http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8?format=rss Tribe.net. Local Connections http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#33fe751a-6a85-49bc-b240-fe3bbf3ea933 I'm glad to hear someone's thinking of the next century. My guess is that the next 10,000 years is everything. Wed, 22 Jul 2009 04:05:32 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#33fe751a-6a85-49bc-b240-fe3bbf3ea933 Hoopes 2009-07-22T04:05:32Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e3e63e92-27fb-4798-90d4-4893349e8cf9 <Human evolution is 'speeding up' > the changes going on now, like climate change, industrial change which will have to match that, technological advances (and its going to advance now even more rapidly than the previous 50 years) global cultural changes, geo politcal changes, global economic growth like never before that challanges resource shortage and climate change, collective spirtual change, a new global culture for the first time (truely global as opposed to colonoies and empires) on the back of a new global information system. these kind of changes are taking decades. Pyshical Evolution works over generations, id suggest at least 100 generations for real change - thats like 3,000 years or something, OUR world and global civilization will be different beyond recognition in just 100 years. Pyshical evolution has taken a back seat now to the evoultion of mankinds cultures, technology, science, spirtuality and society. THAT is the next stage. Its not pyshical evoluition anymore - thats to crude, no, evolution has produced our mind, which produced our society, which is producing a new kind of evolution. All that lead upto this - 4 billion years of physical evolution since the single cell first evoloved, has lead upto this moment, the next 100 years is everything. Even hard nosed scientists like James Martin (proffesor at Oxford university and owner of the worlds leading IT consultancy, as well as founder of the James Martin Institute) are saying that. Mon, 20 Jul 2009 20:55:26 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e3e63e92-27fb-4798-90d4-4893349e8cf9 Elo 2009-07-20T20:55:26Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7eff993a-a300-4f36-96ec-a04256e8bc5f http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyN1O-GwALI Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:28:42 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7eff993a-a300-4f36-96ec-a04256e8bc5f orpheus 2009-07-17T23:28:42Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a678594a-4b2e-4105-8c7d-bf2489c42a44 This article was posted when it first appeared, but Wil's right about the trend. Human evolution is 'speeding up' http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7132794.stm Of course, evolution is a combination of both adaptation and extinction. What varieties of humans existed in the past who are not around today? What varieties present now will someday be extinct? I'd always thought the recognizable racial types portrayed as existing in the distant future in "Star Trek" and "Star Wars" productions were anachronistic, thinking that surely by the 27th century one would not be able to recognize categories like "black" and "white." I fantasized that genetic combinations like the one represented by Tiger Woods would became predominant. However, with increases in sheer numbers and absent some severe population bottleneck, it seems more and more likely that distinct physical types will persist for a long, long time. No telling what might happen to alter the faces of world population. If the ozone layer goes, maybe an increase in skin cancer will eventually make white people extinct (or at least drive them indoors and underground). Fri, 17 Jul 2009 23:13:43 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a678594a-4b2e-4105-8c7d-bf2489c42a44 Hoopes 2009-07-17T23:13:43Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8cb3cbb3-caa8-4770-9ccb-096ea26390c3 http://www.sign69.com/medialounge/space1049.html Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:12:52 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8cb3cbb3-caa8-4770-9ccb-096ea26390c3 orpheus 2009-07-17T21:12:52Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#23bd6023-a930-4bf2-bd62-6f30860684ab http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C5XuylNFLo Fri, 17 Jul 2009 19:24:29 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#23bd6023-a930-4bf2-bd62-6f30860684ab orpheus 2009-07-17T19:24:29Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#11ec4dfe-d260-4e12-ac35-84df7de2afe1 The swelling of human population is leading to exponential mutations and potential human evolution on account of the sheer numbers. Something we don't think about, but perhaps of later long term utility to Gaia and humanity. Hard to say. I think Gaia is using us, as much as the other way around. That is my longstanding hypothesis of wtf's happening anyway Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:40:35 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#11ec4dfe-d260-4e12-ac35-84df7de2afe1 wil 2009-07-17T15:40:35Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7107dde0-3b18-485b-954e-919751f12c95 it seems that it was a series of mere lucky leaps that the human race made it all the way to the 80's without the benefit of most of the major industrial population on some form or legal drugs. To that end what Dr's Jekyll and Mr Hide have done to the world to sell something so they can have a large number in a bank account some where is going to be a bitch of a burden to carry into 2012. I sure would like to hear what Darwin would make of us now. btw in a natural environment the body produces a virus to fight something that is turning the body toxic in order to return it to balance which is our god given right to be in, all the time, without fear. Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:50:28 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7107dde0-3b18-485b-954e-919751f12c95 Enlilson 2009-07-17T14:50:28Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#41154291-04d0-4ebc-83f6-fbf064a3ddfd Oh, and then there's this article from Science magazine as well. NOTE: I post this with the caveat that because the study and reportage' of science is poo-poo'ed by several readers here that the information contained forthwith is subject to unreasonable (and unreasoned) scrutiny along with a series of myopic, agenda driven objections. <begin> Pandemic Influenza: Straight From the Pig's Mouth: Swine Research With Swine Influenzas Jon Cohen If the novel H1N1 virus behaves like its ancestors, humans may have a rough road ahead, especially if it takes hold on hog farms. To borrow a line from the movie Babe about a precocious piglet, there was a time, not so long ago, when pig flu researchers were afforded little respect except by other pig researchers. Important swine influenza discoveries were relegated to Veterinary Microbiology and other specialty journals, while highly lethal avian influenza won all the headlines. But now, pig studies have taken on a new cachet because of the swine origins of the 2009 A(H1N1) strain that's causing the current pandemic—and the community's eerily prescient predictions that something like it was bound to make headway in humans. "If we don't have veterinarians working with good medical scientists here, we're in real doo-doo," says veterinarian and swine influenza expert Jürgen Richt of Kansas State University's College of Veterinary Medicine in Manhattan. Human influenza researchers, who mainly work with ferrets and mice as models, have turned up provocative findings about the new virus in a remarkably short time. Yet the veterinarians who do most of the flu studies with pigs, primarily to help pig farmers, are well placed to make a unique contribution. They know the closest relatives of the novel H1N1 virus intimately, and their studies are offering critical clues to its genetic origins as well as sobering insights about how it may evolve. Pigs have long been known to play a special role in the spread of influenza viruses among different species. Pigs' tracheal cells have receptors on the surface that welcome both avian and human strains. Human cells, in contrast, by and large shut out bird influenzas. (The H5N1 that causes deadly avian influenza has mostly infected chicken farmers who are exposed to huge doses of virus.) This makes the pig a potential mixing vessel for viruses from different species to combine genes—a process called reassortment—possibly creating dangerous new human strains. But pig viruses circulating in pigs have been something of a bore until recently: The "classical" swine influenza virus isolated in 1930 in the United States remained stable for decades. "You could bet your house on that guy," says virologist Richard Webby of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital in Memphis, Tennessee. Then in 1997, an H3N2 that was mostly human in origin emerged in North American pigs, and the next year, researchers found a human/avian/swine H3N2 mishmash—a triple reassortant—that quickly became the dominant virus in pigs. Triple reassortants have continued to evolve in pigs at a break-neck pace, mixing and matching genes with aplomb. "They're quite promiscuous," says veterinarian Amy Vincent, a leading swine flu researcher at the National Animal Disease Center in Ames, Iowa, part of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). Although the 2009 A(H1N1), also a triple reassortant, descends from this family of swine viruses, it is the first one that readily transmits the disease from human to human. No one yet knows why it has this property, but Vincent and others say close comparisons among the new variant and its older relatives may uncover the genetic properties that enable it to spread and thrive in humans. They wonder, too, whether the new virus will share its ancestor's penchant for reassortment, which has kept pig researchers scrambling to keep up with new strains. "It's been a very confusing