Waken Sleeping Child, Shake Dreams From Your Hair Little One.

topic posted Fri, April 25, 2008 - 10:56 AM by  Manjushri
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There has been an awakening happening for some time now, yet there is still much mis-information and lack of true understanding. I hope to be able to provide some tools and perhaps some answers.

First and foremost:

DON'T PANIC...

We are currently in the Dark Ages.... The Kali Yuga... Dec 21, 2012 marks the end of the Baktun Long Count... This will be the Begining of the Satya Yuga or the Golden Age... Also it marks the end of a 25,625 year cycle known as 'the precession of the equinox'. It is the end of the Age of Pieces and the Beginning of the Age of Aquarius... If that wasn't enough it also marks the day when the winter solstice sun passes through the Galactic Center as it travels the spirit road through the heavenly gate unlocking the stargate (Dimensional Gate) at two doorways... (as well the 'quarantine' Force Field 3rd-7th density)

Reality IS what you make...

Now is a time to get together and share information and love...

We are making a future right here and now...

Many psychics have claimed to not be able to see past the end of the Baktun Long Count... Doomsayers would have you believe it is because the world will end... Some like Terrence McKenna believed time would end on that date.... Neither are even close... Time is a Fractal... Remember that... not Linear.... But going in all directions, at once even.... Remember we live in an infinite universe...

I have had no such problems, but to quell their alarm...

We are currently 4th Density (Dimensional), not 3rd as many may think... That shift happened artificially in 1978 and naturally in 1998...

12.21.2012 will be a marker on our way to 5th Density.

The reason for the psychic block is simple...

You can not see into the next higher vibration... This is a simple rule, even in classical physics...

The Planet itself as a spiritual entity will be moving into 5th Density as well as 22 other star systems with their own planets that are in our galaxy. Part of the agenda of the ones that control us is to make us manifest our own demise. If you devote your time to thinking negative things, then you are manifesting exactly what you don't what to happen into existence. What we must now all do is think and live with universal love for all beings, even the draconians, greys and reptilians... Feel free to use my links in my profile to do your own research.
posted by:
Manjushri
Oregon
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  • Manjushri i have seen before your a man of knowledge on these subjects.

    I have a couple of questions for you.

    First could you expand a little on this -

    We are currently 4th Density (Dimensional), not 3rd as many may think... That shift happened artificially in 1978 and naturally in 1998...

    especialy what you mean by what happened in 1978 and 1998 ?

    Another thing is you say 2012 is the start of the age of auqurius. However this is hotly disputed. -

    Heindel-Rosicrucian based interpretation: begins in ca. AD 2654[19] (the Orb of influence started in ca. 1934/1930s).
    Elsa M. Glover interpretation:[20] ca. AD 2638.
    Neil Mann interpretation: begins AD 2150.
    Dane Rudhyar was one of the most important astrologers of the 20th century. His many influential books helped reconcile astrology with modern psychology and free it from the deterministic trappings of the past. According to his interpretation, the Age of Aquarius will begin in AD 2062.
    Nicholas Campion in "The Book of World Horoscopes" indicates that he has collected over 90 dates provided by researchers for the start of the Age of Aquarius and these dates have a range of over 2,000 years commencing in the 15th century AD[21]. The range of dates for the possible start of the Aquarian age range from 1447 to 3621.

    Not trying to be pedantic as i am sure we are starting to feel the start of the shift into the new age of aquarius, but wondered what you made of above ?

    When i posted up a question on 2012 in two of the main astrology forums on tribe, non of the astrologers were aware of the significance of the date, although some of them had heard about the Mayan end of time etc.

    However i do think thats most likely because the changes you list thats going to happen then are out of the normal realm of our planets, or normal astrology and are more galaxtic, so possibly much more profund. I wounder if you have come across any articles on this by "western" astrologers as opposed to Mayan schooolers/mystics ?

    What is happening in conventional astrology aparantly starting around 2012 is a square between Uranus and Pluto that has seven peaks aparantly, i think it lasts around 4 or 5 years, and this could well mean change, and also tense times. The first peak ive just looked up and is a day or two after summer solstice, June 2012.

    Im going to surf around some of the links you list on your site anyway, thanks.

    • Well I have talked a lot about both questions... To the first one. I will explain a little bit more by what I mean... Mostly useing a Repost from 1 of my blogs...

      Dimensions are separated by vibration, much like radio frequencies, these different vibrations can exist in the same space without touching or interfering with one and another. A higher Vibration can perceive a lower one, but a lower Vibration cannot perceive a higher one. Classical Physics teaches the story of The Dot, The Line, and The Cube. Each one only able to perceive the one that came before it... so the Dot is unaware of the Line, The Line is unaware of the Cube, but the Cube is aware of them all. This represents the first 3 dimensions, a 4th would be time, and many argue we have been 4th Dimensional beings since the moment we began to measure time... But that is Classical Physics... Quantum Physics teaches us of the zero point field or quantum vacuum... that all matter is energy condensed to a slower vibration, that atoms are not solid and not only is reality an illusion of photon energy but it is subject to the will of consciousness.
      Now, there are in fact an Infinite number of dimensions. Just like a single NOTE of sound has 12 octaves and each octave has 12 semitones and an infinite number of harmonics in between... The Universe has 12 main octaves of vibration creating the 12 Dimensions of Physical Matter, each of these 12 Dimensions have 12 levels in between, Just like the Mayan Tzol'Kin the 13th level is the next step up... or next Dimension...

      Another misconception is that we live in the 3rd Dimension... This is only partly true, you actually live in multiple dimensions at once. Normally in a cord of harmonics... For example Most earth humans currently Live in their 3rd and 4th Density bodies, while they are either making or already have a 5th Density body. Think of a Super-Computer using wireless connections to control several other computers at once... All one needs to do is shift their consciousness from one level to another. Meditation and an understanding of the Chakra System will help you move your consciousness up... Using Universal Love and Compassion Through True Understanding you can raise your vibration to the highest levels of the multiverse...

      When some earth humans die, they go to the 7th Dimension... others may go to the 9th Dimension from were they are projecting themselves originally.

      From my understanding there is now consciousness even in the 2nd Dimension thanks to computers, AI, and the universes they can create.

      There is more in the blog... I would also like to add, the 5th Dimension is one of Light...

      in 1978 many things happened.... Most, not all, of the beings living here from Pleiades went home and into higher vibrational densities... Beings from the Andromeda Galaxy arrived and took up where the Pleiadeans left off, with helping the earth humans...
      The Sun changed it's fusion from combining 1 hydrogen and 1 helium to make carbon... to combining 1 carbon and 1 hydrogen to make nitrogen... We were all saved with an adjustment to the Dimensional Force Field that surrounds the planet... This also caused us to become 4th density... In 1998 Humanity achieved a high enough vibration to be fully 4th dimensional beings consciously and physically... The was a natural occurrence and a great step forward... Think of the Dimensional Consciousness like the Chakra System... 4th Density is often called Christ or Krishna Consciousness...

      I will see if I find what I wrote already in answer to your second question...
      • Ah found it.... It was actually an answer to a different question.... but I think it will help...

        That simple question has a very complicated answer. Both dates are related to the precession of the equinoxes. 12.21.2012 is the end of the Baktun Long Count. A period of 13 Baktuns or 5,125.36 years is indicated on creation monuments as one 'World Age', 5 such 'World Ages' or about 25,627 years is equal to one full precession. It is not the end of the Mayan Calendar, but a specific marker. On that day the Winter Solstice Sun will pass through the area of the Galactic Center, an event that only happens once every 25,627. The Mayans were incredibly accurate...

        The main problem being the actual beginning of the Age of Aquarius. First the stars are not in the same place they were 26,000 ago, and the Zodiac was very different as well. The modern Zodiac is based on 12 signs, but there is a 13th sign known in ancient times, Ophiuchus or the Serpent Bearer. IF you use 26,000 years for 1 precession and divide that by 12 for the number of the Zodiacal signs you will get 2166.6, using 25,800 you will get 2150. The Birth of Jesus is the start of the western Gregorian Calendar. Jesus was the Avatar for the Sign of Pisces, so starting at the year 0 AD and then adding the time of one Age you will get the year the Age of Aquarius will begin...

        As you see, 2150 is a good guess... IF you use only 12 signs... IF you use 13 signs you will get 26000/13=2000, 25800/13=1984, 25750/13=1980. So yes they are related... One is highly accurate, has undergone no major changes, and has a reset to realign with the stars every 52 years... That would be the Living Mayan True Count Calendar... The other is highly inaccurate, based on calendars no longer in use, has undergone major changes many times, and never resets to keep up with the movement of the stars... So one can see why there might be some confusion... =P

        Some thing to note, 13 is a sacred number to the Maya, it was one of Ascension and Achieving high levels of vibration, the next step... or ring of the infinite spiral.
        • If you use the 'Mayan' number for the number of years in a precession... 25,627 and divide it by 13 you get 1971...
          Another thing to remember is that each Age has a Dawn and a Dusk...
          • >>>in 1978 many things happened.... Most, not all, of the beings living here from Pleiades went home and into higher vibrational densities<<<

            oh, so that's why fashion took such a turn for the worse in the 80's~!! :-P
            • lol, could be.
              • <<in 1978 many things happened.... Most, not all, of the beings living here from Pleiades went home and into higher vibrational densities>>

                Manjushri, can i ask where you source this knowledge from ? I have an open mind to this stuff, not saying i bleive it, not saying i dont, I would like to read more.

                Is there a good source on this kind of stuff ? What do you think of Icke ? I just cant make my mind up about him and his ideas.

                • Well, I am currently writing several books, some of which has to do with the alternative history of our species and planet. So many sources... I am a Starseed and Contactee. But my books are not out yet, so other than checking my profile... which you could literally spend days reading and watching all the clips and links... I will list a few here...

                  First David Icke, I do in fact list him as a source... He has be getting better and better, as his own understanding of the information strengthens... He recently (meaning the last decade) came to america and studied with many masters here and researchers... From this his understanding has grown greatly and you now hear him talk about things you only heard from other researchers... Over all Great stuff... He is one of the top in the world and for sure one of the top in Europe. I have links to his website, were he details tons of info...

                  Jim Mars - Researcher/Writer
                  Great Researcher, everything from archeology to quantum physics.

                  Alex Collier - Contactee- great vid from 1994 in my profile... note what he was saying prior to 911.

                  Micheal Tsarion - Researcher
                  Tsarion is pretty new to the scene but has quickly shown himself to be one of the top people in the field. Extremely knowledgeable particularly in the areas of Atlantis/Lemuria and Astro-Theology/Sidereal Mythology.
                  Tsarion's links are in my profile, He has a DVD video Series 'Origins and Oracles' and a book "Alantis: Alien Visitation, Genetic Manipulation'

                  Jordon Maxwell - Researcher/Writer
                  One of the older researchers with numerous books under his belt... His understanding of Law/Politics/Governments tied to his Occult and Secret Society Knowledge is what makes him stand out.

