with the Galactic equator was calculated to occur in 1998 (Jean Meeus, Mathematical Astronomy Morsels, 1997).

          Thus, the Galactic Alignment "zone" is 1998 +/- 18 years = 1980 - 2016. This is "era-2012."

          This Galactic Alignment occurs only once every 26,000 years, and was what the ancient Maya were pointing to with the 2012 end-date of their Long Count calendar. "

          I actually Take it a Step further... Not only does the Winter Solstice Sun Align with the Galactic Equator... But they Align with the Ecliptic Equator ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic ) and the Geocentric Equator ( en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Astr...e_Systems) of Earth... And all that is in Alignment with Pleiades... That IS what I mean... An Extremely Rare Event to say the Least... It does in fact only happen once every 26,000 years... I even Posted, LAST TIME, an article from an Astro Physicist stating the same... This Event only happens every 26,000 years... Of course that is an over estimate... I gave much more curate numbers using the Mayan Calendar. 25,627 is a lot closer...
          • Unsu...
             
            I think it is interesting to note, that the Winter Solstice Sun was not near the Galactic Center at all when the Baktun Long Count began... 3114BC

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baktun What a Baktun is.

            www.webexhibits.org/calendar...ayan.html More General Info on the Mayan Calendar, including the start date of the current cycle.

            www.sacred-texts.com/time/ca...acal.htm More Great Info From Sacred Texts...

            Well, I could not get the web version of Starry Night to go back past 999 BCE... But you can clearly see the Sun IS NOT anywhere near the Galactic Center... It would be even further away in 3114 BCE...

            www.space.com/snserver/sn...&Explore=No&

            So Ancient Mayans... Predicted a Winter Solstice Alignment with the Sun and the Galactic, Ecliptic and Geocentric Equators... 5139.33 Years before it happens... Not too bad...
            • "So Ancient Mayans... Predicted a Winter Solstice Alignment with the Sun and the Galactic, Ecliptic and Geocentric Equators... 5139.33 Years before it happens... Not too bad..."

              Or, as Mayanist Munro Edmonson suggested in his 1988 book "The Book of the Year : Middle American Calendrical Systems," they figured out the 2012 baktun ending FIRST and then projected backwards from it.

              According to current thinking, the earliest development of the Maya calendar may date back as far as about 1500 BC, when people living in the Mazatan region of Soconusco (the territory on the coast between Chiapas and Guatemala) built structures encoded with standard measurements representing numbers such as 13, 20, 260, and 365.

              See Prudence Rice's 2007 book "Maya Calendar Origins: Monuments, Mythistory, and the Materialization of Time":
              www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/ricmya.html

              She explains how the calendar became the basis for the generation of historical myths that asserted and strengthened the claims to power of ancient Maya kings, and extension of her theories about the "may", a calendrical unit of 13 katuns that was used to structure how seats of power moved among ancient Maya kingdoms.
              • Unsu...
                 
                That's nice... But really makes no sense when you realize the Mayan had already been through 4 long counts... Since the last end of the World Age... (5 Baktun = 1 World Age) When they started in 3114BC... This will be the 5th Baktun and 5th World Age since... According to the Mayans... They started counting... We will be entering the 5th World According the The Maya... Oddly this is the Same as what Hopi, Navajo, Zu Lu, and Australians Aborigines will tell you...Just to name a few.... But that goes back to everyone all over the world measuring the precession of the Equinox....
          • "The Ancients Knew of the Galactic Bulge... And Considered it to be the center of the Galaxy... "

            Well, no. They didn't even know what a "galaxy" was, much less that it could have a center. For them, it was an intriguing feature in the sky. They didn't know anything about galaxies. How could they?

            Unless the aliens told them...
            • Unsu...
               
              "Well, no. They didn't even know what a "galaxy" was, much less that it could have a center. For them, it was an intriguing feature in the sky."

              Actually they did know what a Galaxy was and they Knew The Galactic Bulge was the Area near the Galactic Center...

              You are doing what most White Folk do... And Assuming.... Whenever you see a G motif pattern in Native American Culture or Hear a Native American Say Heya while Chanting... Those are both Representatives of our Milky Way Galaxy... Not only did the Maya know what a Galaxy was... But they knew we were in a Spiral Galaxy and know we are in an out spiral arm.... And Yes... They KNEW what the bulge in the Milky Way was... That they could See it in the Night Sky, every night... They Knew it Was the Galactic Center... Or the Area that it was located...

              "They didn't know anything about galaxies. How could they? "

              LMAO... Study Mayan Astronomy/Astrology, and Cosmology before saying things like that.... For one... The Tzolk'in is Actually based on cycles and movements of the Pleiades... And then integrated with the Haab... Which is the Earth Calendar...

              2. Their Mythology, Symbology, Astrology, Astronomy, Mathematics, and Observatories... All indicate they knew a Great Deal about the Night Sky... They had Special Jaguar Priests that lived in total darkness for years to get their eyes adjusted for seeing the Stars at night in the observatories... A 6 year old Mayan Jaguar Priest knew more about the night sky than you do Hoopes... (I would say just joking... but I am not so sure I am joking... based on what you have said here on tribe, but in all fairness the 6 year old probably knows more than 90% of the US population)

              "Unless the aliens told them... "

              Well yea, they will tell you this too... All Humans... According to the Mayans... Were Made by Beings from the Stars... They will tell you Very Bluntly too... No wonder the Atlantian controlled Churches wanted to burn and destroy all the Mayan Books/Codices and Monuments... Out of the Literal thousands of Codices.. There are less than a dozen around still today....

              this is from Aluna Joy's Site...

              What is the Mayan Calendar?
              The Maya understood 20 different Calendars based on the Cosmos. Some of these calendars go back as far as ten million years and are so difficult that you would need an astronomer, astrologer, geologist, and a mathematician just to work out the calculations. Lucky for us we only need to work with three of these calendars. The calendars that are most important to beings of earth are the Haab and the Tzolk'in. The Tzolk'in is the most important and the one with the most influence for humanity.

              The Haab is based in the cycles of earth. It has 360 + 5 days, totaling 365 days. The Haab uses 18 months with 20 days in each month. There is a 19th month called a Vayeb and uses the 5 extra days. Each month has it's own name/glyph. Each day uses a sacred sun/glyph.