picture for the last 12 years," says virologist Christopher Olsen, whose group at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, School of Veterinary Medicine was one of the first to isolate the pig triple reassortants. Vincent and her colleagues have discovered what they contend is an important factor driving the success of the triple reassortants in pigs. Influenza has eight genes: six code for internal proteins and two for the surface proteins hemagglutinin and neuraminidase (the "H" and "N" in H1N1). All of the triple reassortants that have established themselves in swine populations contain the same internal genes. Vincent's group calls this the triple reassortant internal gene (TRIG) cassette. "This TRIG cassette may be a very fit combination of influenza A genes that are able to pick and choose neuraminidase and hemagglutinin genes," says Kelly Lager, who works with Vincent. "If the TRIG cassette does in humans what it does in pigs, that's not a good thing." Lager, Vincent, and Webby signaled TRIG's dangerous potential for humans in a paper they published in the 26 December 2007 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The study focused on two highly similar H2N3 viruses isolated the year before from pigs on different commercial farms in Missouri that had no known connections. They found that the pigs had picked up both the H2 and the N3 from birds, possibly from pond water contaminated by infected waterfowl. The last H2 seen in humans caused a pandemic in 1957. "That was a wake-up call to us and our human health partners," says Vincent. "Many of us would not have immunity to H2N2 that circulated in the late '50s." The novel H1N1 now circulating in humans has a key difference from the triple reassortants in North American pigs: Two of its genes trace back to Eurasian swine. One codes for neuraminidase, which the TRIG routinely replaces. But the other codes for matrix, an internal protein. So the new virus, in effect, violates TRIG. "The Eurasian matrix is the wild card," says Vincent, who says it is a "good hunch" that it may shed light on the novel H1N1's spread among humans. Kansas State's Richt, who formerly worked with the USDA group, thinks the Eurasian neuraminidase is the wild card. Richt agrees that the TRIG cassette is important to the ascendancy of the triple reassortant viruses in pigs but says only three polymerase genes—not matrix or the two other internal genes—must remain the same. Mechanistically, neuraminidase also makes sense, he says, because it codes for a protein that controls how much virus a cell releases, or sheds. And more shedding means more virus is sprayed by a cough or dripped from a nose, increasing the chance of transmission. Richt is keeping an open mind; he's particularly interested in engineering the Eurasian matrix and neuraminidase genes into an unusual swine flu virus that infected 26 people who visited a pig barn at the Huron County Fair in Norwalk, Ohio, in August 2007. "The Ohio virus shed like crazy," notes Richt. The virus did not transmit among humans, but Vincent and colleagues warned about its potential in a paper published online in January in Veterinary Microbiology. "This report underscores the need for vigilance in examining influenza A viruses from swine (and other species) for human potential in addition to the major focus currently placed on avian influenza viruses," they wrote. Ultimately, Richt would like to conduct pig and monkey experiments with newly constructed Ohio–novel H1N1 hybrids to see how different gene combinations affect their replication and spread. Malik Peiris, a virologist at Hong Kong University who did key work with the H5N1 virus, cautions that several factors may account for the novel H1N1's success in humans. "The Eurasian matrix and neuraminidase are obvious suspects because these are new, but sometimes it's the constellation, the fitting together of things, rather than one thing," he says. Peiris's own lab has focused on another baffling riddle about the new virus: Where did it come from? To date, the novel H1N1 virus has surfaced in pigs at only two farms, one in Canada and, more recently, one in Argentina. Officials suspect that in each case a human transmitted the virus to the herds. Adding to the mystery, a detailed genetic study by Peiris and colleagues published online in Nature on 11 June shows that the closest known isolates to the novel strain circulated in pigs more than a decade ago, suggesting that the new virus lurked undetected in pigs for many years. Or maybe, as the Nature paper suggests, the virus hid in birds or some other species. "We've been a strong advocate for not blaming the pig without evidence," says Ian Brown, whose group at the Veterinary Laboratories Agency (VLA) in Surrey, U.K., was the first to report that experimentally infected pigs could transmit the new virus to other pigs. David Swayne, director of USDA's Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory in Athens, Georgia, says the evidence is leaning against birds as the missing link. His group recently tested the new virus in turkeys, chickens, ducks, and Japanese quail. Although some became infected, none transmitted the virus. Peiris and many other researchers suspect that the virus circulated in pigs and went unnoticed because of patchy surveillance. That said, Peiris, who has sampled pigs each month for several years in a Hong Kong slaughterhouse, doubts that the virus circulated near him. "If it happened in Hong Kong, we definitely would have picked it up," he says. Similarly, VLA's Brown and USDA's Vincent say it's unlikely that passive surveillance—which relies on farmers and vets reporting cases of sick pigs—in Europe and the United States would have missed the novel virus if it caused disease in commercial herds. "It's quite conceivable that the parent viruses were kicking around in pigs in Mexico and Central America, because there's no surveillance there," suggests Peiris. Researchers widely agree that countries everywhere need to step up surveillance for the virus in pigs. There's also growing interest in making a novel H1N1 vaccine for swine, says Richt, who has been contacted by several companies. But right now, no government has allocated money for increased surveillance, and there's no market to prevent a disease that so far has affected just two herds. Humans, of course, can spread the virus, and, in a bizarre twist, an increasing worry is that we will start routinely infecting pigs. Preliminary data from USDA suggest that pigs have limited immunity against the new strain, indicating that virus should spread easily among animals, as happened in Canada, Argentina, and the U.K. experiment. "The chances are high that this will eventually become pandemic in pigs," says Richt. And that, says Peiris, "opens another Pandora's box." If the novel H1N1 infects many pigs, it increases the likelihood of the virus mixing with an avian strain that humans have no immunity to, like the deadly H5N1. "I wouldn't put that high on the probability scale, but that is quite a scary scenario," says Peiris. Brown counters that both the 1918 and 1968 human pandemic viruses went into pigs without later returning to wreak havoc in humans. "We only have n = 2, and that's not a lot to go on, but they didn't evolve into something that came back in a more dangerous form," says Brown. "The biggest threat to public health now is people and the virus evolving in them." Then again, the University of Wisconsin's Olsen, who has studied a bevy of swine influenzas, has this advice about what these viruses might do: "Never say never. And never say always." Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:28:55 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#41154291-04d0-4ebc-83f6-fbf064a3ddfd Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-09T23:28:55Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#38897b61-bdf2-45ab-9a42-4c0c361aae9b Though not specific to Swine Flu this is on the periphery of the issue brought up here. From this week's Science magazine: Resignations Highlight Disagreement On Vaccines in Autism Group Erik Stokstad A prominent member of the science advisory board for Autism Speaks, the largest private funder of autism research, resigned last week citing his disagreement with efforts to study vaccines as a possible cause of autism. Eric London, a psychiatrist and chief science advisor for the New York State Autism Consortium, says that funding such research, in addition to being wasteful, unduly heightens parents' concerns about the safety of immunization. London's departure is a sign of growing frustration in the research community, says Alison Singer, a former high-ranking leader of Autism Speaks who resigned from the group in January. Figure 1 CREDIT: COURTESY OF AUTISM SPEAKS [Larger version of this image] Since its founding 4 years ago by former NBC executive Bob Wright and his wife, Autism Speaks has committed $128 million in research grants through 2014. The group has won widespread praise for raising awareness of autism spectrum disorders (ASD)—the odds of a child being diagnosed are 1:150—and for advocating federal support of autism research (Science, 5 January 2007, p. 27). But an increasing number of researchers and parents are concerned about the organization's position that vaccines may cause some cases of autism. Although numerous scientific studies have searched for a link, they have found none. Autism Speaks holds that vaccines or other environmental agents may cause ASD in a subset of medically or genetically predisposed individuals. "We believe that the question of whether immunization is associated with an increased risk for ASD is of extremely high priority," clinician-researcher Geraldine Dawson, the chief science officer at Autism Speaks, wrote in January to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That same month, Singer, then executive vice president of communications and awareness at Autism Speaks, resigned. She says Bob Wright wanted