                  John Major Jenkins - an independent researcher who has devoted himself to reconstructing ancient Mayan cosmology and philosophy. Since 1986, John has traveled to Mexico and Central America seven times. In 1990 he helped build a school in San Pedro, near Lake Atitlan in Guatemala. In 1994 he delivered relief supplies to a Quiché Maya community in the Western highlands of Guatemala. Since beginning his odyssey of research and discovery with the Maya, John has authored dozens of articles and many books, including:

                  Journey to the Mayan Underworld (Four Ahau Press, Boulder, CO: 1989)
                  Mirror in the Sky (Four Ahau Press, 1991)
                  Tzolkin: Visionary Perspectives and Calendar Studies (Borderland Sciences Research Foundation, Garberville, CA: 1992/1994)
                  Mayan Sacred Science (Four Ahau Press, Boulder, CO: 1994)
                  Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 (Bear & Company, Santa Fe, NM: 1998)

                  Amit Goswami - Quantum Physicist
                  Self Aware Universe: How Consciousness Create the Material World
                  Quantum Mechanics
                  Physics of the Sould: The Quantum Book of Living, Dyeing, Reincarnation, and Immortality.
                  Quantum Creativity
                  and more...
                  He is in the Movie 'What the Bleep Do We know?"
                  He was my Prof. @ the U of O here in Eugene... Great Man

                  John Lear - Test Pilot, Speed Record Holder, Researcher/Writer

                  The Disclosure Project... head by Dr. Steven Greer

                  Eric Von Daniken - Archeologist/Researcher/Writer

                  Zacharia Sitchin - Researcher/Writer
                  Earth Chronicle Series...

                  I guess that is a good start... And there is more in my profile of course...
    • Thank you...
      • The best thing about astrology is that you do not have to quote other people at all. Dane was no astrologer, which is visible from his natal chart. He died never knowing the true position of his natal sun. He never knew his ascendant either.
        You do not have to imitate Kepler, Newton, Cassini, Hipparchus, Ptolemy or Galileo. What did they know? Their errors were still greater than those of the past. And today you are facing TWO SIGNS of error to start with. You are born into a world with false astrology. Even Derek Appleby can not help much. lulu.com/astrology

        P.S. perhaps Dane WROTE about astrology, but he never knew what happens in the sky, so he wrote amusing stuff, that's all. Keanu Reeves has the child within with Mercury in Sextans, that is the real sky Dane never knew. But he did not have to, since apart from people like Nostradamus, most writers never had astrological aspects. It is one in a million, so how could they have it? You can not walk to the store, buy any program, sit back and be an astrologer. That is absurd.
        • I like Dane Rudhyar. I think he was a great astrologer. Astrologers do not all use the same system, but that does not mean that only one system works!!! Astrology is illogical from the getgo, and i have no idea why any of it works, but i am forced to admit that it does because it does, and that in itself fascinates me.

          I don't think much of your sources, Manjushri, if you are relying on the likes of Tsarion, Icke, and Collier. What a huge pile of infoshit those fear mongers have spread.
        • So true... This is taken from www.space.com/scienceastr..._000616.html


          Your Real Astrological Sign

          It's well known that President Ronald Reagan used a color-coded calendar to keep track of his astrological predictions. (Is this a good day for nuclear annihilation?) Scary stuff, especially considering that these predictions were based on the wrong sign! In fact, except for some slight overlap, almost no one's zodiacal sign is related to the actual position of the sun.

          Modern astrologers -- a term that may constitute an oxymoron -- classify an Aries as someone born between March 21 and April 19. You may see some significance in the first date. It marks the vernal equinox, the beginning of spring. Another, older name for the vernal equinox is the "first point of Aries." This spot in the sky is marked by a great "X" where the celestial equator (the imaginary projection of Earth's equator into space) crosses the ecliptic (the annual path of the sun). Spring in the Northern Hemisphere occurs when the sun moves north of the celestial equator after spending the winter months south of it.

          Some 2,600 years ago, this important point in the sky was indeed in the constellation Aries. Today, however, it has shifted to the west and now resides in Pisces. The mechanism responsible for this shift is the slight wobble in Earth's axis due to the gravitational tugs of the moon and sun.

          Over a period of 25,700 years, the wobble causes the vernal equinox to drift through the entire zodiac. After Pisces, the vernal equinox's next home constellation, around 2614 AD, is Aquarius. That's when the real "Age of Aquarius" begins.

          Traditional or "tropical" astrologers ignore this shift. They argue that where the vernal equinox is today is not as important as where it was. They claim that the areas of sky where the sun was over two thousand years ago still possess the same power and virtues. Thus Leo continues to represent strength, Aries determination, and so on.

          Another group, the sidereal astrologers, does take the shift into account, but they are largely considered mavericks by traditionalists.

          In the interest of promoting proper prognostication, I've used the Starry Night software to update the periods when the sun truly occupies each member of the zodiac (Ophiuchus included). Armed with this knowledge, you can now stop living the wrong future.

          Aries 4/19 to 5/13

          Taurus 5/14 to 6/20

          Gemini 6/21 to 7/20

          Cancer 7/21 to 8/10

          Leo 8/11 to 9/15

          Virgo 9/16 to 10/30

          Libra 10/31 to 11/22

          Scorpio 11/23 to 11/29

          Ophiuchus 11/30 to 12/17

          Sagittarius 12/18 to 1/19

          Capricorn 1/20 to 2/15

          Aquarius 2/16 to 3/11

          Pisces 3/12 to 4/18


          I happen to be Ophiuchus... If you could not guess...
          • So was Mr. Mojo Rising.... James (Jim) Douglas Morrison... Serpent Handler...Ophiuchus.
            • Precession dictates all change according to the precessed ascendant set. The REAL POSITIONS OF THE PLANETS are nowadays available, so pseudo-astrologers are exposed to criticism. It is a shame whet they have done to the planet in the 5000 years of darkness. No wonder LORD GOD forbade Chaldean astrology as non-precessed. The ascendant is a matter of precession, there are 16 ascendants at the present epoch. Nowadays you cant have Aries or Lepus ascending but at the time of King Arthur of Pharaoh Nechepso you could. There are only 16 ascendants today. A world about the zodiac, academic zodiac. Anyone can check for e.g. Moon in Auriga or Jupiter in Ophiuchus on Google Sky. There are also online planetariums that will help you determine the REAL ZODIACAL position of the planet in question. There are 22 zodiacal positions in all. The ascendant can also be determined with precision even by an amateur, especially by an amateur, e.g. Moon ascending in Cetus, Uranus ascending in Cetus or Eros Pluto conjunct, ascending in Cetus. Working with the REAL SKY means hovering aloof from superstition. lulu.com/astrology www.google.com/sky/ This everyone can check for precessed ascendant and local zodiac.
              • On November 23rd the sun is still in Libra, Sai Baba's birthday. Check the ephemeris on tribe.net
                astronuts.tribe.net/thread/f...564a50538
                • you know ive read the sideral - tropical thing before. I can see that the argument makes sense, yet i have followed my own chart and its transits and the thing is it just seems to work.

                  When pluto conjunct my sun cap 0 22, it was so intense to the day i cant disptute it, Alos 3 uranus opposite uranus hits i have in the last 18 months, ando ther transits ive felt them to the day.

                  I got seprated from my family for 7 months, and on the day i was flying over to hong kong to be ru-united, just before i was leaving fo the airport, someone told me it was a full moon that night, i looked up the moon, and low and behold, exact to the degree of my natal moon.

                  Now that must only occur around once every 30 years, whats the chances of that ?

                  No im convinced there is a lot in the traditional astrology, not sure how it works, but it just does.

                  Do you guys know what Dan Rudhyar and Liz Green have said about this ? I rate both of them very highly.
                • you know ive read the sideral - tropical thing before. I can see that the argument makes sense, yet i have followed my own chart and its transits and the thing is it just seems to work.

                  When pluto conjunct my sun cap 0 22, it was so intense to the day i cant disptute it, Alos 3 uranus opposite uranus hits i have in the last 18 months, ando ther transits ive felt them to the day.

                  I got seprated from my family for 7 months, and on the day i was flying over to hong kong to be ru-united, just before i was leaving fo the airport, someone told me it was a full moon that night, i looked up the moon, and low and behold, exact to the degree of my natal moon.

                  Now that must only occur around once every 30 years, whats the chances of that ?

                  No im convinced there is a lot in the traditional astrology, not sure how it works, but it just does.

                  Do you guys know what Dan Rudhyar and Liz Green have said about this ? I rate both of them very highly.
          • The removal of Orhpiucus, 45 books in the Bible (including the extremely important Gospel according to Mary Magdalene), as well the Solfeggio, the ancient calendars, the reloation of the Alexandrian library to the Vatican (speculative though likely) as well Sacred Geometry and Phiometry, these are all part of the Vatican's suppression of spiritual power available to the masses. The picture was folded in half and the other half, diagrammatically speaking, was known to small secret groups that began to unravel after Akhenaten's short Dynasty.

            These people have manifested differently during the past 3.5 millennia and are mostly diluted at this time. The power is returning to the entire planet, naturally, especially those who are unfettered by strong intellectual biases, generally known as the meek and generally understood as those who will inherit the Earth.

            There are a select few who are remembering, mostly by surrendering, and I believe you when you say and imply that you are having this experience. We and you are trained though with a Classical mind. It's my opinion that the real challenge is to invoke our presence without the traditional way of rationalizing and thinking. In other words, think with the heart and to see with the pineal; an inter-dimensional portal.

            When a person speaks the Truth, nobody asks for references. Ever notice that?
  • ~~ We are currently ~~

    • don't worry, i'll wait.
      • i pulled into nazeruth
        was feeling about half past dead
        i just need some place where i can
        lay my head
        hey mister...
        can you tell me?
        where a man might find a bed
        he just grinned and shook my hand
        no, was all he said

        bullets?

        the weight, continues...
        • you have my attention...where is randy...i haven't stopped by his house...
          • sorry to bug you
            and i cannot even find the thread i was talking about
            for some odd reason i think everybody reads all posts
            duh
            why am i even asking you.......................

            what is your take on 9-11?

            and then there is that chon character
            he found a video about randy weaver
            after i brought the issue to lite
            someday i 'll find it
            i was taken, as i said before, by the title of your thread
            you have shown your range of intelligence
            when i see this thread it is hard to not think of r.w.
            he was an ex green beret who lived in the mountains with his family
            wife
            and children
            let me not bore you
            they, the government,
            shot his wife in the face
            and his young son in the back
            stupid subject for saturday,
            if i was not so lazy i would erase this entire post andgo
            back to bed
            but it is saturday morning, and just like a kid
            hope to get some play time in
            damn, its great to be ALIVE
            at least
            for
            the
            time
            being

            2012?
            i will try not to bother you with frivualous sp? again, but do not bank on it
            what is your take on the federal reserve system...
            • Ah know...I have seen nothing on Randy... I will check that out...

              9/11...

              Well I just posted Loose Change Final Cut on my profile... (I had 2nd ED up) I think that about cover how I feel about it...
              As too the Why? There is Fog of War, Why We Fight, and Money Masters: International Bankers...(as to the Reserver System...)...
              I also have the full Eisenhower Farewell Speech... OH and watch the History Channel special on Secret Societies I got up... It makes me Laugh.... Daniel Pipes...LMAO... get got a promotion in the CFR after that interview...

              2012... Indeed... A focal point for this forum...
              I have blogged and posted a bit on this... I think the date is not as important as how you live your life on your path to this date. The world does not end... But the World Age does... The date is just a marker... The cosmic event and it's timings are simply amazing... Part of a natural bio-rhythm of the planet... Designed to evolve the symbiotes and kill off the parasites...