              The Tzolk'in is the Sacred calendar of the Maya and is based on the cycles of the Pleiades. The cycle of the Pleiades uses 26,000 years, but is reflected in the calendar we are using by encompassing 260 days. It uses the sacred numbers 13 and 20. The 13 represents the numbers and 20 represents the sun/glyphs. The Tzolk'in has four smaller cycles called seasons of 65 days each guarded by the four suns of Chicchan, Oc, Men and Ahau. There are also Portal days within the Tzolk'in that create a double helix pattern using 52 days and the mathematics of 28. This sacred calendar is still being used for divination by the traditional Maya all over the Yucatan, Guatemala, and Belize, and Honduras.

              During their stay on earth the Cosmic Maya carried the burden of time. Cosmicly aware of cycles of time they were bound, as we are, by walking through time in a linear fashion. They were aware that beings of earth had lost the natural ability to ride the cycles of time/light/energy, to time travel. It is also known by the Cosmic Maya that this present linear fashion of time will transform into multidimensionality, and will not be limited to linear time on earth much longer. Now isn't this why we came here to remember and to witness at this time? Do you remember?
              • Unsu...
                 
                Damn... I am Nice... Here... Enjoy...

                members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/glyphs.html

                "The World Tree is the most pervasive Maya symbol of the creation and ordering of the world. It is the axis of the Earth-Sky. Its roots lie in the Underworld, Xibalba, and its top reaches into the heavens. In the post-Conquest Books of Chilam Balam, it is named Yax Imix Che, (first or green ceiba tree), "raised in the middle of the world." It is named in the Temple of the Cross at Palenque as the Wakah Chan, the "raised up sky."

                The World Tree is symbolized by the Milky Way. On the night of August 13, the date of creation, the Milky Way stands erect at dawn, running through the zenith from north to south. It becomes the axis of the heavens, the raised up sky. See "Raising the Sky: The Maya Creation Myth and the Milky Way"

                "The ecliptic is also represented by the two-headed "Cosmic Monster." The front head may have deer ears or hooves, and is almost always marked with the Venus glyph. The rear head usually has a fleshless jaw, and is almost always marked with a k'in (sun) sign. The monster's body is either a sky band or reptile. As a two-headed snake, it appears as the "serpent bar," an emblem of royal authority carried by rulers.

                For more about the Cosmic Monster and related symbols, see Bruce Marcot's "Abstract symbol links in Ancient America" web page. "

                members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/p...ecross.html

                Lid of sarcophagus of Pakal (Left) shows the dead ruler falling along the axis of the World Tree, the Milky Way or "white road", sak be, into the Under world. (Pyamid of the Inscriptions).

                "Temples of the Cross Group consists of three structures, the Temple
                of the Cross, Temple of the Foliated Cross, and Temple of the Sun. When the temples were dedicated in 690 AD, the moon was in conjunction with Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn, likely thought to represent the reuniting of First Mother and her sons, the three deities of the "Palenque triad ," whose births are reported in inscriptions of the Cross Group.

                The World Tree is depicted as a symbol of the Milky Way, the Wakah Chan ("Raised-up Sky") in the Temple of the Cross. On the dates assigned to centering of the world at Creation of the present era, the Milky Way stands erect in the sky at dawn.

                In the Temple of the Foliated Cross, the World Tree is the Na Te K'an ("First Precious Tree"), a symbol of the sky-raising Maize God Hun-Nal-Ye. "

                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meso...world_tree

                www.awarenessmag.com/julaug0...orld.htm

                maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/pdf.php

                www.crystalinks.com/mayanmythology.html

                mayankids.com/mmkbeliefs/worldtree.htm


                • Unsu...
                   
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    Even more stuff... Oh that last one shows you the Glyphs for the Zodiac... Sag is a RattleSnake... WhooT...

                    members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/creation.html

                    That one is the Creation Myth... Talks about the Milky Way...

                    "Linda Schele discovered that the World Tree is a literal depiction of the heavens as well as an abstract symbol. Her investigations, vividly recounted in Maya Cosmos, led her to the conclusion that the Milky Way is the World Tree. The Maya long count was initiated on or about August 13 in 3114 BC, the date of Creation. At dawn in mid-August, the Milky Way stands erect, running through the zenith from north to south. It becomes the axis of the heavens, the raised up sky.

                    But the connection between Creation and the Milky Way does not end here. Schele discovered that the changing aspect of the Milky Way on the night of August 13 every year reflects the events recorded in Maya accounts of Creation."
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      members.shaw.ca/mjfinley/a...nomers.html

                      Accuracy without instruments

                      "We now know that the Maya knew the exact length of the true solar year as 365.2420 days, that is, with a minus error of 0.0002, while our present Gregorian calendar has it at 365.2425, or a plus error of 0.0003." (William Gates, Yucatan Before and After the Conquest)

                      Maya astronomers determined astronomical constants with remarkable accuracy. In our technological age, their feats seems incredible, if not impossible, without telescopes, clocks and measuring devices. But we have forgotten what can be achieved by careful naked eye observation using simple instruments, or even no instruments at all.



                      Modern (days) As recorded by the Maya Maya in days Ptolemy
                      Lunar (synodic) month 29.53059 405 lunations = 46 tzolk'ins (260 x 46 = 11,960 days) 29.53086 29.53337
                      Synodic period of Venus 583.93 301 periods = 676 tzolk'ins ( 260 x 676 = 175,760 days) 583.92027 583.94267
                      Synodic period of Mars 779.94 1 period = 3 tzolk'ins (3 x 260 = 780 days) 780 779.94
                      Solar (tropical) year 365.24198 1507 tropical years = 1508 haabs (365 x 1508 days) 365.242 365.24667


                      Dresden Eclipse table
                      Maya sky watchers used methods similar to those of other ancient astronomers. The Greek astronomer Ptolemy would have understood and appreciated the star craft of a Maya scribe from Copan. What was required, above all else, was careful observation over long periods of time.

                      For example, the Dresden Codex eclipse table tracks the phases of the moon over 405 lunar months, 11,960 days. If you watch the moon for a few months, you'll discover that the lunar month (the time from new moon to new moon) usually alternates between 29 and 30 days, giving an average of 29.5 days. Watch longer, and you'll discover that two 30 day lunar months sometimes occur in succession: The 29.5 day average isn't quite correct.

                      If you watch long enough to discover that the 405th new moon arrives 11,960 days after the 1st, you will achieve the accuracy of the eclipse table: 11,960/405 = 29.53086 days.
                      • The Maya didn't do the kind of accounting correction that we do with leap years. Therefore, their calendar actually contained a fair amount of "slippage" that accumulated over time.