her to endorse a boost in federal research on the role of vaccines. "I felt very strongly that it sent the wrong signal," Singer says. "The science is saying it's time to move on." London says the same concerns prompted his resignation from Autism Speaks' Scientific Affairs Committee. "If Autism Speaks' misguided stance continues, there will be more deaths and potentially the loss of herd immunity which would result in serious outbreaks of otherwise preventable disease," he wrote. Dawson responds that Autism Speaks spends only about 2% of its $33 million research budget on research related to vaccines. Dawson rejects the argument that this research raises parents' concerns about vaccines. She claims it does the opposite: "We feel that by addressing questions parents are raising with ongoing rigorous research, that that serves to increase confidence" in the safety of vaccines. CREDIT: COURTESY OF ERIC LONDON [Larger version of this image] In April, Singer cofounded a new group called the Autism Science Foundation to fund research, in particular small pilot projects—but not on vaccines. Singer declines to say how much money the group has raised so far, but she vows to keep overhead low; the organization is currently working out of her basement. Thu, 09 Jul 2009 23:20:47 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#38897b61-bdf2-45ab-9a42-4c0c361aae9b Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-09T23:20:47Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bee3614c-7f15-43aa-b2ff-c649697ccf32 "Wisdom is Knowledge GAINED through Experience, APPLIED." But your arguments - your own words - suggests a shuffling of the equation. Several posts back you posited that knowledge is gained through experience - which is a very weak and somewhat intellectually shallow statement. Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:45:47 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bee3614c-7f15-43aa-b2ff-c649697ccf32 Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-08T03:45:47Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7d4cb002-0efd-4474-8670-5ca90a2b5ef8 "Allow for some creativity. " Indeed. But when certain aspects of creativity masquerade as experience, fact or truth I think that's where the ugly and unseemly edge superstition, pseudo-science and spiritual fanaticism rear their ugly and often collective heads. Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:41:01 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7d4cb002-0efd-4474-8670-5ca90a2b5ef8 Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-08T03:41:01Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#12b49198-58a4-4a73-82fe-62533f19bbb4 "You've NEVER seen a "conspiracy theory" proven real? C'mon. " Puma, would you mind providing a few instances. Just alluding to proofs makes for a shaky buttressing of an argument I think. Wed, 08 Jul 2009 03:33:16 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#12b49198-58a4-4a73-82fe-62533f19bbb4 Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-08T03:33:16Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#24ce6b9f-a903-418b-8a62-e20446e735f8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM_i29CJSEY Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:45:37 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#24ce6b9f-a903-418b-8a62-e20446e735f8 orpheus 2009-07-07T22:45:37Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8c99816f-8a96-4198-ba72-456ab0e44de8 I'm sure Leslie won't hesitate to point out the meat-related issues, but good hygiene can also prevent a brain worm pandemic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJCh7bR1Nf0 Cysticercosis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cysticercosis Tue, 07 Jul 2009 22:11:22 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8c99816f-8a96-4198-ba72-456ab0e44de8 Hoopes 2009-07-07T22:11:22Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d332b970-d159-4a8a-85dc-937da8e1dd26 http://sign69.com/medialounge/space2644.html Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:03:43 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d332b970-d159-4a8a-85dc-937da8e1dd26 orpheus 2009-07-07T21:03:43Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5f58d622-5ede-4181-95d9-81ebfa0517de http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8gkgHabvuA Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:51:37 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5f58d622-5ede-4181-95d9-81ebfa0517de orpheus 2009-07-07T20:51:37Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#222db442-bf39-4390-a4df-cd374ae5eaae time for some more andy williams easy listening I guess... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBemzu1Fchk Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:39:13 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#222db442-bf39-4390-a4df-cd374ae5eaae orpheus 2009-07-07T20:39:13Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#47a4882a-7c1b-48fc-8d32-2a1d1f9fd25e congrats on your full-blown demonic-wormy Possession there, Orf .... I know you've been praying loudly and openly for this for a long time, and now your masochist-wish-fulfillment will be a (bad) Dream-come-true.... the honeymoon is Sure to be a SCrreaam as you're transported into the halloween24/7 sub-universe next to the world-O'-spiders and the big pond-a-piranas ... but don't worry, you'll live forever, even if you realize a bit late that you've written a badly-scripted forever with no escape clauses heh-er-err-arrgh... Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:16:49 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#47a4882a-7c1b-48fc-8d32-2a1d1f9fd25e Leslie 2009-07-07T20:16:49Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d5ec6384-8148-45fb-901b-6a06791dd036 so back to the evil worms... so like you know when people ask you how far down the rabbit hole you are prepared to go... well if you keep going all the way down... then you drop into a writhing wriggling slimey mass and the realisation that the hole and the rabbit and you are all made of the same evil worms... Go ask Alice · I think she'll know... hahaha Tue, 07 Jul 2009 09:08:52 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d5ec6384-8148-45fb-901b-6a06791dd036 orpheus 2009-07-07T09:08:52Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8f6e3b98-084c-4a06-8d25-8a69b760af1b well you said you deal in personal experience... so that can kinda read like that's what you deal... which can kinda mean a bunch of complex stuff... http://www.dailymotion.com/relevance/search/purple+rain/video/x5rwjf_purple-rain_music Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:44:45 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8f6e3b98-084c-4a06-8d25-8a69b760af1b orpheus 2009-07-06T19:44:45Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#20aaf014-0839-4c06-98a3-b5063154b306 well all youtubes add to the conversation one way or another... for me youtube is language in the same way as body language or music or a joint or a bottle of vodka or whatever system of exchange is happening... the internet allows for youtube and google and wiki and doesn't allow for a bunch of other stuff... I don't think anybody on this tribe has ever closed down on anybody expressing their experiences but rather sometimes people don't express experiences except that somehow those experiences confer some kind of privilege which naturally can bring in some degree of resistance... but anyway... the adams youtube is kinda a rationalist middleground regarding shamanic visualisation/insight approaches etc... in my experience hoopes despite all the heckling he gets has as an archaeologist nearly always been more than open to this aspect of understanding the mystical and mythical but resists when he feels like the dragons are being used for dogmatic railroading etc... Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:27:26 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#20aaf014-0839-4c06-98a3-b5063154b306 orpheus 2009-07-06T19:27:26Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ac4d3ed5-cc35-46e7-af41-512a29acefdb well this is where communication starts... and although I generally find myself siding with hoopes' skepticism it doesn't mean I always agree with him or anybody else... it's a question of process... I really think a lot of people are too sensitive whilst not taking the trouble to read or discuss stuff... this is probably because most people are too busy with survival issues and tied up with tribal affiliations... and it's easier to recognise stylistic/tribal affinities than to take a deeper "independent" look at the issues etc... hoopes as an academic has never hidden from the fact of social privilege in academia and elsewhere and that doesn't mean the infrastructures and individuals are either corrupt and entirely without value or all knowing and beyond reproach etc... just because the mainstream holds a lot of corruption doesn't mean that alternative cultures are either validated as enlightened or particularly alternative... I'm never quite sure if I despise tv because it puts out evil garbage or if I am grateful for tv for preventing the maniac tribes from getting even crazier... the current models of education are based on the post industrial revolutions factory fodder and canon fodder model of social layering etc... more access to higher education and pot and acid and popstars is kinda the post ww2 reward for a major episode of bloodletting... so with a liberal education and less economic pressure it is beyond time for some rethinking and at the very least some integration of meditation and yoga techniques and vegetarian/diet/drug/ecology education from the very earliest socialising stages of kindergarden onwards etc... but nature isn't utopian... so maybe positive changes will happen and maybe they won't... imho there isn't anything sacred about geometry... it's just geometry... http://sign69.com/medialounge/space2620.html and when people get too into the notion of sacred it can