              The international Banks control the wealth of the world... Including ours... They are in turn controlled by the Royal Bloodlines... Dating back to the time of Summer... Age old...
              • The idea that there are royal bloodlines that have controlled events and are part reptilian flies in the face of the entire fields of history and biology. I'm having a lot of trouble wrapping my mind around the evident fact that some people actually believe this.
                • The Bloodlines actually is supported by modern Genealogy and genetic studies.. There are numerous books on the subject including ones about American Politics... George Bush for example is directly related to Windsor British Royal Family...

                  solarstation.think-aboutit.com/co...htm
                  www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mero...2.htm

                  Hilary Clinton is Bloodlines... and So is Barak Obama... Obama is one Bush's more distant Cousins...

                  As far as the reptilian thing goes... that is a huge mis-understanding... most have know clue what David Icke, Tsarion, Credo Mutwa or Hopi Native/Navajo Natives, Mayans, Buddhists....ect..ect. are talking about...
                  Think about the Dimensions... and how you can not perceive the next higher one with out special help...
                  These Bloodlines are Human... just as human as you or me.... LOL
                  Your DNA are scalar wave antenna... The Bloodlines DNA has a slight difference that allows these beings on high planes to control the HUMAN BODIES of these people... Now when people see shapeshifting... Such as with Native American Shamen.... You are actually seeing the energy bodies of the higher dimensional beings... Not there 3rd or 4th density bodies...which are in fact human...
                  That is also how shamens shapeshift... We live in the higher realms... Normally picking an animal that we know intimately and have spent a large amount of time with... Understanding the Quantum/Holographic Nature of Reality... Of Maya...

                  Anyway... Point is it is actually well documented... and having studied both history and biology I can say confidently that modern research only confirms the Bloodlines existence... If you would like a list of research material I can offer some... But It is all over the internet these days....
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Well documented that people are kin to each other to a remarkable degree, but not well documented that there is even the smallest shred of truth to the reptilian bloodline thing.

                    As for Bush and Obama being cousins, i found this:

                    "George W. Bush and Obama, meanwhile, are 10th cousins once removed - linked through a 17th century Massachusetts couple, Samuel Hinckley and Sarah Soole, according to the Sun-Times."

                    Do you imagine YOU are somehow more distant kin to these same people, or that you are no kin at all. It is estimated that the most recent common ancestor for all europeans lived only 1000 years ago, and we went back over 350 years for the obama bush connection. Go back 350 years, or even close, and you have a LOT of cousins.

                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin
                    • Indeed...

                      But... that is not the point... The Bush - Obama thing is stretching it... And I personally think it is not important...

                      But as far as every one being tied to these Bloodlines... That simply isn't true... Other than the fact some scientists believe we have found a genetic Eve... Or if you go back far enough we are all from Africa...

                      I am talking about Bush having direct ties to Royal Bloodlines... The common interbreeding of these bloodlines... Both are scientifically proven...

                      Back to the reptilian thing...

                      We do all in fact have reptilian DNA... That is a proven fact... You have DNA from all the animals your cells evolved from... Your vertebra use the same genetic code as the spiral on a snail shell or segments on a worm... Your Hair and Nails are the same material as that shell, and what makes up the most of the bulk in trees... See my point? Genetics are more universal than you may think... And as has been recently posted in tribe... maybe geneticists believe we have Alien DNA... We have entire alternate systems with in our DNA, locked in the so-called junk DNA...

                      Of Course that is not what you want to know... Your more talking about the Alien factor... Once again... That whole thing is a huge mis-understanding...

                      Reptilian Aliens are a hybrid Race of Draconian and Earth REPTILES.... NOT HUMANS... Period (though I admit THEY may have some HUMAN DNA) ...LOL... NOT to be confused with Galactic Reptilians that come form other stars altogether... They however are not the ones everyone is talking about...

                      The so called 'Reptilian Humans' are a Draconian/HUMAN Hybrid... Period...

                      They should be called Draconian Hybrids... See what I mean about a huge mis-understanding...

                      Back to the DNA scalar wave antenna...

                      These Beings are Human...
                      David Icke agrees with me here... so does Tsarion...
                      The people on YouTube are just stupid... with their 'snakeskin' Photoshop morphs... kinda pisses me off....
                      Don't know why people... Even Educated people... Still believe that kind of rubbish...

                      So one last time... Reptilians are
                      1... Not really Aliens.. They were Developed on Earth By Draconians...
                      2... Not Humans.... Nor are they the Above World Figures like Bush... Reptilians are the Chitahuri spoken of by the Zu Lu...Naga spoken of in the Vedas...
                      3... Above ground figures like Bush are in fact Human... Though they only display their more cold blooded emotions... They are not any more reptilian than anyone else... However they are more Draconian... and have unlocked DNA that allows them to be remote controlled from higher dimensions...

                      I hope that helps...
                      • Maybe It is because I am a Pseudo-Schizophrenic Native American... (see my comments on the Kundalini/Schizophrenia connection)... I grew up with these stories...

                        Taken from www.reptilianagenda.com/resear...a.shtml

                        Ancient references to reptiles and serpents

                        Several ancient peoples all over the world have described reptilian beings. There are historical accounts about reptiloids devouring human children, and also tales of Serpents of Wisdom enlightening Humankind (such as the story of Gukumatz). Cecrops, first King of Athens was said to have been half man, half snake.

                        In India, extensive histories exist regarding the Naga, a Reptilian race said to live underground and interact with the kings and others on the surface. These beings were said to have once lived on a continent in the Pacific Ocean which sank beneath the waves. This is a recurring story throughout the world. Indian histories also refer to a Reptilian race called the "Sarpa" who founded civilisation, creating the cannibalistic Dravidians, being the source of the Hindu caste system (based upon a Draconian caste hierarchy, apparently), and demanded human sacrifice. A Nordic race was said to have created the Aryans, and when the two peoples combined, they formed the beginnings of Indian civilisation. Ancient Sanscrit texts also refer to spacecraft and aircraft called Vimana. Nuclear debris has been found in regions said to be destroyed by 'the gods' in Kashmir and other locations throughout the Indian peninsula.

                        The Hopi refer to a race of Reptilians called the Sheti, or Snake-Brothers, who live underground. The Cherokee and other American Indian peoples also refer to Reptilian races, as well as their origins in Atlantis The Chinese, Japanese and Europeans extensively speak throughout their history of beings such as Dragons (both physical and non-physical forms thereof), Dracul (devil-dragon humanoids), Vampires, Kappa, and others. The first Emperor of China, Huang-Ti, was said to be part Dragon, and was said to be born looking like a Reptilian. It was also said that his mother was impregnated by a beam of light emanating from the star Alpha Draconis, which Stewart Swerdlow and others claim is the home star system of the Draco Reptilian species.

                        The Mayans speak of a Reptilian species, referred to often as "Iguana-Men", who descended from the sky to take control of their civilisation, teaching them the art of pyramid building as well as demanding human sacrifice.

                        Throughout the world, in apparently unconnected societies, the belief pervades that a Reptilian race lives beneath the Earth and interacts with the surface. In most cases another race, tall and "Nordic" in appearance, is described. These were the "Elves" of European lore. The Reptilians were often described as having a caste hierarchy, in which the highest caste was winged. This correlates with information from current abductees, contactees and former government employees who have disclosed information regarding alien interaction with Earth-governments.

                        In Africa, the Zulu shamans bear extensive esoteric knowledge of a race of reptilians who they say control the Earth--called the Chitahuri. They also have accounts of a Reptilian race who created Blacks and used them to work their gold mines, extremely similar to the accounts described in the Sumerian tablets.

                        In Sumeria ten thousand tablets have been found and translated which refer to an alien race which created a race of humans to work as slaves in their mines in Africa. This race is called the "Anunnaki", or the "Abbennakki", and it specifically states that the "Black-headed" people of Sumeria were created by these beings. The royalty was said to be a combination between "Dragons" and humans.

                        In China and Japan underground bases where the Dragon Kings live are referred to, as well as the lineage of humans from a race of 'Dragons'. (there are also many other reptilian races referred to, such as the Kappa).

                        In Australia the aborigines speak of a reptilian race which lives underneath the Earth and governs over men. The Aboriginal chiefs have spoken of going into the Earth where these beings resided. There they claim there is extensive technology. The Aborigines say that they are descended from a race of dragon-humans that once lived on an enormous continent that spanned the entire Pacific ocean, and that most of it sank beneath the waves in ancient times, but that Australia is a remnant of it, and this is why there are so many reptilian animals there.

                        In Pythagoras' life there may have been events related to serpents, particularly winged and speaking serpents, as well as a massive beast called Python, a giant serpent for which he may have been named. Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson and Philip K. Dick all have called themselves Pythagoreans. However, Wilson is known for stating various forms of conspiracy theory (he is also a high-level initiate of Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis), Dick's possible mental illness is covered in more detail below, and Leary is widely known to have consumed copious amounts of hallucinogens.

                        In the Middle-East, Reptilian beings ranging from certain Jinn to Dragons and Serpent-Men, have been spoken of since ancient times. In the Bible, the Nephilim are alluded to as being Reptilian, and in the related Book of Jasher, a serpent race is described. King Og of Bashan, a reputed Repha (giant) is called a "Serpent", and Bashan itself means "Serpent" in Ancient Hebrew. This could refer to the Sumerian-influenced worship of serpents and dragon-like creatures which pervaded the Canaanite people before the Israelites entered that region. The Israelites recorded that the former inhabitants of Canaan were "Serpents", "Repha'im", "Nephilim" and "Anakim".

                        Procopius of Caesaria, arguably the most important historical source on the Justinian period in Byzantine history, recounted in his Secret History that Emperor Justinian and his wife, Theodora, were "Dracul" (a word meaning both Dragon and Devil), and that several people had reportedly seen them either shapeshift into demonic-like beings, or associating with non-human beings, particularly one referred to as "The King of the Devils", a being most often portrayed as reptilian, with horns and wings.

                        Many ancient peoples worshipped a serpent-Goddess called El or Hel, which was considered the God-Goddess of the Underworld, the Moon, and Venus. These three locations (underground, the Moon, and Venus) are all described by abductees, former covert government employees, and the like, as being major bases for a reptilian species from the Draco star system who have been involved with this planet for at least two million years.

                        Modern claims

                        Erich von Daniken theorises that extraterrestrials have influenced human history for millennia, and that they may have influenced human evolution.

                        Philip K. Dick, a science fiction writer, wrote about contact with three-eyed amphibious beings from Sirius and their connection to the Soviets and the Illuminati. This was described in his book, VALIS. PKD claimed to have connected these creatures to the Nommo, a mythological belief held by the Dogon tribe of Mali. It is a subject of some debate as to whether or not PKD was suffering from temporal lobe epilepsy. His wife allegedly claimed that he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at one point in his life. It is unknown whether his reptilian beliefs were due to a brain disorder, the ingestion of pain killers, his fondness for methamphetamine and entheogens, or a combination of all three.

                        Christine Fitzgerald, a confidante of Diana, Princess of Wales, claims that Diana told her that the Royal Family had a connection to Reptilian aliens, and that they could shapeshift.