                        "In our technological age, their feats seems incredible, if not impossible, without telescopes, clocks and measuring devices."

                        Well, no. Not really. In fact, all it really requires are a regular counting of days, careful skywatching, and written notation. Many ancient cultures were able to accomplish this long before telescopes or clocks were invented.

                        Just because you'd probably search for a calculator if faced with a complex problem of long division or determining a square or cube root doesn't mean it can be done easily by hand. Isaac Asimov wrote a cool sci-fi story called "A Feeling of Power" about this in 1958:

                        www.themathlab.com/writings...eling.htm

                        Just because people don't remember the techniques for doing this stuff doesn't mean they should baffle and amaze. There was a time (not so very long ago) when soap was made by hand from wood ashes and bacon fat.
              • "Actually they did know what a Galaxy was and they Knew The Galactic Bulge was the Area near the Galactic Center..."

                No, they didn't. The structure of a galaxy--even the Milky Way--can't be seen with the naked eye.

                "Whenever you see a G motif pattern in Native American Culture or Hear a Native American Say Heya while Chanting... Those are both Representatives of our Milky Way Galaxy..."

                Says who? How did you come to that conclusion? Even if something is representative of the Milky Way (which IS visible to the naked eye), it's a far stretch to say that this indicates understanding of the structure of a galaxy. How do you get to the "Heya" interpretation?

                "Study Mayan Astronomy/Astrology, and Cosmology before saying things like that...."

                Umm. I have. Much more than you, I bet.

                "in all fairness the 6 year old probably knows more than 90% of the US population"

                Knows? In what sense? There are plenty of 6-year-olds in the U.S. who know plenty about planets, galaxies, black holes, and even the age of the universe. They also tend to know a hell of a lot about dinosaurs. You are talking through your sombrero, my friend.

                "All Humans... According to the Mayans... Were Made by Beings from the Stars..."

                According to *which* Mayas? When? Where? Just provide one clear, credible reference and I'll be satisfied.

                "Out of the Literal thousands of Codices.. "

                How do you know that, since they were burned? Bishop Landa reported hundreds, not thousands.

                "The Maya understood 20 different Calendars based on the Cosmos. Some of these calendars go back as far as ten million years and are so difficult that you would need an astronomer, astrologer, geologist, and a mathematician just to work out the calculations."

                Oh yeah? You seem to be taking this on faith.

                "The Tzolk'in is the Sacred calendar of the Maya and is based on the cycles of the Pleiades."

                I haven't seen such a thorough exposition of calendar mythology (or mythology about the ancient Maya) in a while. Good luck with dealing with so much disinformation.
                • Unsu...
                   
                  "Says who? How did you come to that conclusion? Even if something is representative of the Milky Way (which IS visible to the naked eye), it's a far stretch to say that this indicates understanding of the structure of a galaxy. How do you get to the "Heya" interpretation? "

                  These are not interpretations... This is my culture... I am an Initiated Native American Shamen... But once again... I am not the only one saying this... Go and look and read the writings of Native American Elders... I was personally Told this Very Bluntly on several occasions by Seminole, Mayan, Hopi, Lakota, and Navajo Shamens... Go to a Pow Wow and ask...

                  ""The Maya understood 20 different Calendars based on the Cosmos. Some of these calendars go back as far as ten million years and are so difficult that you would need an astronomer, astrologer, geologist, and a mathematician just to work out the calculations."

                  Oh yeah? You seem to be taking this on faith. "

                  LOL... You must not have seen "This is from Aluna Joy's site". Cause' That was after I said the rest was from Aluna Joy... Not me... But I agree with what she says here... On faith?... No... From talking to the Quiché living Mayan Elders and Day Keepers... From Studying the Mayans Calendars and their Cosmology... Not sure where Faith comes in... Once again none of this stuff is Scientifically Debated... It is all Accepted... If you Studied this you would find it out very quickly. This is what you would be taught at any University or College... So not sure what your Trip is....
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    I guess you just want me to jump through Hoops.... Aye, Hoopes?
                    • "Then I was standing on the highest mountain of them all, and round about beneath me was the whole hoop of the world. And while I stood there I saw more than I can tell and I understood more than I saw; for I was seeing in a sacred manner the shapes of all things in the spirit, and the shape of all shapes as they must live together like one being. And I saw that the sacred hoop of my people was one of many hoops that made one circle, wide as daylight and as starlight, and in the center grew one mighty flowering tree to shelter all the children of one mother and one father. And I saw that it was holy." -- Black Elk
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        Beautiful... I see that sometimes too...

                        Which is why I don't worry about you Hoopes... I know you will find the truth... or at least your own Truth... In the End... We all do...

                        Just don't forget... I am not telling you your truth, I am telling you my own. I never said you had to listen or believe...
                        • "Just don't forget... I am not telling you your truth, I am telling you my own."

                          I don't sense that. I sense a "cut and paste" worldview - not that there's anything wrong with that but don't confuse worldview with truth - they are two different things.
                          • Unsu...
                             
                            'I don't sense that. I sense a "cut and paste" worldview - not that there's anything wrong with that but don't confuse worldview with truth - they are two different things."

                            Most of what I post I wrote myself... Some of the quick replies and citations are cut and paste... but that is it... What is your point... I am talking about What I have Wrote not my Citations... And in that particular sentence was in reference to a an answer I gave on another thread a awhile back... So I am not sure what you are talking about... But Thanks for you input...
                            • "Most of what I post I wrote myself... Some of the quick replies and citations are cut and paste... but that is it... What is your point... I am talking about What I have Wrote not my Citations... And in that particular sentence was in reference to a an answer I gave on another thread a awhile back..."

                              My point is that nothing you've written is original in any sense of the word. It is all regurgitated stuff that has been around for awhile. You are a walking encyclopedia of new age trivia - not that there's anything wrong with that but you repackage this stuff as "truth".

                              "So I am not sure what you are talking about... But Thanks for you input..."

                              Condescending thanks is exactly what I'm talking about. You are not spiritually superior as much as you would like to think so. This is just another exercise of an ego out of control. This is a lesson you must learn if you truly want to call yourself Shaman.
                            • manjo: it may be a tad tough to slip by what you have stated
                              who should really care?
                              here, me and les and dju try to 're/educate' hoo...and
                              why?
                              because he is only one that takes for granted...
                              but the biggest problem FOR ALL on this earth
                              is the most important and THE MOST IMPRESSIVE...
                              YOUR...health

                              (gee, this is finally getting fun)
                              anyways

                              those on the journey, coming from not so much the background
                              but the TRUE EXPERIENCE
                              of being clean
                              inside
                              no, i do not have paypal
                              yet

                              but: WISDOM IS NEITHER GIVEN OR TAKEN
                              it can be, as it should, only
                              learned

                              venom is sometimes spewed, as i once saw from dju, and then les
                              i thought, almost deep down...loons, take it easy
                              but until this morning when i had to go look up something so essential for life:
                              salt
                              the rage inside began...
                              because this, as life, is so elementary...
                              wordcounter???
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "This is my culture... I am an Initiated Native American Shamen... But once again... I am not the only one saying this..."

                    Oh, I get it. So the "truth" of this is sort of like the truth of the Book of Genesis, the Red Sea parting, the Crucifixion and Resurrection, etc. Sort of like the 16 million Mormons who believe in the truth of the Book of Mormon. Faith makes it "truth", right?

                    "You must not have seen 'This is from Aluna Joy's site'."

                    Yes, I saw that. But you are repeating it as if you believe it. That's what I was commenting upon.

                    "Once again none of this stuff is Scientifically Debated... It is all Accepted... If you Studied this you would find it out very quickly. This is what you would be taught at any University or College... So not sure what your Trip is...."

                    Sorry, but that's just not so. It's not how science works (by "accepting" stuff) or how ancient Maya culture is taught. I provided a link to this recent book before, but you haven't said yet whether you've considered it or not:

                    Maya Calendar Origins: Monuments, Mythistory, and the Materialization of Time, by Prudence Rice (2007)
                    www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/ricmya.html

                    It was published last year by the University of Texas (where Linda Schele taught). Rice has another book in a series that commemorates Schele:

                    Maya Political Science: Time, Astronomy, and the Cosmos, by Prudence Rice (2004)
                    www.utexas.edu/utpress/books/ricmay.html

                    If you're relying on the interpretations in Maya Cosmos (1993), you're about 15 years behind.

                    I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you do seem to pride yourself on your knowledge. These books will help you to augment it by understanding that the issues are far more complex than you like to paint them as being.
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      "I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you do seem to pride yourself on your knowledge. These books will help you to augment it by understanding that the issues are far more complex than you like to paint them as being."

                      Offering Books is not Disrespectful... Thank you...

                      When you argue, instead of debate... That is when you are Disrespectful... When you Assume without even beginning to study the subject, that also is when you are disrespectful...

                      "Yes, I saw that. But you are repeating it as if you believe it. That's what I was commenting upon"

                      Oh... Well once again... I Have studied many of the many calendars, I know what she was saying was true... I am not going on faith... The numbers she quotes are all accurate...

                      "Sorry, but that's just not so. It's not how science works (by "accepting" stuff) or how ancient Maya culture is taught. I provided a link to this recent book before, but you haven't said yet whether you've considered it or not: "

                      I am in know what saying Accept anything... I do in fact say Question everything I am saying... And go out and Study... I am saying you will find similar results to what I have posted here... No matter what University you went to, this is what you would be told... Or if you go and ask a Mayan Elder today... Same thing, same answers... Though the Mayan Elder will probably be able to explain Mayan Culture and Understanding a lot better... Any way Hoopes... I am not being Disrespectful, I do take what you are saying into consideration. Please go out and study the subjects if they interest you... I do like how you draw out more and more information Hoopes... Seems you have helped me prove my points and fill in gaps that others might have needed help with as well... I just wish you used a less argumentative tone...

                      I think both the books by Prudence M. Rice are very interesting... And Also have nothing to do with what I am saying... But good stuff... Very Provocative...

                      "If you're relying on the interpretations in Maya Cosmos (1993), you're about 15 years behind. "

                      Nope... That was just handy at the time... I put minimal effort into these responses....

                      As far as info goes... I am very up to date.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    "LOL... You must not have seen "This is from Aluna Joy's site"."

                    -----

                    Is this the same Aluna Joy from Sedona? (click click) So it is. She's more interested in selling essence of crop circles these days.
                    There's something suspicious about her, and a few of these whiter than spirit sedona shawomen.
                    For instance, while looking for that particular quote you put down, Manju, there was no references. but I found it here:

                    www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/94july.html

                    She's copyrighted that, and if she's using here Aluna Joy monicker, then I'm assuming it one of ther channels. But, it seems an almost verbatim copy of this text (see page 3) www.lost-civilizations.net/maya....html where its claimed there were only 17 calendars.

                    so how credible is she as a source of your research?
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      Yup that's the one... She is fun...

                      She is not a source of my research data... Though her Site does have Accurate info... And I have read a lot of her work... As well as letters from Elder Mayan Daykeepers and other Native Elders... Such as Hunbatz Men... Who she has worked with... She has some good letters on her site... I just reposted them on the Messages from the Stars thread...

                      I do agree she, like so many others, has sold out to some extent... This does not mean she does not know here stuff... I do like her Mayan/Pleiadean Cosmology/Astrology book... Much better stuff than José Argüelles...
                    • "so how credible is she as a source of your research?"

                      Thanks for the links, Chontler. I was intrigued by the first paragraph of her essay (dated July 1994):

                      "The Ancient Maya, and the remains of their cosmic culture, are still enshrouded in mystery and confusion. To this day, much of what archeologists base their findings upon is founded on guesses, not facts. Theories and speculations fill the history books. It looks like we may never understand what the Maya are saying to us. Like a giant cosmic joke, the riddles and puzzles left behind by the Maya are still as much of a mystery today, as they were when they were first discovered by the Spanish."
                      www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/94july.html

                      What archaeologists knew about the ancient Maya was conveniently confused (and therefore utterly dismissable) in 1994. I guess the whole 2012 thing has made it all crystal clear (though she made no mention of it then).

                      "founded on guesses, not facts"

                      That was far from true in 1994, and it's far less true today. A good *introductory* text is this one:

                      The Ancient Maya, 6th Edition, by Robert J. Sharer and Loa Traxler
                      www.amazon.com/Ancient-Ma...0804748179/

                      At 3.4 pounds and 931 pages, I assure you it's filled with lots and lots of facts!

                      "It looks like we may never understand what the Maya are saying to us."