                        Sir Laurence Gardner, a Jacobite Genealogist, Historian, Knight, and holder of many other titles (which some are sceptical of the validity of), claims that a "Dragon Bloodline", a "Graal", was created in ancient Sumeria when reptilian aliens called "Anunnakki" descended upon the region and created a royal bloodline through genetic engineering.

                        David Icke claims that people see reptilian humanoids or dinosauroids, and that reptilian species are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy directed at the manipulation and control of humanity. According to Icke, hypothetical dinosauroids resemble one type of reptilian entity that people see during alleged encounters. Icke theorises that the reptilians evolved on this planet from dinosaurs or other reptile-like ancestors, and were the original tool-making race to evolve on Earth. Like most conspiracy theories, falsification of Icke's hypotheses is nearly impossible, but Icke continues to sell books and give speaking engagements based on concepts from the New Age and neofascism.

                        Timothy Leary claimed to have contact with three-eyed beings from Sirius.

                        Credo Mutwa, a Zulu shaman, claims that the Zulu people have known of a reptilian species called the Chitauli for centuries. He is the official historian of the Zulu people. He mentions amphibious beings from Sirius in his book, Song of the Stars.

                        Cathy O'Brien, a victim of CIA MKULTRA mind-control, claims to have seen George Bush shapeshift into a Reptilian being. She rationalised this as potentially being a holographic illusion.

                        Paul Shockley, a self-professed psychic, also speaks of malevolent reptilian beings. However, he explains that he does not believe that all reptilians are malevolent, and that there are benevolent members of this species as well.

                        Zecharia Sitchin, an archaeologist and linguist specialising in the Sumerian and Hebrew languages, claims that an ancient race of extraterrestrials, the Anunnaki, genetically engineered the original humans, and that they probably still exist in some form or another, with some degree of influence over humankind. These beings are speculated by Sitchin to be either reptilian, quasi-reptilian, or amphibious, from ancient description.

                        Stewart Swerdlow, a gifted mentalist, claims to possess extensive knowledge of alien intervention in Earth-human society, and describes in detail the activities of a Reptilian race called the Draco, originating in the Draco star system. He also mentions a more benevolent Reptilian race called the Abbennakki, which, he says, created the Black race in Africa. He claims that this is supported by ancient Sumerian tablets, as well as the histories of the indigenous peoples of Africa, such as the Zulu, as well as physical evidence such as ancient mines which have been discovered by the Anglo-American company, dating to 60,000 years B.C.

                        Prince Nicholas de Vere claims to be descended from an "unbroken Dragon-Bloodline" originating in Ancient Sumeria when an interdimensional Reptilian race created the first blueblood humans, the "Aryans" as he calls them.

                        Robert Anton Wilson writes about the Illuminati in the Illuminatus trilogy and other books. The book,Cosmic Trigger: The Final Secret of the Illuminati describes his drug-induced experiences with three-eyed beings from Sirius.

                        Joking References to Reptilians

                        On September 12, 2003, during the provincial election campaign in Ontario, Canada, a press release disseminated by the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party contained a line at the end that referred to rival Ontario Liberal Party leader Dalton McGuinty as an evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet. The release was not intended seriously, but did no good for the Conservative party campaign.
                        Peculiar Mentions of Reptilians

                        An article appeared in the Chicago Tribune, March 1, 1995, regarding an event in which George Bushnell, head of the American Bar Association, called the Republicans "Reptilian Bastards". Quote from the article: "The atmosphere in the litigation debate is getting as poisonous as the atmosphere in, well, litigation itself. Eighty-two House members have now called on George Bushnell, Jr., president of the 370,000-lawyer American Bar Association, to resign after he described the Republican leadership of Congress as "those reptilian bastards."

                        Conspiracy theories

                        There are many conspiracy theories centered around, or at least involving, extraterrestrials of reptilian lineage. Many of these posit that the so-called Greys (fictional creatures from another planet in the 1977 film Close Encounters of the Third Kind, since adopted as the archetypal extraterrestrial) are in fact reptiles, and should be categorized as "Reptoids".

                        David Icke claims, based on his exploration of genealogical connections to European royalty, that many presidents of the United States have been reptilian humanoids. In his view, United States foreign policy after September 11 is the product of a reptilian conspiracy to enslave humanity, with George W. Bush as its key player. (See also Bush family conspiracy theory.) Some conspiracy theorists claim to have worked out a "dichotomy of axes" involved in hypothetical interplanetary and intergalactic conflict, and place the reptilians in an evil "Draconian" "axis", while humans are one of the species that belongs in an opposing "Evadamic" "axis". Several other entities and parties have been placed into this conspiracy theory, with some players who switch allegiances between Draconian and Evadamic.

                        The Nazi-friendly, subterranean flying saucer-riding super race depicted in Vril: The Power of the Coming Race is sometimes associated with accounts of reptilian humanoids.

                        None of these "theories" have ever been validated by any scientifically credible research.
                        Reptilian humanoids in fiction

                        The Conan the Barbarian and King Kull stories by Robert E. Howard pitted their heroes on occasion against a race of serpent people; this race's background was greatly expanded upon during the development of the Cthulhu Mythos, with a history stretching into the dinosaur era.

                        Ancient reptilian races known as the Silurians and Sea Devils appear in the Doctor Who series.

                        Presumably in reference to Credo Mutwa's Chitauli and many of the conspiracies mention above, Marvel Comics' The Ultimates written by Mark Millar and with art by Bryan Hitch features updated versions of the villainous Skrull race called Chitauri. They have shape-changing abilities and have orchestrated various conspiricaies to exterminate the human race, the most successful of these plots was the rise of the Nazi party in Germany.

                        In the television series V, the aliens are reptilian creatures who disguise themselves in a complete covering that resembles human skin.

                        Reptilian humanoids in games

                        In the fictional Dungeons & Dragons fantasy universe, there are several species of reptilian, amphibian and fish-like humanoids. These include lizard-men (or lizard-folk), the weak, dog-like kobolds, the serpentine yuan-ti, the aquatic sahuagin, locathah and kuo-toa, and various types of half-dragons such as the draconian.

                        Lizardmen are a prominent race in the Warhammer Fantasy Battle wargame.

                        In the popular video game X-COM, Reptoids, or "Snakemen", are the foot soldiers for an alliance of genetically altered extra-terrestrial beings bent on the subjugation and control of Earth.
                        • Also Remember Tolken Based His Lord of the Rings Series on Nordic/Celtic Legend... The Dwarfs were a real Race called the Picts... They lived in ancient scotland/ireland and at one point, most of europe... They are famous for their Heather Honey Ale... Were the Norse in legend and in reality stole their recipe for Honey Mead from... Read the Norse Legend, in a new light...
                        • Manjushri, your writing is exceptional and tight, though I maintain a tight exception.

                          From your own words and understanding, DNA is a scalar wave antenna.

                          This means that DNA is a non physical potentiality until is combines with cosmic energy.

                          Scalar waves describe an etheric multiverse comprised, as you say, by many dimensions which are separated by resonant frequencies. Some higher frequency beings dwell in the lower realms as teachers and sages traveling between but most of the others do not see 'up'.

                          Further, DNA is not recursive. Bruce Lipton has clinically proven this. This means unquestionably that our presence is acquired. This also means that DNA is created in the field and not in the lab. This implies that our thoughts and feelings that inform the field are rewriting our DNA co-Creatively with God. This means that the field from which presence emerges is the sum total of thoughts and feelings capable of persisting within a given range of energies despite being dispersed infinitely across all scales of reality at once (a paradox relative to linear logic). Bashar? This also implies that an individual soul is simultaneously manifest across many or all dimensions at once and each aspect has a unique conscious experience.

                          There is no such thing as a bloodline via DNA hoarding though there may be a narrow band (dimension) that is controlled by the elites like the FCC controls phone, radio and television bandwidths. The elites relations in power was a result of a fear that the masses might revolt shortly after the French Revolution (I think) so they put cousins in front of the mobs rather than the Queen bee. Relatives were carefully selected not unlike the domestication of animals.

                          Chaos theory guarantees that any attempt to preempt the womb or the primacy of Gaia as Earth's only context will result in a reordering of a higher magnitude therefore births and blood cannot be controlled. Only the results. Royal Bloodline etiquette 101!

                          A bloodline means therefore that the physical offspring from birth can be coaxed to understand esoteric traditions, and the field from which they emerge is indeed their parents, which may be a narrow field, but purity eventually becomes muddled and hybridization inherently results.

                          Careful not to give too much credit where credit is not due. Test your own arguments by asking stupid questions rather than getting trapped by proving yourself to others to be correct. I say this to myself all the time.

                          We are writing the story including the intrigue of an elite group that provides an exotic scapegoat that oops, became reality, because we conspired to understand an assumed conspiracy. This is also true for aliens.

                          Are we writing a new story, discovering the old story or rebuilding the old story into a new story that allows ideas that higher dimensional science implies might be true?

                          The Milky Way is the Oroborus. We are all Reptilian from this perspective, a very BIG picture.

                          • pp:*Careful not to give too much credit where credit is not due. Test your own arguments by asking stupid questions rather than getting trapped by proving yourself to others to be correct. I say this to myself all the time. *
                            yes,
                            and keep a mirror close by
                            bruce lipton: have you a synopsis?
                            but please skip the recursive part
                            dna?
                            it was really good till you mentioned bashar
                            cat's asleep, bashar 'channels'
                            what about the dog?

                            surely, dmt must bore you
                            have you ever actually fasted? and for how long?
                            i think you may have a handle on sleep deprivation

                            *Bruce Lipton has clinically proven this.*
                            yeah, that's what they said about chemotherapy and radiation for cancer too

                            click the heels three times...
                            no, stupid
                            set the alarm
                            set the alarm
                            set the alarm

                            beer break
                            no, i lied
                            ok, half truth?
                          • Very good Stuff...

                            "This also implies that an individual soul is simultaneously manifest across many or all dimensions at once and each aspect has a unique conscious experience."

                            Yes, You are Projecting/Manifesting yourself from a Transcendental Space... (From OUTSIDE ALL of TIME and Space)... This means you live all your life times simultaneously... All of them All and All At Once...

                            "The Milky Way is the Oroborus."

                            Yes, I love to look at that... You can see it fairly well with google earth.

                            "We are all Reptilian from this perspective, a very BIG picture."

                            Earth Humans all have a Reptilian Part of The Brain...
                            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_brain

                            A study of evolutionary biology and embryology will tell you this as well as the fossil record...

                            • I wish to add further evidence that there is NO SUCH THING as a Reptilian race.

                              No matter where in the universe one may speculate that 'anything is possible', the laws of the universe are being applied here to so 'as below so above' if you get my drift.

                              Even an attempt to hybridize would be limited to the energy of the planet in question.

                              Emotion is a vehicle for spiritual attainment. A reptile's constitution could not achieve this and could never be manifest in higher consciousness for this reason and would not be used for DNA splicing for this reason, unless, there was an attempt to dumb down a race which would make new hybrids less conscious and servile rather than non emotive with skills.

                              The DNA coding would turn off if not harmonically compatible with either the place or the original humanoid etc..