                      I guess "we" and "us" wasn't intended to include the Maya themselves, millions of whom are conversing among themselves and laughing at white people who remain largely clueless about what they're actually saying. I'd love to know what they have to say about Aluna Joy Yaxkin's Sacred Site Essences:

                      www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/essences.html

                      Some giant cosmic joke?

                      terraexperience.com/guatemal..._wage.htm
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        '"The Ancient Maya, and the remains of their cosmic culture, are still enshrouded in mystery and confusion. To this day, much of what archeologists base their findings upon is founded on guesses, not facts. Theories and speculations fill the history books. It looks like we may never understand what the Maya are saying to us. Like a giant cosmic joke, the riddles and puzzles left behind by the Maya are still as much of a mystery today, as they were when they were first discovered by the Spanish."
                        www.kachina.net/~alunajoy/94july.html

                        What archaeologists knew about the ancient Maya was conveniently confused (and therefore utterly dismissable) in 1994. I guess the whole 2012 thing has made it all crystal clear (though she made no mention of it then).

                        "founded on guesses, not facts"

                        That was far from true in 1994, and it's far less true today. A good *introductory* text is this one:"


                        Well... Sounds more like Her Opinions to me Hoopes... Which she is entitled to have... It is very Debatable As far As I am concerned...

                        But I do agree she needs to Update that Intro... But Also, in her defense... It was from 94... and is not what she is writing today...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    These are not interpretations... This is my culture... I am an Initiated Native American Shamen... But once again... I am not the only one saying this... Go and look and read the writings of Native American Elders... I was personally Told this Very Bluntly on several occasions by Seminole, Mayan, Hopi, Lakota, and Navajo Shamens... Go to a Pow Wow and ask...

                    native americans don't call themselves shaman, its like calling myself a squaw. you should know this (wasichu?) i don't know any seminole, but i am family with wisdomkeepers from each of these other tribes. its kinda bullshit that you even talk this way about your so called culture. go to a pow wow and ask, lol. what does that mean?
                    • WOW
                      cut at the knees...

                      i too was taken by some his verbage. well, EXACTLY what you have pointed out
                      but being from the other side of the fence, i thought it best to not even entertain that area
                      whoa
                      he too probably had that one big problem; so much to say but nobody that will listen...
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        'WOW
                        cut at the knees...'

                        LOL No... For one it was just her opinions... And they are not true... In my Opinion...

                        So... Not even Close...

                        Seems I know more about the Word than her... She tried to insult me... For some odd reason.?. Which is actually a compliment to me as I am a Medicine Man...

                        Oddly though I am 1/4 French...

                        The Word Wasi'Chu originally meant Medicine Bundle... Which is what I meant by saying I am in the Original Sense... and I am the People 'Lakota'...It is a Lakota Word... So I hope it was Educational for her... The Term was then used on a lot of the French fur trappers... Which is Funny... Cause they are the only Europeans to even try to live in harmony with the Natives...
                    • Unsu...
                       
                      "go to a pow wow and ask, lol. what does that mean? "

                      It means he should at least attempt to see some of the culture he assumes to know about....

                      As to the rest... I am not sure what your trip is... I don't much care...

                      "native americans don't call themselves shaman, its like calling myself a squaw. you should know this (wasichu?)"

                      LMAO... I am Wasi'Chu is the the Original Sense... Before the "newcomers".... Back when it meant "The People" As I am Mostly Lakota... However I am not Wasi'Chu in the New Sense... I am not a Racist, I am not a 'Wanna Be', I am not In Human, I am not Greedy....

                      Once Again I say I am an initiated Shamen... So the people here on tribe know what I am talking about... Not to brag or insult...

                      I am also heavily versed in South American Plant Shamenism... So what? I was Given the Title Shaman... I did give it to myself... Thank you...

                      Why such Hatred Sister? (or brother, your profile does not say)

                      I will quote myself...

                      "I am not the only one saying this... Go and look and read the writings of Native American Elders... I was personally Told this Very Bluntly on several occasions by Seminole, Mayan, Hopi, Lakota, and Navajo Shamens..."

                      I am not the only one saying this... Go and study... Learn and Grow... Then come back... I will still be here... Verify all that you see and hear... But do not Argue Blindly... Or argue with another person's opinions... No one will listen to you if you do... Why should they?
                      • Unsu...
                         
                        Sorry... Lakota Means 'The People'... Wasi'Chu is are the New Comers.. The Greedy Racists... I am not Wasi'Chu... I am Lakota...
                        • Unsu...
                           
                          "Sorry... Lakota Means 'The People'... Wasi'Chu is are the New Comers.. The Greedy Racists... I am not Wasi'Chu... I am Lakota..."

                          Just so I am not being to Vague the first time... Cause' Upon rereading it... I was confused and I wrote it... LOL...

                          Not sure why you would called me that... your comparison of calling you a sqaw... is way off... Shamen is not a negative term... I say it with Pride... As so few have taken up the honored service to fellow humans... In a time with so many two hearts and greedy, evil men... Why attack me? For being what I am... I do not Lie... Why Should I? You might as well have called me a racist liar... Nothing could be further from the truth... But you are entitled to your opinion... As Shewed as it seems to be...
                      • "Once Again I say I am an initiated Shamen... So the people here on tribe know what I am talking about... Not to brag or insult... "

                        Really. So what. Many of us have been initiated into various spiritual disciplines and don't carry the same "truth" as you do. Initiation is just that - A begining of a journey into the mystery of tradition. Don't confuse the journey with the destination. Knowledge is not Truth.

                        I can appreciate that you feel you are on a mission to wake people up - many of us share that calling as well but there is a difference between sharing your "truth" and beating people over the heads with it. You come off as an arrogant know-it-all which I'm sure you are probably not. But this is how you are coming across.

                        "Those who know don't say and those who say don't know" - I'm not sure what the source is for this particular cliche but I do sense some truth in it.

                        "As to the rest... I am not sure what your trip is... I don't much care... "

                        And this statement only reinforces the perception of your arrogance. My trip/journey is just as valid as yours and is worthy of consideration.
                        • Unsu...
                           
                          "Really. So what. Many of us have been initiated into various spiritual disciplines and don't carry the same "truth" as you do. Initiation is just that - A begining of a journey into the mystery of tradition. Don't confuse the journey with the destination. Knowledge is not Truth. "

                          That is kinda my point... I am not Bragging.. It is a So What... I never said it was a Big deal... Or that you can not become one...

                          "I can appreciate that you feel you are on a mission to wake people up - many of us share that calling as well but there is a difference between sharing your "truth" and beating people over the heads with it. You come off as an arrogant know-it-all which I'm sure you are probably not. But this is how you are coming off"

                          And I appreciate that you feel you must inform me of this... Do you not think that you are coming off as arrogant with such commentary? The Truth is... People Ask Questions... I answer them... I have yet to be Arrogant... Though I have been Self Confident... Lots of people seem to get the two confused... As you seem to have...

                          www.merriam-webster.com/dictio...rrogant

                          Main Entry:
                          ar·ro·gant Listen to the pronunciation of arrogant
                          Pronunciation:
                          \-gənt\
                          Function:
                          adjective
                          Etymology:
                          Middle English, from Latin arrogant-, arrogans, present participle of arrogare
                          Date:
                          14th century

                          1 : exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner <an arrogant official>
                          2 : proceeding from or characterized by arrogance <an arrogant reply>
                          synonyms see proud
                          — ar·ro·gant·ly adverb


                          I have not Exaggerated or Disposed my own worth or importance... Or been overbearing... In most cases I am defending my very heritage and culture from ignorant people... (not stupid, just ignorant)

                          I had this conversation not too long ago on a different thread... Some guy asked me what my credentials were... Then when I told him... he accused me of being arrogant... LOL... Come on man.. get real... Well first he told me I padded my info...

                          www.thefreedictionary.com/self-...idence

                          self-con·fi·dence (slfknf-dns)
                          n.
                          Confidence in oneself or one's own abilities: "Without self-confidence we are as babes in the cradle" Virginia Woolf. See Synonyms at confidence.

                          Naw... I am most definitely the Later... And I think anyone that knows the difference can see this... What I really find funny is for every nay sayer I am getting I am get 10-20 people that are giving me props and complimenting me on my eloquence... Thank you to those that get it... And I wish Enlightenment to those that don't... If you take that negatively...Oh well...
                          • "That is kinda my point... I am not Bragging.. It is a So What... I never said it was a Big deal... Or that you can not become one... "

                            How do you know I'm not already one - part of the point I'm making.

                            "And I appreciate that you feel you must inform me of this... Do you not think that you are coming off as arrogant with such commentary? "

                            Perhaps, but it certainly not my intention nor do I think it is yours to come across as you have. I didn't say you were arrogant, I said you were coming across as arrogant. As far as why I feel the need to inform you, I am just acting the role of "donkey driver" from my tradition www.kabbalah.com/k/index.p...l=1&sec=12
                            • Unsu...
                               
                              "How do you know I'm not already one - part of the point I'm making. "

                              LOL, Nope... I did in fact consider that... And that is why I said that... You seem to be proving my point, friend.

                              "I didn't say you were arrogant, I said you were coming across as arrogant. As far as why I feel the need to inform you, I am just acting the role of "donkey driver" from my tradition www.kabbalah.com/k/index.p...l=1&sec=12 "

                              And I never said you were arrogant either... Fair Enough... =p I still think you are missing the whole point... Perhaps you should read more of my work, or even try to take what is being said here in context... My exchanges on this thread with Hoopes and a few others in no way reflect the majority if what has been written by me... Personally I feel I was only defending my own view points... something I should not have to do... Perhaps support them, yes.... Which I did...

                              If I don't Cite... people complain... I do Cite... and I get accused of beating people over the head with the information... Which is it... can't have it both ways... Personally I don't much care... As I keep repeating over and over... Everything I write is intended to get you out and studying the information for yourself... I don't want you to listen to me... I want to you question what I say... Just don't blindly argue like some ass... I am glad you pointed out what I already know... Wizard's First Rule... People will believe anything... Including that Self Confidence is Arrogance... Which I think is a view point problem in this country the is seeded in school...Don't Question the Teacher... Even if you are Right... I think it is a control Device and I don't Buy it... I don't Give out my opinions unless asked... or if it is pertinent to the conversation... Nor do I go to overbearing lengths with my self confidence... So I am in no way fearing actual arrogance... and am fully aware of the public's perceptions... Peace to you brother... I practice Kabbalah (Ka-Ba-La) too...
                              • "LOL, Nope... I did in fact consider that... And that is why I said that... You seem to be proving my point, friend."

                                Proving what point?

                                "I still think you are missing the whole point..."

                                What point?

                                "My exchanges on this thread with Hoopes and a few others in no way reflect the majority if what has been written by me"

                                Your exchanges with the minority who have simply asked you for clairification or substantiation of "facts" you've laid out has bordered on condescending, disrespectful and void of humility which I myself view as a necessary element of true spirituality. I've never me a spiritual man without humility.

                                "Everything I write is intended to get you out and studying the information for yourself."

                                I've personally been studying this stuff since before you born so you are preaching to the converted.

                                "I don't want you to listen to me... I want to you question what I say... Just don't blindly argue like some ass... I am glad you pointed out what I already know"

                                Sounds like you want to have debate on your terms and your terms only. I don't seek a debate nor would I like to question you so you can show off your stellar knoweledge in this area. I only took the time to offer up a critique on your motivation (self-aggrandizement) and delivery (patronizing). You are free to disagree and tell us this all about self-confidence misconstrued and that is certainly your perogitive but when you claim to be a Shaman you open yourself up to much more of a look-see then a "normal" writer might receive.
                                • Stephen, there is a simple solution here. It's called compassion! You are challenging his points of view therefore you are asking him to qualify his statements. Given the esoteric subject matter, this mostly requires Manjushri to provide titles that imply inner wisdom and esoteric knowledge and experiences. You are aware that there are no answers to the questions you ask so you are setting him up so that you instead can be correct!

                                  The only Truth he can convey are his experiences and his best interpretations. If you do not agree, offer alternative viewpoints. What true benefits are there to gain from dissecting the person rather than merely listening and deciding if the information is true for you! 'One Truth' is not a concept but a state of being and finding the exact words to convey that are impossible as you would likely agree from your references and apparent acceptance of the Kabbalah. Expression itself it limited to 'excess of paucity' so no true holistic essence is utterable. Sorry for the philosophical clarification but I know no simpler way to make that point.
                              • "If I don't Cite... people complain... I do Cite... and I get accused of beating people over the head with the information..."

                                I've had the same problem. It's just the nature of this group, I'm afraid.