                              The amazing David Wilcock mentions a few juicy tidbits in his video called the 2012 ENIGMA.
                              video.google.com/videoplay

                              Listen from 23:10 - 23:45 regarding his thinking (and mine) re serpeant people. You may wish to listen a few minutes longer to see evidence of the pineal in nearly every ancient culture suggesting their knowledge of the conscious resonating capacity of the pineal gland and kundalini energy. This is why Tsarion refers to the Vatican as a Saturnian Cult given the symbolism that follows Sumeria and Babylonia. I think rather we are all Sumerians in this sense wearing Greek and Roman disguises due to the diempowering allegories that pineal power was converted into.

                              To create a reptilian race to excuse our impotence does not cut it for me. This is where self-responsibility comes in and how we can help each other at this crucial time. There are windows of time that provide CRITICAL access to cosmic energy. The reptilians are a filter that will mediate 'access' not unlike the effect of any religion. I do not agree with David Icke for this reason and even his mentor Jordan Maxwell has created distance but they are both dark in their story-telling.

                              How may we max cosmic conscious awareness if we are wearing armour when it arrives. Ideas are armour too! And BTW, it's already here!

                              Our timelines are mangled from linear constructions that if not careful including the presumption that something BIG will happen in December of 2012, we will wake up in 2013 and the party will be over for the next 26,000 years.

                              Now, no filters, naked and brave and especially, no ego.

                              The rising of the kundalini is the serpeant Manjushri. Of course the serpeant would be personified but to suggest that there is a humanoid serpeant or dragon race I feel is impossible.

                              There seem to be many races of off-world entities that are coming to light at this time including the greys which some say are energy beings wearing grey suits. This makes sense because the vibe and atmosphere might require this. Maybe Wilcock is correct that the headdress was seen as serpeant like.

                              I hope this makes sense.
                              • Makes wonderful Sense... I disagree... But makes wonderful sense... I do believe in physical reptilian races of beings... For my own reasons... It took me a very long time to sort it all out... and understand... I also agree with what you said...

                                "Emotion is a vehicle for spiritual attainment. A reptile's constitution could not achieve this and could never be manifest in higher consciousness for this reason and would not be used for DNA splicing for this reason, unless, there was an attempt to dumb down a race which would make new hybrids less conscious and servile rather than non emotive with skills. "

                                BINGO!!!

                                Reptilian though is just a general term... Unlike Tsarion I do Believe the Draconian Race to be Physically like Dragons. I Also believe that what many call Reptilian Aliens are Hybrids from Draconian and Earth Reptile DNA... I also Believe there are hundreds, possibly thousands, of Reptilian Races of Beings... Some Advanced some Not... In this Galaxy.

                                I got that Clip in my profile... In the Links Section... with a link to his web site as well... Great stuff... I posted it awhile back for a thread on the Calcification of the Pineal Gland...

                                "The rising of the kundalini is the serpeant Manjushri. Of course the serpeant would be personified but to suggest that there is a humanoid serpeant or dragon race I feel is impossible."

                                I agree the Kundalini is a symbolic Serpent... However, I Believe There is are Dragon Races... As well as Serpent Races... Ect. Ect.

                                I agree to Disagree...
                                • "I agree the Kundalini is a symbolic Serpent... However, I Believe There is are Dragon Races... As well as Serpent Races... Ect. Ect."

                                  My view is the converse which is damned intriguing!

                                  "I agree to Disagree..."

                                  Honest question, do you truly believe or have you just put so much time into the book project that you must stick to the initial argument?

                                  Somehow I feel that this will all get answered soon.

                                  Re your research Manjushri, I think that Swerdlow is a very questionable character who speaks of 'getting out'. Nobody gets out once indoctrinated. He speaks extensively of mind control and triggers. He is living proof that for a select few it's true. His message is fear. To fear is to worship. I say ignore this guy which is further supported by the misinformation in his books. Historically many are told 90% truth and 10% hogwash so that illumination remains inaccessible. I feel that's what he is about.
                                  • 'My view is the converse which is damned intriguing! "

                                    LOL, I thought so too.

                                    "Honest question, do you truly believe or have you just put so much time into the book project that you must stick to the initial argument? "

                                    At first... I just studied with an open mind. The more I experienced, the more I believed. I suppose even with everything I have seen and heard... Even with my own eyes and ears... I could be completely wrong... I admit that.

                                    Swerdlow... I just now checked him out... Did I cite Him? 13 Cubed... Mind-Conrol & Programming... hmmm. I will check it out more...

                                    I am more talking about 1984, Brave New World, Strange Gods...,Trance-Formation of America ( www.conspiracyresearch.org/foru...x.php ) Ect. ect.
                                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_control

                                    mcrais.googlepages.com/index0.htm
                                    www.firecommunications.com/mcontrol/

                                    Cathy O'Brian and Arizona Wilder...
                                    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_O%27Brien
                                    video.google.com/videosearch

                                    Do not buy Fear... Do not Manifest Fear... Do not Sell Fear... There is Nothing to Fear...
                                    Fear is the mind killer...

                                    The Power Elite Fear Us... A well informed and motivated public... And if you are informed... How can you not be motivated?
                                    • i am more inclined to believe cathy o'brien than arizona wilder. are they in the same nutshell? my hunch says no...
                                      • Both talked about George Bush Jr... being a Reptilian... According to Cathy O'Brien, he shapeshifted in front of her, then told her very literally that he was actually an Alien Being, that they control the world... but no one suspects anything because they CAN look human... They are in the Same Nut Shell.. Both Victims of Mind Control... Like poor Mia here...
                                        • pp:*Both Victims of Mind Control... Like poor Mia here...*
                                          Sat, July 5, 2008 - 1:12 PM

                                          not to get too personal here, so any may reply at their discretion
                                          if this mind control being so, it should be known who her controller is/was?
                                          when *they* are through with you, are you left to wander/spin?
                                          do you believe she is currently under direct influence?
                                          you have suggested some kind of intervention. would this have to be initiated by mia?

                                          • when *they* are through with you, are you left to wander/spin?

                                            _________

                                            roger, i believe this is when one is completely taken over by another entity. not unlike demonic possession. these just happen to be "aliens"

                                            so... you're not there anymore. you're gone and you don't even know it. your soul and spirit have left and the void has been filled with them. they think like you do, feel, etc... that's the concerning part. they mold themselves into your own being.. to become you.

                                            there are alot of people that fall into this category and have no earthly idea what's going on. i am told that this is becoming a real problem with humanity at this time.

                                            one thing that i have been able to do in my travels is to open people up and see what's inside. people have all sorts of stuff inside themselves. i look at many in high levels of goverment... there are many, many dragons residing in people. i never saw that a year ago. there's been an upshift of sort.
                                        • Both talked about George Bush Jr... being a Reptilian... According to Cathy O'Brien, he shapeshifted in front of her, then told her very literally that he was actually an Alien Being, that they control the world... but no one suspects anything because they CAN look human... They are in the Same Nut Shell.. Both Victims of Mind Control... Like poor Mia here...

                                          ____________

                                          i've known that bush hasn't been bush since early last year.

                                          it's not him.
                                    • pp:*The Power Elite Fear Us... *
                                      Tue, June 24, 2008 - 8:31 PM

                                      really?
                                      what planet are you on? or were you on, or maybe will be on...?
                                      you did astound me with your knowledge on astro physics, but beyond that
                                      imho
                                      maybe you also know lots about kirby vacuum cleaners

                                      i have to admit, this tribe thing is far more fascinating than i ever thought possible
                                      maybe you should take a look over at the survivalist tribe
                                      anis don't need cable to read...
                                      try reading the fox network news by scott
                                      and tell us, most illuminated one
                                      what you think
                                      cuz part 2, the worst, was never shown on tv
                                      but it happened...

                                      ON THE ROAD TO 2012
                                      • "The Power Elite Fear Us"

                                        Roger, I agree with this statement. This is why the many suppressive tactics were imposed in the first place.

                                        A fearful populace can be controlled.

                                        The fact that people are paying attention more than ever, this is a threat to control. Why are the gas prices and food prices so high? Maybe as an alternate imposition of fear because other scare tactics are not working and threats of terrorism has engendered unity rather than fear. The elite believe themselves to be managing the ignorant masses and that they are deserving of life's greatest gifts, which reminds me of the Fraternities and Sororities in college frankly LOL, so when large groups show signs of organized dissension, fear abounds.

                                        Pay attention to little things like the many private groups who are working on clean air, and alternative food production, and green products and infiltrating government jobs with enlightened trainees and a shift to self sufficiency and social responsibility and generally being pissed off by the betrayal. It's everywhere I look, including folks whom in the past I would consider to be conservative. The self proclaimed elites have been operating for thousands of years without much competition and now they have become diluted and their system of control are failing. Nobody wants to destroy a world that they wish to control despite the many ridiculous doomsayers cries to the contrary. Spirituality is the key. I am extremely optimistic.
                                      • in a sense the powers that be are afraid.

                                        why do they hide in secrecy?

                                        what would happen / does happen when people find out? on a small scale it's easy for them to deal with. on a larger scale.. well it's war time and they don't want that out in the open. what is war to them?

                                        national security and classified.... words being dropped around like candy. does that bother anyone? it does me. what about area 51? why can't i put one of my toes on their piece of land.. literally. are they there because they found a few aliens 50 years ago that crashed? i'd say not. these are all questions that people should be asking.


                                        and another thing worth pondering is this...

                                        if the other aliens that are shifing in and out of our dimensions are not afraid of us then why don't they just land? this sneaking around stuff sounds like terrorists who are not strong enough to deal in the open... not yet anyways.

                                        we're further along in our technology than most realize.

                                        i've never been a conspiracy theorist, nor one prone to attacks. experiencing this first hand of course changes all that.
                                        call it psychotic, call it whatever you want. i'm under attack and i travel & see whether i want to or not. it's all military. for a pacifist that's startling in itself. it's high tech shamanism and mind control.

                                        and this is just the information that we know about:
                                        just a little drop... there's alot of info to shift around in.

                                        they throw around the word "synthetic" telepathy. it's alien. they'd like you to think it's synthetic.

                                        most of these sites still don't have all the pieces to this puzzel of high technology and the extent of these programs.

                                        www.pigeonpress.org/mindcontrol.html

                                        www.angelfire.com/or/mctrl/

                                        www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/ebomb.html

                                        www.mindcontrolforums.com/index.htm

                                        www.subversiveelement.com/MK_Ps...s.html

                                        video.google.com/videoplay

                                        9-11themotherofallblackoperations.blogspot.com
                              • "There seem to be many races of off-world entities that are coming to light at this time including the greys which some say are energy beings wearing grey suits. This makes sense because the vibe and atmosphere might require this. Maybe Wilcock is correct that the headdress was seen as serpeant like."

                                I think they ('Greys') are Physical Beings... Wearing Nano-Tech Grey Suits And Contacts.
                                • upon up close inspection of they greys, i have to disagree (upon personal experience) that they are wearing nano-tech suits and contacts. why do we call them grey? is it a hue? an idea? grey matter? the closer i've gotten to "them" the more is revealed to "me" (parenthesis due to my own idea of separateness, illusitory). i've nothing worth expressing here really in regard to the information received, but i fail to find the grey matter isn't anything but either confusion and a strive to maintain some sort of separation. we add faces that aren;t there or clearly defined and they are a shifty multidimensionality (wordy), but i guess that clarity comes in time too. i find them as physical as a ray of light and a shadow, and other stuff like it. its physical, but only in a sense, lacking density. i've had several contacts over the years. the information generally remains the same, though my interpretation changes as i grow more, the information matures...
                                  • do we discount language in these interpretations? it would be prudent to consider origins in relationship to language, formations of the visions and voices and how we interpret them. i stick with the "greys" often because of language and my draw to sacred geometry and octaves, etc... they're in there... all of 'em are.