                                The problems I've had with your postings are not arrogance or lack of citations, but incorrect information coming from questionable sources (such as Aluna Joy Yaxkin), internal contradictions, and lack of clarity. I've never meant to attack you personally, but to improve the quality of the information being exchanged here through the application of critical analysis and informed reasoning. I always try to do this in a lighthearted and informative way.

                                "Question authority" is a useful motto, so I've tried to apply that when I felt you were leaning too heavily on what the "authorities" have taught you. As Steven has pointed out, you'll run into serious problems if you assume that there are not people here who have been studying these issues much longer than you have and who know this material at least as well as you do. Your own insights and ideas are certainly welcome and encouraged, but don't expect to get very far by invoking the wisdom of "elders" you've encountered or your training as a shaman. There are a number of resident "elders" here in this tribe and not a little experience and expertise in things shamanic.

                                "I don't Give out my opinions unless asked... "

                                That's really not true. Practically every thread in this tribe is started by someone (including you) who wants to share opinions without having been asked.

                                "Nor do I go to overbearing lengths with my self confidence..."

                                That hasn't been my perception. I think we could all (myself included) practice more humility in the face of phenomena and knowledge that each of us understands in a flawed and imperfect way.

                                "I practice Kabbalah (Ka-Ba-La) too..."

                                I have to chuckle at your feeling compelled to mention this fact to Steven. Really, you have no idea...

                                This tribe is so funny sometimes! Thanks for the giggles. I do wish you the very best in your quest.
                                • "The problems I've had with your postings are not arrogance or lack of citations, but incorrect information coming from questionable sources (such as Aluna Joy Yaxkin)"

                                  Hey I think Aluna Joy is hot (although we need to find a way to get rid of Raphael and his essence water franchise). I actually had a very nice conversation with her a few months back - she encouraged me to put more energy behind my book.

                                  You do raise a valid point though Hoopes in using channeled information as fact support. I have used channeled info in my book but I've been very careful to qualify it as up for hard core discernment and only used to fill in gaps where there are no other sources to help illuminate the issue under consideration. And even then one has to really question anything that emerges indirectly (not from within).

                                  Anyway, appreciate the "wisdom of elder" points and really I never thought I would look for acknowledgement in this area but once you break the fifty threshold, there is much less tolerance for the "not invented here" syndrome. There is nothing new under the sun.
                                • Unsu...
                                   
                                  I think we could all (myself included) practice more humility in the face of phenomena and knowledge that each of us understands in a flawed and imperfect way.

                                  ________________

                                  i agree hoopes.

                                  humility.

                                  i feel we could all use that.

                                  sometimes we come off being the very thing we are opposed to.

                                  i'm not referring to the parties involved in here btw.

                                  we're not as open minded as we'd like to think we are.

                                  just my thoughts.
                        • Unsu...
                           
                          "And this statement only reinforces the perception of your arrogance. My trip/journey is just as valid as yours and is worthy of consideration."

                          LOL NO... Why should I care what you or anyone else thinks about me...

                          It proves that I don't want to Change your Opinion... LMFAO...

                          But this proves my point of you not getting it... Not at all...

                          I never said your trip is not valid... I said I don't Care for it... I still don't... You are being negative... IMO...

                          Remember you Came to MY thread... And Commented on my opinions...

                          You are entitled to your opinion... just as I am entitled to not care about... I never asked you for your opinion... Nor did I force you to come here and Read mine...

                          Om A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhih Dhih Dhih
    • Unsu...
       
      That was fun... Just took a trip down Memory Lane... Once Again.. Thanks for Re posting... I do encourage everyone to go check it out... Also keep in mind the original question... I still seem to be the only one that answered it...
      • Manjushri, tell us more about the Galactic Federation and the Earth's role in this..
        • Unsu...
           
          "Manjushri, tell us more about the Galactic Federation and the Earth's role in this.."

          Sure whatcha want to know?
          • Imagine that I am skeptical though interested. Not so hard right?

            Then imagine a person telling a story about why they only have one leg and being asked, "How did that happen?"

            Next imagine that the one legged man was lacing up his roller blade and many were staring and wondering why he chose that venue.

            What is only slightly interesting. How and why enflame the loins and suddenly the facts make sense!

            Get it?
            • Juicy, juicy,...such a read for a Sunday afternoon....

              remember, this is the Day of Love Meditation, someone named rachel posted about not long ago, so i am taking all that into account, as i come here to one of my favorite tribes to check in on the latest....it is about Self Love today, so being careful to not step on my own toes....a good reminder just about everyday....

              just wanted to add, Manjushri.....i would be curious to hear more about your path, and it doesn't strike me as arrogant, but informative.....just my 2 cents (and yes, that lady from Sedona does sound a little cheesy, unfortunately...)
              • Unsu...
                 
                LOL... Thanks.

                "just wanted to add, Manjushri.....i would be curious to hear more about your path"

                Well first and foremost I am an Universalist, I Celebrate the similarities instead of argue the differences... Sophia Et Primordialis... I have studied many paths... However, I follow my own path... I think we all do this... Even if we do not realize it... I advocate truth from within... Some would say I walk the Razor's Edge... The Narrow Path between good and evil, or Light and Dark... I am a Neutral Jedi with a Purple Light Saber... I am a Tibetan Buddhist, MahaYana and VajraYana. I also have studied the Shamanic Bon Tradition... As well as many other Shamanic Traditions around the world... I think we are all Awakening Buddhas... I think we are all Buddha Nature... I think we are all One... ONE LOVE!!! I have taken the Bodhisattva Vow. I love you all.

                Peace
                Om Bhaisajye Bhaisajye Maha Bhaisajye, Rajasamudgate Svaha
                • "I Celebrate the similarities instead of argue the differences...I have studied many paths... However, I follow my own path... I think we all do this... Even if we do not realize it... I advocate truth from within..."

                  This has been my preferred way as well for most of my adult life. The choice to adopt another's opinion is itself an internalizing gesture. There are very few truly original minds amongst humans.

                  The complex thread is evidence that many still seek 'one right answer. This is incorrect and impossible. The ego wants to be in sole possession of the best answer. It's not going to happen. Every human is on a different level and path. The One is all of us! Get it?

                  Calling someone arrogant is laughable because it takes arrogance to be offended by self confidence.

                  Admittedly, what gets under my skin is a person whose view is so rigid that it becomes intentionally antagonistic simply to uphold the principle of intellectually rigorous consistency with interest only in facts though not truth. Facts can clearly be wrong.