                                    when i see a "grey", i look at it, closer and closer, eyes begin to blur, watery eyes, opened or closed? white noise, its body, a tone, vibe, vehicle, .... my mind receives information, of what use? who knows! no emotional attachment, fear comes closer, the information is tainted. i release, and there it is. an angel? alien? unknown. letting go has its value.

                                    i'm open to bartering. :)
                                    • i stick with the "greys" often because of language and my draw to sacred geometry and octaves, etc... they're in there... all of 'em are.

                                      ______________

                                      good point anistara...

                                      in my visions, which are in many cases symbolic, i see lots of geometric designs. i'm now seeing polygon doors that i never saw before. in tunnels and craft.
                                  • And what Species of 'Grey' were they... Once again.. Most people... Particularly Abductees... Are seeing CyberNetic Greys... These are Cyber Netic Organisms... They are not From Space.. They are made here on earth in labs underground... They other type of 'grey' that abduct are the Dol universe greys... These are taller and seem to almost have nose... you have seen them.. they are the taller greys that are always in the shadows during the abductions... you will never seen them that... I am not an abductee... I am a contactee... I have had tea with Wild Zeta... The ones that never became a slave race to the draconians... I was given most of their history... They wear contacts... You will see... But don't take my word for it... study more... Other know... Others have said the same thing... Credu Mutwa for one... many in the military... ect. ect... other contactees... even some of the autopsies... I have personally seen them take them out to show me.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    the problem i have with this Manjushri is there is a difference between theory and proven concept.

                    Stuff may be all over the internet, but then again there is a lot of unreilable stuff all over the net.

                    However, i keep an open mind.


                    • Yes...

                      Some of the books outlines these details are hundred of years old.... some of the records are thousands... Some is brand new... This is not just a couple fringe people spouting things... It is a well documented trail that anyone with time can follow... Yes there is a lot of mis-information, and a lot of lack of true understanding... but that was what this post was all about...

                      I can prove any and all of it... Most of this is based on Hard Scientific Fact.
                      • one thing i can say Manjushiri is i respect the way you talk, this has been something ive been puzzled about for a time, so im going to take time out to read through your stuff properly and follow the links, and see what i find.
                        • Thank you!!!

                          You get it...

                          I want people to go out and research and find out their own truths...
                          • manjo?

                            tad bit bitter tonite?

                            wordcounter: i think elo may have finally learned the lesson
                            i have not called you on it
                            yet
                            will take me some time...
                            but u never appeared to waste any before
                            • it took me ten seconds
                              you grew up with these stories, you say
                              which ones have you come to believe?
                              some are between fable and myth
                              i tell the truth; most of these i have never even heard of
                              but i
                              trek
                              on
                              • just finished
                                funny you never mentioned the cradle of all civilization:
                                the hu
                                many millions of years ago; i foget just how many
                                they were well before atlantis
                                • Hmm... Some of that is covered in one of my books.... I may have talked about it some...
                                  Long before Humans were here, The Cetaceans (dolphin-like and whale like beings) sent out a call to the galaxy to look for a Land Based Planetary Guardian... They got Help from the Vegans in the Lyra Constellation. Aquatic Primates were bred with the Primates of this planet... To do this the GF brought in benevolent Draconians... Do to their genetic mastery...

                                  Before that even... thu... Before Life was even really beginning here... There was a race of Etheric Beings and a civilization... They are actually the ones to blame all of this on... They are US.. they are our souls.. They are the ones that set evolution in motion on this planet so that one day they may inhabit carnal beings... Think of YOU as a symbiote between a Spiritual Being... and the Multi-Cellular Organism that is your body...
                                  • not hu
                                    mu
                                    sorry

                                    time for nap

                                    which stories have YOU come to
                                    believe?

                                    i suppose i am out of my league
                                    did you ever play...
                                    hockey?
                                    football?
                                    maybe some baseball?
                                    how about pinball?
                                    i reinvented that game
                                    but too late now...

                                    the enemy
                                    is so well entrenched
                                    evil has prepared well this time
                                    but what if no earth is left
                                    after 2012...
                                    and the others
                                    that you spoke/speak of
                                    are in for a big big
                                    surprise...
                                    • OHHH... Sorry I went TOOO FAR BACK... LOL

                                      LeMUria...

                                      Yes The Tibetans are descendants from MU...

                                      So are many tribes in North, South and Central America... As well as Japan and Hawaii... Which makes sense.. Lemuria was a oceanic continent consisting mostly of coral reef and volcanos... Stretching from Hawaii to the Galapagos... It sank beneath the waves after the Great Deluge caused by the War Between Atlantis and Lemuria...

                                      HMM Cradle of Life... Well Atlantis is were the first experiments really happened... The first Earth Humans, or Homo-Atlantis... were very different than Most of us are today... They later rebelled and started Lemuria... Later they would go to war over the Slave Race of Dumbed Down Earth Humans... or Modern Man.. These are the wars of the Veda... and the war between the gods in the Edda, Greek/Roman mythos... After the destruction of both continents the survivors fled to different parts of the world... The Lemurians traveling to many different places... and the Atlantans mostly going to Northern Africa/Middle-East/Central Asia... Pleiadeans mostly Ruled Egypt while... Orions Ruled in Summer, Reptilians Ruled other parts of Africa... The Draconians Went Under-Ground after the war...

                                      I believe the stories I write... lol
                                      I am sorta of telling you the story I believe now...

                                      I played Soccer, Basket Ball, Foot Ball (American), Base Ball...I hate spectating... I would rather play... SO I don't watch it on TV (don't watch TV at all sense about 98ish) or get into statistics... Nowa Daze... I Spin Fire... Hike... Bike... Practice Martial Arts... LOL Hacky Sack.... Bo-Staff and Bokken... and a few other fun things...

                                      The Enemy is in for suprise... lol
                                      An Armada of GF ships are waiting just outside the solar system waiting on that time.... We Win... Check out my blog on Dimensions and the convo between me and Bedouin... you'll understand more after that... I don't want to get to much more into it here... at least not tonight...
                                      • I've come to think of the stories of atlantis and lemuria as allegory, or at any rate not physically true. The reason i think this is because of plant distribution. If there had been world civilizations in the past, one would expect to find the evidence in the plants that humans have been using for so long for food and fiber. Beans and cotton were grown in both old and new worlds, but they are quite different varieties, and contain genetic evidence that they have been distinct and not crossed for a very long time. Also, we bring weeds and other travelers with us wherever we go by accident. There is no such botanical evidence for lost continents. I would expect to find many many species were moved around by ancient lemurians and atlanteans, but there is no evidence of anything of the sort.

                                        On the other hand, vast tracts of land that is now the continental shelf around india, the mediterranean, and britain, were above sea level at the end of the last ice age, but inundated by rising seas. These would have been the nicest areas for human habitation, and i think it is likely these ancient lands that are remembered as lemuria and atlantis.
                                        • Nice point Wil and here's some "documentation" to back you up.

                                          www.geocities.com/n4awi/seth23.htm

                                          Atlantis -

                                          Your ideas of Atlantis are partially composed of future memories. They are psychic yearnings toward the ideal civilization--patterns within the psyche, even as each fetus has within it the picture of its own most ideal fulfillment toward which it grows.

                                          Atlantis is a land that you want to inhabit, appearing in your literature, your dreams, and your fantasies, serving as an impetus for development. It is real and valid. In your terms it is not "yet' physical fact, but in some ways it is more real than any physical fact, for it is a psychic blueprint.

                                          It carries also, however, the imprint of your fears, for the tales say that Atlantis was destroyed. You place it in your past while it exists in your future. Not the destruction alone, but the entire pattern seen through the framework of your beliefs. Beside this, however, many civilizations have come and gone in somewhat the same manner, and the "myth” [of Atlantis] is based somewhat then on physical fact in your terms.

                                          The species then moves into its own new houses. Atlantis is the story of a future probability projected backward into an apparent past.

                                          Your planet as you know it is a certain kind of focus point for consciousness. At your level you think it is divided into areas of land and water-continents and oceans, islands and peninsulas, cities and woods-because that is all you perceive. Your consciousness is tuned in to frequencies of perception that give you that impression. A cat's world, or an insect's or a plant's, are each far different, yet equally valid.

                                          As simply as I can explain it, your planet is also "divided” into time and probability areas. Period. So many civilizations exist at once, then, and there are certain bleed-throughs. In your terms some civilizations are real and perceivable, and some are not.

                                          "Atlantis. First of all, take it for granted--as you do--that your ideas about the age of the earth are erroneous. There were intelligent human beings far earlier than is supposed; and because you assume a one-line kind of progression from an apelike creature to man, you ignore any evidence that shows to the contrary. There were highly developed human beings with elaborate civilizations, existing simultaneously with what you might call animal kingdoms--that is, more or less organized primeval animal tribes, possessing their own kinds of ‘primitive' cultures.

                                          "Those animal kingdoms, some of them, utilized tools. Their senses were extremely acute, and their ‘cultures' dealt with a kind of transmission of knowledge that made a highly complicated vocabulary unnecessary.

                                          "Those species did not vie for domination of the earth, but simply shared the same general environment with the more sophisticated groupings beyond their own perimeters. There were many highly technical human cultures, but in your terms not on a global scale. The legend of Atlantis is actually based upon several such civilizations. No particular civilization is the basis, however. Apart from that, the legend as picked up, so to speak, by Plato was a precognition of the future probability, an image of an inner civilization of the mind actually projected outward into the future, where it would be used as a blueprint, dash-the lost grandeur, as, in other terms, Eden became the lost garden of paradise.