                  I do not think that Manjushri is a member of the Galactic Federation and I do no think he is correct about Reptilian races but I am as well excited about the possibility that he might be correct so I listen. Does this in-between choice cause me to be doubtful, wishy-washy..or even a flip-flopper? LOL I do not think he is arrogant but I do think he is being assaulted for being smart and therefore possessing an apparently greater probability of being correct as well for proposing a grand perspective (not just a detail) that several egos do not share.

                  I am seeking to locate and hold the field of the apparent possibilities of 2012 and am noting that mostly the controversial and conspiratorial topics get all the attention. Arguing about 2012 is both illogical and insensitive!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    "Calling someone arrogant is laughable because it takes arrogance to be offended by self confidence. "

                    Who said I was offended? I also said that he was coming off as arrogant by saying he's a shaman when he clearly has not shown the maturity and humility of one.

                    "Arguing about 2012 is both illogical and insensitive!"

                    Contrasting various views and debating their merit is neither illogical nor insensitive. Futurists do it all the time. Taking it all personally - now that's another thing.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     
                    "Calling someone arrogant is laughable because it takes arrogance to be offended by self confidence. "

                    I have noticed this many times myself. I have never had any problems with Humble and/or Open Minded People... Just arrogant ones, and/or closed minded ones...

                    Like I said earlier though, I get so much more positive feed back vs. negative... Thank you for yours J'uha.
            • Unsu...
               
              BTW... I am still working on a response to your question about the Earth's Role with the GF, J'uha. I just have been Extremely Busy for the last few days... I did what to say that Earth has always been a GF planet... And that the Land Based Guardians or Earth... Earth Humans... Were Specifically and Originally, Seeded here for Stewardship/Guardianship of this Beautiful World... Things later went horribly wrong... there were mutinies...(see we are kinda a back water planet... as some of you know... and there was the Nasty war going on with the Draconians and a Group from Orion and of course the slave race of 'greys'... This is what kept the GF from helping sooner(There are Other planets in similar situations, we are not the only ones)) This is when the Draconians took power and started to try to make Humans Slaves... There was another Rebellion... Lemuria became Independent from Atlantis... Dumbed Down Earth Humans were made... and made into Slaves... More Rebellions... Draconians go underground... Galactic Humans that are left are used to control Earth Humans as God-Kings... Well... NM... Guess that Sums it up... I also have a bit on that in my Dimensions Blog on my profile... So... it has been a continued role... GF has had... But they have not really been here in any major way, at least not too much until very recently.... like about 1978....
  • sometimes,
    we go back
    in tribe, cuz i get bored with what present here
    others may go back...just to see
    the past, as if yesterday
    but today, yesterday is too far away

    mango's opening thread means more to me now, than it did then
    so i might be a tad bit slow
    but i will never stop
    until the end
    which is sooner than close

    does everybody know why they are here?
    • Unsu...
       
      "mango's opening thread means more to me now, than it did then "

      Thank you, That was my Intent.

      I Think I will Re-post it under a new Thread... and maybe add a bit...
      • Unsu...
         
        What a Long Strange Trip this has been. Thank you all for your participation in this. I apologize to any I did not answer in this thread. It was fun. On the Shaman thing. I clearly stated how I feel about that word in the Shamanism Tribe. I have been called it by others. (Clarifying.) I call myself Wichasha Wakhan and Wichasha Phejuta. Those are Lakota Terms... Shaman being a Siberian Term. Nowadaze with all the Plastic Shaman... I wear the term less proudly. Though, I still do not mind being called that. And the Actual MEANING I am proud to represent. I do, in fact., bring back information from the "Other-side" to present to y'all.

        Looking at it all now... Only thing I would change is the Typos. The rest was SPOT ON.

        Hanhepi Washte.
        Toksha!
  • Unsu...
     
    Siriusly... Wake Up!. No, not you, that other guy... And YES YOU! Man, were is that post that I did when I was asked about what I thought would happen... All I remember is, Everything I had said would come to pass has. Increased Volcanic Activity, Earthquakes, "Record Weather" and Strange Weather Patterns, and the increase in solar activity. I predicted more War, Famine, and Strife. Not really trying to "Toot my own Horn", I am just saying it is time to reconsider what has been said. And take it seriously instead of use straw-man arguments and diversion tactics. Then End of the WORLD AGE is here. Earth Changes are upon you... Watcha gonna do?
    • Unsu...
       
      Well, it might be too old a post. LOL! Here is one from just two years ago, and it will not let me reply to it to get it back up there....
      "Re: Watching the Sun - 2012
      Manjushri Bodhisattva Thu, April 8, 2010 - 8:22 AM by offlineManjush...

      Yes, and as I have seen in other threads the talks of Earthquakes. Volcanic Activity and Earthquakes (and thus Tsunamis) will continue to increase. This as I have said before has to do with the Tectonic Plate activity that is being accelerated. And when the Geomagnetic Field Reverses, which it will, there will be even more cosmic radiation increases the whole process even more and exciting the magma even more.

      Which Brings me to the "2012" Movie. Was kinda funny the parallels in my life and the story I saw. The main character was a Writer, Like me... And had a Daughter of the same name... Anyway. I thought it was about what I expected. A bunch of Special Effects and Drama. I bring this up because it touches so many issues we all have discussed here. One of the things is that the Mayans, Which BTW are not "Gone", never had any end of the "World" (as in the Earth) predictions. That all had to do with mostly White people using the Calenders for there own ends. This does not mean that they did not Predict some of the Cosmic Events that occur. They saw this time as the End of a World Age. Similar to the Yugas or Ages of the Vedas. And as the math turns out, ties in directly to the Precession of the Equinox. 5 B'ak'tun = 25,625... This is the 5th B'ak'tun. Or 5th World Age. As also talked about by other indigenous peoples of the world including the Hopi, and the Council of 13 Indigenous Grandmothers.

      This is not a time to Fear. But a Time to Come together in Hope and Brother/Sister-Hood. We are all one. Mitakuya Oyas'in
      We are Co-Creators in this Creation. We can change the world in a Night if we all tried. So think Positive and Create a World You Want To Live In. Remember the Cycles of Life. And soon the only Way Will Be UP!

      Peace.

      Om A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhih
      Om Bhaisajye Bhaisajye Maha Bhaisajye Rajasamudgate Shvaha "

      2012.tribe.net/m/thread/3...06fb6dd3c06