                                          -- Seth
                                          • Well time being A fractal...
                                            And not linear... and Seeing how you actually live your life-times (all of them) Simultaneously...
                                            Or that all of reality manifested as the first conscious being viewed that wave of possibility and we are just going through the formality of actually occurring...
                                            In that sense I agree...
                                            But There is plenty of physical Evidence of Atlantis in what most people mistakenly call "the past"....
                                        • Actually we do... For example there was tobacco found in Eygpt... Mummified (Eygption style) Baboons found in South America.. Serpent Shaped boats in Norway... Umm there are no serpents in Norway... there aren't even any in Ireland...much less norway... I have also studied botany, herbalism and Ethnobotany... there are many plants used by both South Americans and people in India... The exact same plants used with similar histories of the plants... here is a good one... There are Giant Spiny Ant-eaters in South America... Their only living relative is the Platypus of Australia... Also Opossum are marsupials, that have been steadily moving north from south america for thousands of years... They are now in FL/TX/GA/AB/VA.... I could keep going... looks like you need to look in to that thought a bit more... of course if you believe Pangia that may explain some... but remember that would have been millions of years not 100,000s of thousands... or as little as 13,000 years ago...
                                          But main point is... WE HAVE FOUND plants used by humans... with very specific uses and stories... being used by people thousands of miles apart... in the ancient world... Being used in the same way with similar stories... There were of course much more migration that modern science admits... particularly by boat... But that only supports what I am saying...
                                          • Also remember... Plants need Specific conditions... For example Indigo will grow here in Oregon... But it is grown in Japan... It does not grow well in China... Or pretty much anywhere else... So if you took Indigo to South America... Most likely it would not grow...
                                            Also Sub-Species and even entirely new species can actually evolve in 10s of years (if the life cycle is short enough)... Not that millions or thousands of years taught by modern evolution... Thought that too is changing... For example there was a moth in europe... It had wings that looked like the tree bark of a tree in the area... this protected them from being eaten... A coal electrical plant was build near where these trees/moths lived... the soot from the plant go on the trees... making the moths stand out... they started to get eaten... With in 10 years every thought they had died out... no one saw moths that looked like them anymore... Well... Someone finally decided to check it out.. turns out... the moths evolved in 10 years to have a completely different wing color (was a creamy color to a very dark brown) that better matched the trees that now always had soot on them... My point here is.... Any plant brought over from a different environment would evolve in 13,000 years...
                                            Or it would Die out... We have much evidence of this as well as plants that have not changed much in 100,000 years...
                                          • There are, in fact, snakes in norway. I've never heard of baboons in south america. Actually, i just looked it up now, and there aren't any, but a local name for a howler monkey in belieze is baboon, so i guess that's where the confusion comes from. The nicotine mummy thing looks very highly doubtful
                                            .www.straightdope.com/columns/010126.html

                                            You are right about the animals. They are similar because their ancestors were together as one species on an ancient continent called Gondwanaland, which subsequently broke up into south america and australia.

                                            I think this they are called "disjunct species" , like american and chinese ginsengs are disjunct species, likewise chestnuts and a long list of plants and animals are disjunct between the appalachians and china ( among many other places). These are much more ancient than humans. MUCH.
                                            • well...I was just naming a few off the top of my head... but point is there is in fact proof of that kind of trade and travel... It has puzzled historians and archeologists for years... this is not a new topic... look back to older books... Though there has been a lot of new discoveries about ancient migration and trade...
                                            • As far as the plant thing goes... I can give you a huge list of plants that are used by South American Natives... that are also used in Ayurvedic Medicine in India... Some of which are used in Tibet... all talking about similar flood stories... and being from MU...
                                              • m:
                                                >>>look back to older books...<<<
                                                what for?
                                                atlantis?
                                                how long ago do you put intelligent life on this planet?

                                                Planet X, Comets and Earth Changes

                                                Surviving Planet X Passage

                                                Atlantis to Tesla - The Kolbrin Connection
                                                by: jim mccanney: astro physics...i think

                                                i don't need a thousand or so sources; this one will do
                                                i read his stuff years ago and never was so moved...
                                                and astrology i know little of, except the accepted basics that any other idiot should be able to figure out
                                                i cannot even find these books, but they are around here, or there, somewhere
                                                i have read a couple hundred of great books, essays, abstracts
                                                no where near you in number but covers such a range of subjects
                                                yet the tru....understanding

                                                f...
                                                monday morn and soon to work. not a bad weekend tho
                                                but i have one more thread to respond too...
                                                when you were a kid, did you always have your homework done...?
                                                • ">>>look back to older books...<<<
                                                  what for?
                                                  atlantis?
                                                  how long ago do you put intelligent life on this planet? "

                                                  Yes. The written history of this planet is repleat with Aliens, References of Atlantis and Lemuria, Genetic Manipulations, Advanced Technology in Pre-Diluvian times... Including Space Craft and Nuclear weapons... Some of these texts are far older than the Bible... the Vedas, Eddas, Epic of Gilgamesh (one of the post Diluvian kings of Sumer, He ruled for 126 years... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_king_list )... Some of the Vedas date to 7000 BC or 9000 years ago... All of which are based on Older Cuneiform Tablets from Sumer...

                                                  'how long ago do you put intelligent life on this planet? '

                                                  Long before there were any 2 or 4 legs animals there was a society of Etheric Beings living on this planet... Organic life was little more than single celled blue/green algae... Making way for the more complex life that the Etheric Beings would inhabit much later on...Billions of years for intelligent life...

                                                  But as far as What Your talking about... Dolphins are 60 Million years more evolved than Humans and Whales are 200 million years more evolved... So a long ass time ago... I will have to research the Akashic Records for a more precise date...
                                                  • what does 60 million years more evolved mean? evolutionary leaps seem to take on board previous lifeforms, so for a dolphin to be more evolved than a human, it should have appeared after us, bringing with it the faculties gained from the human experience. Else we'd all be worshipping coelacanths and their 400million year superiority.
                                                    • "what does 60 million years more evolved mean?"

                                                      Well for one they are Conscious breathers... they literally have to think about it each time they breathe... We are only Semi-Conscious....

                                                      They have sonar... Do we? (oh btw it doesn't work like a bats.. which use only high pitched sounds... Dolphins and Whales use a form of Electromagnetic Field Sonar... along with echo location...)

                                                      These 2 don't have much to do with them being more evolved...

                                                      They have a highly complex and sophisticated language... Yes that is right...science, Hard Science, is long past theory that they have a language... it is 100% confirmed... And it is on par with Sanskrit for it's complexity and it's ability to express...

                                                      They also have a society...

                                                      BTW neither are 400million years more evolved... Whales are 200 million... Dolphins are 60 million...

                                                      We did worship Dolphins.... all over the world... And yes...back when they lived on land they were far different... much like wolves... and Whales were like sea-cow/hippo/manatee types... They evolved long before homo sapiens... Which only appeared 200,000 years ago... Lucy... who was not homo sapien.... is our oldest hominid fossil and dates to a mere 4.6 million years... Dolphins had already been in the sea for over 40millions at that point... 20 millions years before we even could talk... they had language... and sonar... and society.

                                                      And if you listen to my craziness... They are the reason WE are even here... They were the ones that wanted a Planetary Guardian on Land... Since they had Taken over the seas... They Called on Help from the Galactic Humans... Who brought in Aquatic Primates to mix with the Earth Primates... for stage 1... then slowly mixed in genes from other species of Galactic Humans... That was long before the Draconian manipulations which started about 500,000 years ago...
                                                      • >>>And if you listen to my craziness... <<< life:101

                                                        what else do me and my children have for a saturday nite?

                                                        sometimes one is here, and not always by choice

                                                        kind of sorry you don't drink...but don't worry
                                                        i drink more than for the three of us

                                                        i do believe this is the best thread of the tribe

                                                        tough to try to educate all, especially between the stubborn and the stupid
                                                        • I brew beer and wine... mostly barley wine and honey mead. It is part of my diet.
                                                          I don't drink Hard A... if that is what you mean...
                                                          Om Ganja Guru Hum... =p
                                                          • conscious breathing don't sound too much fun & I was glad to give up conscious liver functioning 220million years ago when I was in control of a rebel band of newly formed haemoglobins before the white brotherhood entered the network and..hang on, no, sorry that was 10 years ago.

                                                            So, yeah, dolphins have a complex language system. It has to be complex to locate and describe stuff in the murky brine where visual impairment is rather high. Hard science, to my best knowledge, which is far from the best knows, that dolphins all create an individual macro language. and it's not understood how it works as a language so any comparison with a human language, particularly sanskrit, is rather , well..... did you just make that up? most beasties have a society (x)

                                                            so, where's that calculator.. aha. No, you'll see I mentioned coelacanths are 400 million years estimate.

                                                            right, now...(shuffle shuffle)

                                                            homo sapiens arrived 200,000 years ago.

                                                            4 million years ago we were part of the lucy trunk of hominids.

                                                            4 million years ago dolphins had been in the sea for 40 million years

                                                            40 million years ago was (maybe) 20 million years before we could talk (whatever we were then) ?

                                                            So, at some point between 20 million years ago and...well I'm not sure, we worshipped dolphins who had evolved into wolves (with sonar?)

                                                            I guess I wonder why you mention science at all to back up a bit of something. I also don't know why there needs to be any claim of galactic human involvement. It's not spiritually useful. Your myths work so much better when the "science" part isn't involved.

                                                            Anyhoo, I personally like the myth that there is no galactic assistance. The reason we are as we are is because we are the pinnacle of universal consciousness evolution. that way, there is no need for galactic or mother maya retribution for wrongdoings, cause we're just innocents flapping further up the sands of time... the spark burning further along a page of infinite touchpaper.... etc

                                                            damn, that may mean I might liken calleman's notion. in principle. grrrr

                                                            I may crack open a guniness for roger this eve. best you can get in the absence of a decent glass of murphys
                                                            • "40 million years ago was (maybe) 20 million years before we could talk (whatever we were then) ?

                                                              So, at some point between 20 million years ago and...well I'm not sure, we worshipped dolphins who had evolved into wolves"

                                                              No... Greeks and Romans worshiped Dolphins as well as Maya, and Chinese... Like I said all over the world... And in written history... not before the Deluge but after.... Though Dolphins were worshiped in predeluvian times...

                                                              No, Dolphins evolved from a wolf like ancestor...

                                                              Dolphins, along with whales and porpoises, are descendants of terrestrial mammals, most likely of the Artiodactyl order. The ancestors of the modern day dolphins entered the water roughly fifty million years ago, in the Eocene epoch

                                                              I said over 40 millions cause I was Lazy... We might have been Lemurs at that point.... LOL

                                                              Science has everything to do with it... A long time ago... Spirituality and Science were one... The Dark Ages ended that... to make both Occult and hidden from the Main Population...

                                                              I write Science Fiction...
                                                              Though I do some Pure Fantasy...
                                                              Think of me as a modern Isaac Asimov


                                                              "there is no need for galactic or mother maya retribution for wrongdoings, cause we're just innocents flapping further up the sands of time..."

                                                              The Retributions are not for our wrongdoings... We are a Slave Race... We were manipulated Genetically and controlled for thousands of year... Humans are basically good... look to native societies... We are innocents... Humans are not the problem on this planet...
                                                              • en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphins
                                                                en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolp..._mythology

                                                                Dolphins appear in a number of Greek myths, invariably as helpers of humankind. Dolphins also seem to have been important to the Minoans, judging by artistic evidence from the ruined palace at Knossos.

                                                                A dolphin rescued the poet Arion from drowning and carried him safe to land, at Cape Taenarum, now Cape Matapan, a promontory forming the southernmost point of the Peloponnesus. There was a temple to Poseidon and a statue of Arion riding the dolphin. (Herodotus I.23; Thucydides I.128, 133; Pausanias iii.25, 4)

                                                                The Greeks reimagined the Phoenician god Melqart as Melikertês (Melicertes) and made him the son of Athamas and Ino. He drowned but was transfigured as the marine deity Palaemon, while his mother became Leucothea. (cf Ino.) At Corinth, he was so closely connected with the cult of Poseidon that the Isthmian Games, originally instituted in Poseidon's honor, came to be looked upon as the funeral games of Melicertes.
                                                                Young aulos-player riding a dolphin: red-figure stamnos, ca 360-340 BCE, found in Etruria, (National Archeological Museum, Madrid)
                                                                Young aulos-player riding a dolphin: red-figure stamnos, ca 360-340 BCE, found in Etruria, (National Archeological Museum, Madrid)

                                                                Phalanthus was another legendary character brought safely to shore (in Italy) on the back of a dolphin, according to Pausanias.

                                                                Many seals and coins show a man or boy riding a dolphin.

                                                                Dionysus was once captured by Etruscan pirates who mistook him for a wealthy prince they could ransom. After the ship set sail Dionysus invoked his divine powers, causing vines to overgrow the ship where the mast and sails had been. He turned the oars into serpents, so terrifying the sailors that they jumped overboard, but Dionysus took pity on them and transformed them into dolphins so that they would spend their lives providing help for those in need.

                                                                Dolphins were also the messengers of Poseidon, Greek god of the sea, and sometimes did errands for him as well.

                                                                Dolphins were sacred to both Aphrodite and Apollo.


                                                                In Hindu mythology the Ganges River Dolphin is associated with Ganga, the deity of the Ganges river. The dolphin is said to be among the creatures which heralded the goddess' descent from the heavens [1] and her mount, the Makara, is sometimes depicted as a dolphin [2].

                                                                The Boto dolphins in the Amazon River are shapeshifters, or encantados, who are capable of having children with human women.
                                                                • www.ancientspiral.com/dolphin1.htm

                                                                  Sacred Whales and Dolphins

                                                                  For many cultures across the world, whales and dolphins are associated with divine powers and are seen as superior beings. In ancient Greece, to kill a dolphin was equal to killing a human and was a crime punishable by death. For dolphins were seen messengers for the Gods, and were closely associated with Poseidon's daughters, the Nereids, the goddess of love Aphrodite, the heroine Galatea and the music-loving sun god, Apollo. It was said that the constellation Delphinus, the dolphin, was put in the sky by Poseidon in gratitude to the dolphins for finding his bride Amphitrite.

                                                                  In the rainforests of the Amazon Basin, the native Indians tell literally thousands of legends about the mysterious pink Amazon river dolphin, also called the Boto. Stories abound of the river dolphins taking human form and wooing young girls. They are often as regarded as unlucky, as they may tempt unknowing men and women into the water, where they are taken to Encante, the underwater world of no return. Similar tales of shape shifting are told of the elusive Baiji, or Yangtze river dolphin.

                                                                  In Sumeria, dolphins were connected to Ea-Oannes, the deity of the sea, and sometimes with the goddess Isis in Egypt. The ancient Celts attributed the dolphin with well-worship and the healing powers of water, and the image of people riding dolphins is seen on some Celtic artefacts. Some Australian Aboriginal tribes claim to be direct descendants of dolphins, who are sometimes regarded as guardian spirits. The dolphin is also an important symbol in heraldry, the art of creating coats-of-arms, and represents diligence, salvation, charity and love.

                                                                  Whales too are seen as sacred in some cultures. Russian, Slavic and Arabian mythology claims that whales support the world, and in Chinese mythology a whale with the hands and feet of a man rules the ocean. The Chinese also connected the single spiral tusk of the Narwhal, an Arctic-dwelling whale, with the horn of the sacred Unicorn. Statues of the Buddha in Tibet are frequently accompanied by whales.

                                                                  The great black and white killer whale, or orca, actually the largest member of the dolphin family, is important for many native American cultures. The Tlingit, Nootka and Haida tribes in particular see the orca as one of the many animal ancestral spirits and is viewed as an embodiment of strength and speed. Orca motifs, as well as other whales, appear on many native American objects from clothes to shamanic drums, as well as items of South American origin. Like the river dolphins of the Amazon, however, native American mythology sometimes casts the orca as a dangerous being, who can take people to their realm under the sea and transform them into whales.

                                                                  Whales are also sources of fear and superstition for some cultures, and are frequently regarded as monsters in myth and legend. Many sightings of sea monsters can be attributed to whales whose sheer size terrified sailors of the old world. A large number of sailors believed in a number of demonic whales, such as the Red Whale, the Horse Whale and the Pig Whale, that sunk ships and ate everyone on board. To even utter the name of these whales was considered bad luck. In Japan however, whales were connected with the more benevolent sea serpents known as Shan, who would visit the coast to play in large numbers. Norse folklore told of whales with magical powers, and cast them as the mounts of evil witches and wizards.

                                                                  The symbolism of the whale in Christianity is ambivalent. The belly of the whale is often used to represent Hell, and the whale's jaws as Hell's gates and some Christians connect the terrifying biblical sea monster Leviathan with the whales. Yet the "big fish" that swallowed the sinner Jonah is usually interpreted as whale, therefore portraying the mighty sea mammal as God's ally. The Bible tells us that once Jonah had repented, he was vomited out by the whale - thus connecting the whale with rebirth and resurrection. Some ancient Islamic folktales also hold this legend true, and in fact Jonah's whale is one of only 10 animals allowed into Heaven.

                                                                  The whale features in another story from Christianity, telling of the voyages of the Irish monk St. Brandon. In one account, St. Brandon and his companions land on a strange island, where they settle and begin to cook food. But as the campfire burns, the island shudders and sinks. Having barely escaped, the sailors are told by St. Brandon that the island was actually a mighty whale name Jasconius, whom they had woken when they lit the fire. A very similar tale was told in Persia of the legendary sailor Sinbad, who also became stranded on the back of a whale having mistaken it for an island.

                                                                  Both whales and dolphins are regarded on a level equalling that of humans in Vietnam. If the body of dead whale or dolphin is washed ashore, its finder must mourn the death like a brother and bury the body. Mass graves filled with the skulls of whales and dolphins have been found in Vietnam by archaeologists. Ironically, this treatment was shared by early whalers in Japan, who on killing a pregnant whale would bury the foetus and give it a Buddhist name.
                                                                  • www.ancientspiral.com/dolphin1.htm

                                                                    The origins of Whales and Dolphins: Science and Myth

                                                                    Whales and dolphins inhabit all the oceans of the world, and a few species dwell in freshwater. Yet this has not always been the case.

                                                                    Millions of years ago, a cow-like creature resembling a wolf in appearance, walked on the land in the continents now known as Europe, Asia and North America. These animals were of the now extinct family of Mesonychidae, and as they competed for food on the land, some began to search the waters for food. Generation after generation passed, and the Mesonychidae began to adapt in their new environment. They lost their fur to become more streamlined, enabling them to swim more easily, leaving bare skin over a thick layer of blubber to provide insulation in cold water. Their entire body too was re-shaped to become streamlined; external ears vanished, front legs became flat pectoral fins (flippers) to provide steerage and the back legs were replaced by a muscular tail ending in broad flukes (tail-fins) which, when moved up and down, provided propulsion. To make breathing at the water's surface more efficient, their nostrils moved to the top of their heads and became blow-holes. Thus, from the land-dwelling family of Mesonychidae a new family was born: the family of whales and dolphins.

                                                                    Such is the origin of whales and dolphins according to science. However, many cultures have told different stories. Perhaps the most vivid account of the origin of dolphins is that of the ancient Greeks. Legend tells us that Dionysis, the god of wine and mirth, was once voyaging across the Mediterranean islands of Ikaria and Naxos disguised as a traveller. But the sailors had evil intentions, and unknowing the true identity of their passenger, planned to kidnap Dionysis and sell him as a slave. Once Dionysis discovered this plot, he used his divine powers to fill the boat with vines and the sound of pipes. He caused leopards and lions to appear and changed the oars of the boat into snakes. In order to escape this madness, the sailors leapt over board into the sea, where the ocean god Poseidon changed them into dolphins, forever destined to help sailors by guiding their boats.

                                                                    The native Inuit peoples of the Arctic, who have depended on hunting small numbers of sea mammals for generations, also attribute whales and dolphins with divine creation. Their legends tell of a young girl named Sedna, who refused to every marry a man and rejected all her lovers. She then fell in love with a dog and married him instead. Enraged, all of Sedna's rejected men took the girl aboard a boat and pushed her into the sea. Sedna grasped the edge of the boat in an effort to stop herself from falling into the freezing waters, but the cruel men chopped off all her fingers. Her severed fingers fell into the sea, and turned into the world's first whales, dolphins, seals and walruses. Sedna is now the reigning goddess of the sea, and if she becomes enraged, she will shut away all the sea-beasts so man is unable to hunt.
                                                                    Whatever their origins, there is something undeniably special and unique about whales and dolphins. Most people find the appeal of these animals hard to put into words. Some say it is the beautiful appearance of whales and dolphins that attracts them - their graceful bodies, effortless movement, almost human eyes and, in many species, a permanent "smile" as cryptic as the expression of the Mona Lisa. For others, it is the apparent intelligence of dolphins that is so appealing; many claim that you need only look into a dolphin's eyes to recognise the spark of intellect.
                                                            • woke up this morning and got myself a beer...
                                                              hope its not monday
                                                              you sure know how to stir the shit, professor
                                                              murphys is far better than the guiness sp?
                                                              i always used to educate people can you believe that?
                                                              on why those 2 so much better
                                                              nitrogen charged

                                                              manjo: wow
                                                              wish i had the patience; the only way to go=own
                                                              i still have yet to buy the sprouter: tough to get good organic seed
                                                              i think i asked lana about this...do not remember
                                                              ever made dandelion wine? stupid question, i'm sure you have
                                                              • gotta keep the sediments on the move. although the mesonychids was new to me, so cheers manjo for that lookup. it's a bit more complex than that but it'd be cool if more fossil records turn up to seal it.

                                                                murphys is a way smoother pint than guiness. unless, maybe you actually get it in Dublin where it's a lot tastier because of that, I never got to sample whether the murphys was any better there. Nitrogen vs Co2 is one theory. But so is magic leprechauns using it as bathwater makes it creamy.

                                                                I took a trip to gnossus a while back. Crete's a bit dry, I'm sure it was better in its heyday. Thing is though is it's kinda small overall. aside from all the dolphin stuff, its the minotaurs maze there. its really tiny. it would be difficult to get lost in there, let alone hide a giant angry manbull. such is myth and that. unless he's still in the middle.
                                                                • Yes, the Minoans had some amazing architecture... Also, the Phaistos Disc is from there... on display at the archaeological museum of Herakleion in Crete, Greece.

                                                                  N2O does make a smooth beer... I very rarely make a N20 brew... though I have the injectors for my steel brew keg... I personally just brew naturally and carbonate naturally...

                                                                  Ya Guiness is better in Dublin for sure... I only get the Extra Stout in a Glass Bottles here... but even that sucks... Never drink any beer in a can... They all suck... nasty...

                                                                  Some fun beer facts... Guiness is what is known as a Guaze, It has both fresh brewed beer and Lambic Beer that was brewed in open Oak Kegs... They have 1 room in their brewery for these... the rest is brewed in modern, closed steel vats...

                                                                  Lambic... if you don't know means that the beer was infected with a wild yeast... and has sour taste...
                                                                  Framboise (Fram-BWa) uses a Lambic and Raspberry Juice... It is French Belgium... Where the best beer comes from =p
                                                                  Trappist and Abby Ales...


                                                                  Lagunitas wins... Or Stone or Speak Easy...
                • Here are some references for that Bloodlines thing... Aside from Holy Blood, Holy Grail & Da Vinci Code...
                  Look into hampton court hospitol.
                  Ancestors of American Presidents by Gary Boyd Roberts
                  and the Burkes Peerage, which is the genealogy records kept by the British Royal family... and it was an editor that noticed the 'abnormal' number of connection between us presidents and royal blood lines....
                  Siriusly Look it up... You will be very surprised...