have the ritual advantage of making stuff special or closing stuff down by being elitist and cramping expression by imposing dogma etc... everybody has to call it for themselves I guess... and my perspective is that of a total clueless loser... hahaha Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:04:55 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ac4d3ed5-cc35-46e7-af41-512a29acefdb orpheus 2009-07-06T19:04:55Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#1c8678f6-1e95-4955-bc46-6ab8bc6ec962 Now there's a youtube that adds to the conversation. I like what he had to say about feng shui and pretending to live with dragons. They do, in a sense, hold a certain reality. Once they are respected to hold space they become part of our experience. They become "real". I don't think I'll ever meet one with teeth and fire to bite me in half, but if I clutter my home, and my dragon can't relax, the teeth, fire, and swinging tail will effect my life. This may not be the best example in defence of the "wing nuts", but it does touch on the concept of creating our own reality. One of my personal issues with science; The Native Americans were more than happy to help the first settlers to understand their new world. They shared their history and knowledge. Once the pilgrims were on their feet and striving they turned on the Natives and went so far as to criminalize and erradicate them. Our ancient myths and fictions, which do hold some truth, gave birth to our scientific literacy. Now that science has gotten a little cocky it has turned on it's life giving myths. I seek intigration, not assymilation. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:02:57 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#1c8678f6-1e95-4955-bc46-6ab8bc6ec962 PUMA 2009-07-06T19:02:57Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#85ae7ac9-45b1-46cf-a217-e307bf9058d1 I love Prince. One Funky Mother. I don't stay away from feelings or emotions, that's impossible. I do not, however, allow my emotions to cause me to REACT to a given situation. I decide my actions by applying my knowledge or, preferebly, and growing, wisdom to the challenge at hand to, hopefully, be as present and aware of my experience as it happens so I retain the new knowledge I am receiving. Kinda like right now. I have enjoyed you, with a grain of salt, from the start awaiting a moment like this. As for the feelings of others about my journey, they hold a valid space, but I refuse to readily change my course because of a couple sticks or stones. I don't understand this question; well how do you deal personal experience? ...maybe missing a word? Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:41:23 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#85ae7ac9-45b1-46cf-a217-e307bf9058d1 PUMA 2009-07-06T18:41:23Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e1381815-70e3-439f-9b06-150ad2ed6259 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwtOm7lMmrc Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:31:42 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e1381815-70e3-439f-9b06-150ad2ed6259 orpheus 2009-07-06T18:31:42Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#14d4e776-2f37-4a2a-b12a-a520964dab3b If that is your take, why so one sided against it in the beginning? This is all I'm saying. Let's all hold some space for actual dialogue. I agree with Lana, and beyond Lana, that creating a healthy body is the first step, and would render vaccines obsolete. I also believe we are where we have come, and SOME vaccines at this time are, unfortunately, neccesary. I think where the "wing nuts" come in is when we question why there is no movement for better health, but an entire campaign launched on "pay ME to make you "well". Something just seems fishy to me. I guess what gets me, especially on this tribe, is when intelligent people, whom will readily admit that the world is fucked up, refuse to question some of the most, at least to me, obviously questionable HABITS OF BELIEF of our societies and of those who gain from our cultivated ignorance. I don't know if I grasp your worm theory, yet. In my, ahem, travels I've come across piles of wriggling worms, but a deeper "look" has shown ME they are made of interwoven bubbles of light and frequencies of color. Sacred Geometry is probably the only TRUTH I have completely accepted 'cuz it simply cannot be denied. Music is the only language that speaks explicitly in the tounge of Geometry. That's why, I believe, it's so hard to explain "truth" in words. Here's where I go Woo Woo. During a medicenal meditation, I sat with a council of 12 giant beings of light and color, downloading/uploading concepts beyond words. When I "asked" for a way to share with those whom I KNOW will not believe this "experience", they gave me these expanding/contracting, basically breathing, "toys" of geometric structure. When I opened my eyes on this world and placed my new "toy" over it, everything fit. Everything is "perfect". Even the fucked up shit. It's MY perspective. As you said, some people find oppurtunity in dead babies. Not me. I still don't know how the "toy" is meant to help me communicate my findings, but I will not allow the status quo to stop me from discovering a way. I'm no nut bag. I'm an artist. I love people, and I would love to see us all evolve juuuust a little before I go. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:31:05 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#14d4e776-2f37-4a2a-b12a-a520964dab3b PUMA 2009-07-06T18:31:05Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#1a3fe562-7a60-4941-807b-51cf038fe585 well how do you deal personal experience...? and how do you stay away from your FEELINGS of things...? and what are you avoiding with regards the feelings of others about your "journey"...? and is the purple thing something to do with prince...? Mon, 06 Jul 2009 18:03:20 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#1a3fe562-7a60-4941-807b-51cf038fe585 orpheus 2009-07-06T18:03:20Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#b02b7b6a-6ebf-454d-8b1b-7ce8e753795d Oh yeah. I do not wash my hands every time I go to the bathroom. ...I KEEP MY DICK CLEAN! Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:44:16 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#b02b7b6a-6ebf-454d-8b1b-7ce8e753795d PUMA 2009-07-06T17:44:16Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ce9ae610-cc57-4d2f-9a4b-bb3e1363d6de "The nonsense you wrote about vaccines can be truly harmful to people who mistake what you say for correct information." This goes both ways. When it is you who seems immoveable to accept the possibility of the other side, the "wing nuts" you condemn so easily will accept that yes some vaccines work, others may be dangerous. The bottom line is to use your own mind on this tour. There are far too many who hold all that comes from science and government as gospel. Is there NOWHERE in your experience that would tell you to be slightly leary of such things? Nothing gives you the odd inkling that "the next pandemic" might actually be designed by those who want to sell the drugs and keep us dependant upon them? You've NEVER seen a "conspiracy theory" proven real? C'mon. With your adament standpoint, and the way in which you constantly ARGUE, those who bring ideas to the field are instantly on defence. LAME. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:43:07 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ce9ae610-cc57-4d2f-9a4b-bb3e1363d6de PUMA 2009-07-06T17:43:07Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#be4308d0-d2b7-4aa8-9cba-03ee2887dd00 well the original post invites a debate on the issue of vaccination... personally I don't like the idea of vaccination... and I won't be the first in line to go for bird/pig/fish flu shots... but if everybody else does it then if I get invited I'll probably go along too... Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:33:42 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#be4308d0-d2b7-4aa8-9cba-03ee2887dd00 orpheus 2009-07-06T17:33:42Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#2ff537d3-c99e-4e36-aec8-c1f462c0d926 I think what a lot of people (most of us most of the time) seem to miss... is that we are often most conservative when we think we are being innovative... for example... your system of passing on experiential wisdom makes sense... kinda taste it and see... but at the same time that's kinda basic... on a more complex level it could end up in yes-men or dealer/pimp/gangster/murderer/war/bureaucrat scenarios because that stuff works too... so there are different ways of looking at the same stuff... and a lot of the time the stuff is exactly the same except with different uniforms etc... like a hippy juggler or a skinhead juggler they're still both juggling... but when it's compex it's easy to lose sight of that... and a lot of people use smokescreens... so... onto the evil worms... the evil worms addresses the TOE issue... what is everything and thus consciousness (and thus god) made of...? I say it's made of evil worms... others would say it's made of pretty girls and kittens and flowers... but I'd say that those things are made of evil worms and evil worms aren't made of them etc... Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:27:20 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#2ff537d3-c99e-4e36-aec8-c1f462c0d926 orpheus 2009-07-06T17:27:20Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#6fe308cc-81a3-4973-b812-696c2287b8c3 Bumper sticker "Every time i start bitching about general low intelligence i quickly do something stupid." I can totally relate to that! Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:16:21 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#6fe308cc-81a3-4973-b812-696c2287b8c3 PUMA 2009-07-06T17:16:21Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#03c62627-dc90-4212-afab-8d266964427f Do you have any insights into the validity of the Swine flu pandemic, as per the original post. Or is this petty, internet, snarkfest enough social interaction to satiate your daily allowance. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:14:10 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#03c62627-dc90-4212-afab-8d266964427f PUMA 2009-07-06T17:14:10Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9ad74d34-1f09-4bd4-a3f0-89edabdb6d63 ......just correcting my header here. Every time i start bitching about general low intelligence i quickly do something stupid. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:12:08 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9ad74d34-1f09-4bd4-a3f0-89edabdb6d63 wil 2009-07-06T17:12:08Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#b6f37cdb-d1b3-4f88-9d37-50900b6377d4 so you are reluctant to share your wisdom in case what...? in case anybody is actually paying attention and might think it's silly...? nobody seems to be buying into my wormish TOE but that doesn't invalidate it... Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:12:00 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#b6f37cdb-d1b3-4f88-9d37-50900b6377d4 orpheus 2009-07-06T17:12:00Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c908b74b-278c-417e-9ace-a2fcec466481 Those are matters of opinion. I deal in personal experience, and tend to stay away from my FEELINGS of things. Especially the feelings of others about my journey. ...like how "cool" purple is to my experience. In order to truly disagree, you have to actually listen. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:08:46 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c908b74b-278c-417e-9ace-a2fcec466481 PUMA 2009-07-06T17:08:46Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#43b882a9-b2d2-4528-a968-19c417c60008 "of course I don't have the benefit of your self proclaimed wisdom of what you all have transcended by having had it spoon fed for the last 2000 years... " This is a polarizing statement. I never proclaimed anything. And now I will play YOUR game by defending myself. Degraded. I have MY EXPERIENCE, and what I've accepted in my belief by APPLYING it. I keep what works and discard what does not. This is MY WISDOM. One of the keys to this existence THAT I HAVE FOUND is the willingness to share those findings to discover if there is worth to the Tribe or if I have found poison. If you refuse to taste of it, then none of us will ever know, and we remain stuck in evil worms. ...of which, I still have no clue as to what you are trying to share, as I've never EXPERIENCED your explanation or insight. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 17:02:50 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#43b882a9-b2d2-4528-a968-19c417c60008 PUMA 2009-07-06T17:02:50Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#92d5b97b-c950-40a1-b12a-07579b31e68f I think some people can't handle the disagreement thing... hahaha for example... somebody says "I'm really smart and my purple pants are way cool!"... then somebody else says "well aren't purple pants kinda like last year's fashion statement?"... then somebody says "you know nothing about cool!"... then somebody else says "well I guess you must be right because you're so smart but x wore purple pants last year and x isn't very cool"... then somebody says "you know nothing about cool!"... then somebody else says "and how come you think you're so smart - I mean like did you go to smart school or something?"... then somebody says "you're a worthless jerk - you don't even know me - in fact you know nothing about me - I'm god and I'm REALLY creative!"... and so it goes on... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps-TieYZykA Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:56:11 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#92d5b97b-c950-40a1-b12a-07579b31e68f orpheus 2009-07-06T16:56:11Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#3ad1fa7f-5814-423a-b080-8c032f8089cf There are cynics and skeptics in every tribe. I too, disagree with lots and lots of stuff, but in those other tribes, even the skeptics, myself included (even though many of you here lumped me in with the "crazies" after just 2 posts, argument "won") give respect to the insights shared and opt to discuss them rather than stick there fingers in their ears "nya, nya, nya" style. It's frustrating more than anger inducing. Everyone who might share something just gets turned off and goes elsewhere. Thus, the bullshit in the world "wins" over creative problem solving, let alone active brainstorming. "how about sharing a little of that wisdom... " The attempts have been made. You're black or white in your polarizing style of argument. You believe only that which fits your pre-determined, subjective, parameters. You degrade everything to wormdom before it leaves the ground. Makes it very hard to hold a conversation with you. ...and yes, youtube holds vast potantial, and is a culmination of todays technology and our collective phyches, but not the way you bring it to snark the insights in this tribe. This particular tribe is rife with passive bullys. I'll only play THIS particular game so long, as well. I like to believe I have something to bring to the table, and after what I've seen on this tribe, it won't be my loss. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:52:12 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#3ad1fa7f-5814-423a-b080-8c032f8089cf PUMA 2009-07-06T16:52:12Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5af04919-50f0-4aac-bacc-a7db6c433c7b I completely fail to understand how and why y'all piss each other off like you do. I mean i disagree with .....lots and lots of stuff, but it very seldom pisses me off. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:18:30 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5af04919-50f0-4aac-bacc-a7db6c433c7b wil 2009-07-06T16:18:30Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#afe97bcc-d786-4e6a-98f0-15eff4e6cf90 I kinda feel that the internet and youtube is currently the culmination of technology married to the creativity and baggage of the psyche... of course I don't have the benefit of your self proclaimed wisdom of what you all have transcended by having had it spoon fed for the last 2000 years... but it's not an even playing field and I make do with what I got... ;) so come on... how about sharing a little of that wisdom... Mon, 06 Jul 2009 16:12:09 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#afe97bcc-d786-4e6a-98f0-15eff4e6cf90 orpheus 2009-07-06T16:12:09Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#85641790-75b0-48f6-b862-898429874e10 Can you even see how "nuh, uuh! nuh, uuuh!" locks us all down? It's closed minded. It's just closed. We are forced to play your game because you've already chosen the outcome of the conversation. You'll NEVER allow a conversation to flow long enough for you to join in a dialogue. We are the idiots for humoring you. We're nuts. You're right. Case closed. You won't even give your own bullshit a rest LONG enough to gain some small insight that may show this to you. It's not even your bullshit. You seem to have pickep up everything spoonfed to us all for the last 2000 years. You're stuck in your own game. ...important to understand ...IT'S NOT YOUR BALL!! Wisdom is Knowledge GAINED through Experience, APPLIED. ...not youtube. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:50:34 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#85641790-75b0-48f6-b862-898429874e10 PUMA 2009-07-06T15:50:34Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4b0bf4ae-ae4f-45ec-9cd0-55513b68ee4b and where exactly should a head be positioned and in what company...? come on out with it...!!! lets have at some info and ideas... don't be shy... go for it...!!! come on come on... it doesn't need to be big... you can just start with a little idea... and then maybe eventually you can refine it a little and maybe find another one to match it up with... :) Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:46:57 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4b0bf4ae-ae4f-45ec-9cd0-55513b68ee4b orpheus 2009-07-06T15:46:57Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0328e91e-e51c-47d0-89f7-c4f262c9acb3 You're the ones who react with knee jerk panic at any ideas you haven't experience for yourself in some strange attempt at keeping everything status quo. Status quo sucks. Allow for some creativity. ...or just keep banging on everything with a hammer to make sure it's fucking there. Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:34:58 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0328e91e-e51c-47d0-89f7-c4f262c9acb3 PUMA 2009-07-06T15:34:58Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bea09a0b-ea61-4275-b03c-63543d8ee342 Priceless... How do you possibly consider yourself the authority on :valid information or ideas to exchange"? You've got your head in the dirt with the "WORMS"! Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:31:45 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bea09a0b-ea61-4275-b03c-63543d8ee342 PUMA 2009-07-06T15:31:45Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8b02a78f-a480-40ed-b13f-e269957153ed no thanks, as much as I'm sure you and many others are totally enthused about recycling, perhaps this form of That is only appropriate in life & death situations that absolutely call for it. Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:23:31 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8b02a78f-a480-40ed-b13f-e269957153ed Leslie 2009-07-04T04:23:31Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8cf2b905-ceb7-4b28-aacc-f77b2d8d722f maybe what you need leslie - to settle your nerves and bolster your immune system - is a nourishing cup of aqua vita... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK3LduV4-tg Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:42:22 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8cf2b905-ceb7-4b28-aacc-f77b2d8d722f orpheus 2009-07-03T18:42:22Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9228a003-e63b-4310-9ec8-f419ce74ebed indeed... there is the rich poor right side of the tracks social division of reptilian conspiracies etc... but even the rich and successful are made of evil worms... they just get the nicer ones... Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:39:34 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9228a003-e63b-4310-9ec8-f419ce74ebed orpheus 2009-07-03T18:39:34Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#64c941cc-bf59-459a-8ae7-c0c946eca553 Some people live in a world of tantric babes of good character , superior intelligence and generous nature on a noble mission. Some people live in world of worms made of evil worms forming absurd malevolent monsters. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:20:40 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#64c941cc-bf59-459a-8ae7-c0c946eca553 wil 2009-07-03T18:20:40Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#28878a40-8205-4997-b401-d6ec9537e953 well if the world were an utopian paradise made up of tantric babes of good character and generous nature on a noble mission... but it ain't... it's made of evil worms... forming absurd malevolent monsters... Fri, 03 Jul 2009 18:05:05 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#28878a40-8205-4997-b401-d6ec9537e953 orpheus 2009-07-03T18:05:05Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#f6a809fe-2874-4ff2-adf8-04ff81d86456 I wish being nice to each other would be a pandemic. I wish the golden rule would go viral. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:54:18 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#f6a809fe-2874-4ff2-adf8-04ff81d86456 wil 2009-07-03T16:54:18Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#32c65d70-b24d-410d-a488-d333e7dc5ebe the way out of one's weary patterns of self-defensive offensiveness is Certainly not through Cultivating IT, as if to "perfection", as IT is the Anti-thesis of such, to be celebrated only by the Spectator bloodSport Mind...... confound IT Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:31:51 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#32c65d70-b24d-410d-a488-d333e7dc5ebe Leslie 2009-07-03T16:31:51Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#80517fdc-d87b-45c1-a674-ec2a2e79cc37 I, for one have observed the place to be (the whole blogsphere in fact) rife with those keen on the Snit and short on the wit, ... and my successes in Not being a part of that often go Uncomprehended by the rabid snitty-snarkers, who seem bottomless in their witlessness and inability (or unwillingness) to recognize that mere snotmongery-snit is, at best, the most Shallow shadow of anything resembling true wit. Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:26:22 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#80517fdc-d87b-45c1-a674-ec2a2e79cc37 Leslie 2009-07-03T16:26:22Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a1fd3c63-f62a-4a42-bf3d-b76cb599933c but one hates to see a poor bitter-Britter chap be so self-deprecating, eh? Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:02:59 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a1fd3c63-f62a-4a42-bf3d-b76cb599933c Leslie 2009-07-03T16:02:59Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0ba2a12e-0436-42a0-adfa-cd5dd6a0ae76 Epic reply! Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:16:02 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0ba2a12e-0436-42a0-adfa-cd5dd6a0ae76 Badger 2009-07-03T09:16:02Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5944029c-409f-483c-8538-018f6b6ab4a8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfk5DpjawU0 Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:53:33 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5944029c-409f-483c-8538-018f6b6ab4a8 orpheus 2009-07-02T22:53:33Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#769cac56-639f-4cf3-a93e-5063e3fa5fc9 if there were any valid information or ideas to exchange this could happen quite naturally without reactive panic any time there is disagreement about the validity of information presented... what the "imaginative" contingency seems to be into is free rein to imagine that their propositions should be immune to disbelief without the vaccination of mockery... The reckoning of creative potential is all many of us want. Why are you so afraid of that? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:04:51 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#769cac56-639f-4cf3-a93e-5063e3fa5fc9 orpheus 2009-07-02T19:04:51Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c5c20c96-c6e7-432e-96af-2ded6f599f39 *yawn* Yet, another degraded "conversation". You REALLY can't SEE how saying, "Nuh-uuunh, nutbag." kills any attempt at OPEN MINDED discussion and sharing of insights. No matter how ludicrous a destination we find ourselves. This is how the world on a whole kills any attempt at change. You guys are really intelligent, but you can't seem to see this very simple equation. You drag EVERY dialouge into the dirt with personal attacks. How boring these very potential discussions become. It is the unwillingness to look into the "ridiculous" POTENTIAL of imagination and creativity that stymies the evolution of this world of rot, of which, your precious "evil worms" find solace. Put down the big stick and open the gate for while, or at least get out of the way for just a minute. The reckoning of creative potential is all many of us want. Why are you so afraid of that? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:47:11 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c5c20c96-c6e7-432e-96af-2ded6f599f39 PUMA 2009-07-02T18:47:11Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#079c00e1-1a44-4f95-aa06-1b00bb300a28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNBNqUdqm1E Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:57:03 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#079c00e1-1a44-4f95-aa06-1b00bb300a28 orpheus 2009-07-02T17:57:03Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#528f47de-16d8-4dd2-871c-f49d06df354b I'd possibly agree, but in no way identify with any intended or accidental association a turn-of-the-worm, however smallish it may be. ....and Anything which Departs from Orthodox-speak must be subjected to strict peer-review processes, of course. oh brother, where art the manpower..... (pfun intended) Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:14:45 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#528f47de-16d8-4dd2-871c-f49d06df354b Leslie 2009-07-02T17:14:45Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4b73b49d-ee6d-48f4-9d06-9a6cb58148d4 Could someone please pass me the MonitorClean(TM)? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:29:30 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4b73b49d-ee6d-48f4-9d06-9a6cb58148d4 Badger 2009-07-02T10:29:30Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d2c943b9-0d82-4d36-be5e-49d55b01ec0f http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9PiqCeLEmM Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:58:02 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d2c943b9-0d82-4d36-be5e-49d55b01ec0f orpheus 2009-07-02T08:58:02Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7bd8bf43-c74d-4497-b5d7-c38ece7ff5ac http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3jt5ibfRzw Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:42:23 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7bd8bf43-c74d-4497-b5d7-c38ece7ff5ac orpheus 2009-07-02T08:42:23Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#32d236a9-1e62-4713-9012-4c3528e4c73d http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpxQp3Hy5nk Thu, 02 Jul 2009 08:26:58 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#32d236a9-1e62-4713-9012-4c3528e4c73d orpheus 2009-07-02T08:26:58Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#cec9ed1f-cf86-4b47-bfd4-d570a9e66796 No more inspiring than someone who chooses to mask their intellectual cowardice behind a smoke screen of puffery and New Age verbiage. Please continue though as I am taking notes. Thu, 02 Jul 2009 06:28:12 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#cec9ed1f-cf86-4b47-bfd4-d570a9e66796 Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-02T06:28:12Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#1c5f5f54-d2b2-4be2-845a-3ed242e8cc6b Men are actually Capable of being as Graceful as women, ..... but we as men are constantly pushed into emotional numbness, "deadness' really except for the grosser emotions. If a man Displays his Feminine (intuition-based) qualities.... especially doing so Without any Hint of gender ambiguity ..... it can Really piss of the common man who can maybe see that capacity in himself, but So Deeply Buried under a lifetime of intentional-instituted emotional damage ............... Tragic, more tragic than I can easily describe, and for more reasons than the rational mind can begin to fathom Thu, 02 Jul 2009 05:01:30 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#1c5f5f54-d2b2-4be2-845a-3ed242e8cc6b Leslie 2009-07-02T05:01:30Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#95bd9b8a-ca66-4e63-9285-8d8ccbe9a0b8 Yeah, moment-to-moment you bet your life.......... and if your life is Stuck in a bad place you Don't want to really be........... you Better struggle with Everything you have to FIND a way Free, or there are those forces at work which will prey upon your inability to even see clearly through all the haze heaped upon every of us from early childhood On..... This is not a Casual game yet/unless you Are Able to free yourself, ......and to the degree that is/becomes Self-evident .... then, and only then is your existence actually finding a place to rest safely from the shuffling madness that Wags this World. But you knew that If you want these reminders to 'go away', simply punch the screen...... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:51:07 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#95bd9b8a-ca66-4e63-9285-8d8ccbe9a0b8 Leslie 2009-07-02T04:51:07Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ab2328ef-ca14-4c66-94c6-35f44cce6407 by the way, yeah I don't much know Anyone here except by intuition, which is a Discarded, atrophied, Scorned level of consciousness by many of the Champions who appear on this stage.... so taking things too Personally is to be avoided..... YET analysis of matters Beyond the Mundane Can Uncover everything from the dark source of Horrors to the Brilliant blazing compassionate heart....... UP for That? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:40:06 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ab2328ef-ca14-4c66-94c6-35f44cce6407 Leslie 2009-07-02T04:40:06Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d99756e3-94fb-45ba-8859-675deee02eb6 yes, and Once again the manifestation of The VERy Consciousness I"M being Accused of ...... which is a Ghost you can't really Define (except in terms of anger at being Shown IT), ..... just mostly a feeling in your Confusion..... and I, a Convenient scapegoat for FINgering Something Real. Hope you're not in disappointment over the delusion, because I am All About Getting RID of Delusions.... not bouncing them back and forth as perpetually is Tried to Play itself out in places like this....... Care to Bare your Soul, or is there something there worth Sharing in this Strange Place? Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:33:39 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d99756e3-94fb-45ba-8859-675deee02eb6 Leslie 2009-07-02T04:33:39Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7c2909c0-c0db-4cbb-b0f9-d46d8424a2f8 I wonder at what you men by "drivel" and "the Despair." I'm not a member of mainstream society, especially after living in Santa Cruz I learned much about the value of alternative sources and healing. So who the f**k are you to judge me with your haughty tone and supposedly higher level of knowledge? F**k that! You are the image of the society/culture that you supposedly reject! Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:19:09 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7c2909c0-c0db-4cbb-b0f9-d46d8424a2f8 Santa the Roué 2009-07-02T04:19:09Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#72f6a191-0a7d-4c72-adab-2b1fd7a76b5a Isn't it Inspiring & refreshing to encounter those who sincerely present their bright, mutually beneficent attitudes and open-inquiring, engaging, willing, able, & skillful mindedness ...... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 00:38:06 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#72f6a191-0a7d-4c72-adab-2b1fd7a76b5a Leslie 2009-07-02T00:38:06Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8b1a01a5-6075-423b-ab63-1c8751b31a36 "Your inability and/or unwillingness to discern my Very Coherently Expressed Insights..." Oh please, do go on. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:20:30 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8b1a01a5-6075-423b-ab63-1c8751b31a36 Badger 2009-07-01T20:20:30Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8e59236c-00b3-41b2-8c0d-0b2238c4b1a3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT91YhDBmK4 Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:42:20 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8e59236c-00b3-41b2-8c0d-0b2238c4b1a3 orpheus 2009-07-01T18:42:20Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#305ff8ee-7d2d-471c-9b74-5d9618f067f0 I have moved towns and countries and changed occupations to meet failure from different angles etc... I've even been open to new age quackeries... but in the end... the same laws apply... everything is made of evil worms... there is nothing else... if salad floats your boat then good for you... open a salad bar and be forever in your new age bliss... some are born to sweet delight some are born to a bag of shite... hahaha http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8gNPUzmjJY Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:05:29 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#305ff8ee-7d2d-471c-9b74-5d9618f067f0 orpheus 2009-07-01T18:05:29Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ccaf4736-c774-41bf-8bb4-a92203cce763 I'm quite sympathetic to the Despair, but THEN that sympathy gets Converted into the Energy to Take Myself Out-of-Service to That System.... ... and there's Worlds of Other Possibilities but most seem to Wither at any Hint of being Inconvenienced by the necessity for changing one's habituated modes. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:36:32 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ccaf4736-c774-41bf-8bb4-a92203cce763 Leslie 2009-07-01T17:36:32Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9c9fe9ca-8e12-4b0d-95e8-50bbb1c2fc37 this is the internet... if you have anything to say you are free to say it... there are a zillion quack forums that function as an extension of the nodal/tribal quackeries of the offline world... of course saying stuff doesn't mean it's going to get heard... but if you're fully explicitly coherent then you'll probably get your message across... and given your multidimensional powerbase... you should be able to raise a loon army in next to no time... whereas I fully expect to continue to worry and rot in anonymous poverty in a world that doesn't care etc... some people look at the recycling filth and see the flower that blooms from it... some people see the dismembered babies and see the work opportunites an arms factory offers... personally I just see the infinite hopeless (though occasionally seductive) corruption of evil worms... ;) Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:30:39 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9c9fe9ca-8e12-4b0d-95e8-50bbb1c2fc37 orpheus 2009-07-01T17:30:39Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#2edea4a6-a990-49ce-8d4d-916d6d3ca6a7 ...speak of the Drivel........ and it reflexively adds to the Obedience-to-the-System Vibe ......just as Trained Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:18:52 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#2edea4a6-a990-49ce-8d4d-916d6d3ca6a7 Leslie 2009-07-01T17:18:52Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7961ef7c-9ee6-4d63-94ce-e2f38763168e "why do you think it is cool to spout untruths as if they held validity...? " I don't, but YOU do this Over and Over Blatantly as if you imagine it is a Joke on the Unsophisticated .... and I have to say that Anyone who buys into your absurd presentations as more than a bad joke is, regrettably, beyond being just joke-worthy. The problem is, you've come to take Valid criticisms of how you conduct your business here, personally, .... and so you've made the Mistake of trying to Defend it all. You Really need to work up a Whole Different Shtick, because all you Got against me is a ploying of the Establishment camp Opinions against Anything not Orthodox Straight-jacketed (yeah only those who have Faced their own insanity can fully appreciate that The World as-it-is is the True Madness source). Your ongoing efforts here, are an Absolute waste of time & energy, and offer Way Too Much negativity, with not much meaningful positive balance, except a smattering here & there. But, like the mice who overbreed mindlessly into my ecosystem .... It Has to be effectively Dealt With, which is really the Only Reason I continue to acknowledge that you are speaking in my general direction, and doing so with blatant & useless absurdity. The joke is What you are standing up for, in defense of..... but it's a sickening joke Why "Should" anyone believe what I Say? Because I'm Fully Explicitly Coherent, and what I have to say is (by the common guardians of status quoness and Social Acceptibility) Only Vaguely, Blindly swung at InEffectually, battily in fact. What I have to say is not Merely my Opinion..... it is Solid Real and Life-Tested by Many Others (as well as me) who are ProActively Denied a Voice by the Corporate Consumer Climate of InSanitized-NormalRuption that Everyone Complains about, Yet most Keep mindlessly Feeding and Propagating. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:15:26 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7961ef7c-9ee6-4d63-94ce-e2f38763168e Leslie 2009-07-01T17:15:26Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ba1fee4d-d0ae-41f2-bddf-75fdac8ca959 Well, at least Leslie is using mostly standard orthography and sentence structure now instead of that odd idiosyncratic style he affected so long, even if his statements still don't make much sense.... Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:58:51 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ba1fee4d-d0ae-41f2-bddf-75fdac8ca959 Santa the Roué 2009-07-01T16:58:51Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#de311261-a680-4c09-a68b-1e2e1441930f "Nature's first law of Raw Vegan Diet" A "law" that humans apparently started breaking about 1.7 million years ago: Ancient origins of fire use http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_18_157/ai_62258571/ "The Attempt to Justify life feeding on Death is what is being presented as normal" I guess it depends on whether a person wants to more like a normal lion or jaguar or human (at least according to 2 million years of "normal" behavior) than a normal cow. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:49:34 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#de311261-a680-4c09-a68b-1e2e1441930f Hoopes 2009-07-01T16:49:34Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c1edfb75-523d-4a42-bc8a-47f6b257cd40 well the problem might be that nature doesn't do what you say it does... I think it's worthwhile trying to be veggie for ethical reasons but... citing nature as the justification of any enlightened system is kinda crazy... especially when the claims are generally both selective and false... why do you think it is cool to spout untruths as if they held validity...? you see the world and how it functions is totally in touch with reality... your pretence that it works in other ways than how it is actually working is asking people to buy into your beliefs and then you insult them when they don't... instead of putting forward your own life style choices as an option you insist on bogus pseudoscience validations... why should anybody believe what you say...? you can stick dead food in the garden and you'll see it writhe with lively worms soon enough... you like salad... big deal... do you actually have anything else to add to that or is that the sum of your multidimensional powers...? Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:48:36 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c1edfb75-523d-4a42-bc8a-47f6b257cd40 orpheus 2009-07-01T16:48:36Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#382b22ca-d0ad-42f7-b172-d3019064d3de "a complex denial built on incoherent claims of superior mystical insight..." Your inability and/or unwillingness to discern my Very Coherently Expressed Insights is you not seeing past you....and What You have to offer, by comparison, is a bunch of "evil worm" garbage that is TRULY Incoherent and vacant of much more than a lame, irrelevant parody of "insight", as if the very notion were foreign to you. Why do you persist in this theater of the absurd and morbid? WHAT is your purpose?... as it is NOT, by all appearances, to support the interests of life and well-Being. when Humanity is functioning in balance as with Nature's first law of Raw Vegan Diet, there is a basic impulse of plant life providing the means for animal life to flourish (what's laughable is that I have to state the obvious in a world Deeply out-of-touch with reality & how it Functions)........... and plant life is not necessarily destroyed in a mindful approach to eating.... The Attempt to Justify life feeding on Death is what is being presented as normal .... as eating animals requires killing , and cooking Kills Wholesale (in time and, qualitatively, in a short time) both the eater and the eaten. Consuming living plant materials does make an unbroken continuum of living essence from plant to animal. Simple, not complex or incoherent. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:26:00 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#382b22ca-d0ad-42f7-b172-d3019064d3de Leslie 2009-07-01T16:26:00Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#61da29ac-e4f1-4a5c-b180-e48bc25f3598 well what you are seeing is you isn't it...? a complex denial built on incoherent claims of superior mystical insight... and life feeds on life... isn't that the basic premise of RAW ideologies...? Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:05:57 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#61da29ac-e4f1-4a5c-b180-e48bc25f3598 orpheus 2009-07-01T15:05:57Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0ac5f27a-a649-4c29-a65b-26f8c29d831e what I'm seeing is a lot of the worst humanity has to offer being celebrated as art and critical thinking and science. what I see are the methods with which 'opposition is made' against the Best Hopes we have of collectively finding our way out of the grinding daily horrors that pass as Normalcy .... what I'm seeing are the Mentalities Behind All That showing up Here and Pronouncing all manner of Life to be "Passe' & ridiculous".... and all manner of the ordinary scheme of everyday WAR against Life to be the Powerful Essence Most Profound and Honorably to be Enforced. Insanity. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:35:33 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0ac5f27a-a649-4c29-a65b-26f8c29d831e Leslie 2009-07-01T14:35:33Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e82672df-4f66-4853-a616-01fa21a774fc well... as you say... you've been over the brink... so maybe you're not being accused of anything... just maybe you're seeing yourself reflected back from the void... and others are just observing the spectacle of your talking to the reflection... ;) Wed, 01 Jul 2009 06:44:11 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e82672df-4f66-4853-a616-01fa21a774fc orpheus 2009-07-01T06:44:11Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d3cc42df-ff6c-4968-862f-60c5c201fb85 .... and your Are Attempting to Do to me the very thing you accuse me of.... Ironic, isn't it? If I hold a relatively Enlightened space, I'm accused of being a fraud and Putting on Airs,.... If I Then Come Down to the level of those who accuse me of being Too High.... then Aha... not so enlightened..... blah blah blah I can BE Enlightened, and I can Also Function on the level of an absolute Demon. Deal with That. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 04:14:49 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d3cc42df-ff6c-4968-862f-60c5c201fb85 Leslie 2009-07-01T04:14:49Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e6a2eb89-c74b-4ca1-8d4c-05953cad166e Yeah! He's the master of name-calling and put-downs! How enlightened and "advanced" is that? Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:44:53 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e6a2eb89-c74b-4ca1-8d4c-05953cad166e Santa the Roué 2009-07-01T03:44:53Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ba00c836-b18d-4383-9bf3-996a145ead5f That's a whole wheel barrow full of assumptions for someone who continually casts himself in the light of all knowing. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:23:53 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ba00c836-b18d-4383-9bf3-996a145ead5f Tantric Muffinpussy 2009-07-01T03:23:53Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#cd44b2a8-a97c-40f2-8647-cba22148c372 ... you might say I've IMMUNIZED myself from ALL the Insane Mindgames that are Stirred up and Dressed up in Finery to shove a velvet fist in your deepest sensibilities. There's no F***ing way you can INFECT me with either The Popular Death Trips, or the esoteric, artistic Death Trips. Save it for the fools. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:04:04 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#cd44b2a8-a97c-40f2-8647-cba22148c372 Leslie 2009-07-01T03:04:04Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a0bce7ed-1251-4731-a869-998351ffba4e I've play the INSANITY game, the Dark Emptiness game, the Emotional Horrorshow game, .... all that not just to the edge of Madness, but well over the brink and into the Sink, so you got Nothin' on me Bub. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:57:39 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a0bce7ed-1251-4731-a869-998351ffba4e Leslie 2009-07-01T02:57:39Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5899a90f-55b4-439d-87ee-e6527947db5a Death trip. Your ignorant dance about what you IMAGINE you know about what I have, what I experience, what I Share with others (Love, Life, Bliss) is Sheer Conceit . You've Obviously made a Lot of Extremely Poor choices, ..... you don't cease to make such impoverished projective views by Continuing them with a grossly Egoic Flourish and Conclusionary Conclusiveness that life is All About Hopelessness and Death, Horrror, suffering, daarkness..... it's not Brave to pretend you are Facing Reality, it's ObNoxious. Your patterned Banter is well Understood.... You're on a Very Limited TRIP and you want us to shower you with sympathy and honor your dedication to facing your misery. Why not just give it up and give it a rest. It's Useless and a Pandering Ploy for Attention. Wed, 01 Jul 2009 02:51:57 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#5899a90f-55b4-439d-87ee-e6527947db5a Leslie 2009-07-01T02:51:57Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#3bb0c194-cac6-4dab-b10c-a977c2f7145a you position yourself perfectly as a parody of the mainstream you supposedly abhor... you detest the pompous offices of science yet dance joyfully brandishing the parodies of pseudoscience... some bugs in tap water and any passing charlatan reaffirms your faith... the multiverse is indeed your playground... you lucky child... but just as the horrors of society are dependent on artificial codes and constructs so is your escapist playscape... if it's working for you then that's good... people buy into all sorts of fashion and foolery to associate... the space ships won't show up but at least you met up with a few pals and had a nice hike and exchanged some stories of how energized your kundalini was after a shot of the blended bracken from the bio shop... but it's all made of lies and evil worms... you don't even exist... just an incidental gathering of wriggling... an infestation of evil worms layered upon infinite sheets of evil dead... but the beauty of the delusional fantasy world is that it can work out quite cheerfully whereas realism has to face the tragic abyss alone... staring at the futile mass of pain conjuring madness from the void to ease the despair of neither being or not being... doomed... ;) Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:16:33 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#3bb0c194-cac6-4dab-b10c-a977c2f7145a orpheus 2009-06-30T23:16:33Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ed9147bc-0233-480a-93ee-8259dba4eb75 cut & paste irrelevant information, as if it were relevant to what I have elocuted. Derivative, Imitative mindedness, where's the originality of thought that supposedly infuses what you present (as-if) real? If, then, not related to reality, why the pretense of appearing-presenting it as-if it were? Just amusing yourself and annoying the living until you surrender your essence of being body&soul to the ravenous worms of your mythology? I'm aware there Are those who Consciously Choose a sort of Death even of the aetheric self, rather than deal with an Ongoing Evolvement. of Being. Hungry Ghosts who seek gratification in the flesh with no Karmic sensibilities.... hence the Free-will insistence upon No Reincarnation ........ No soul....... YET a stark bare essence of being remains and returns in Rebirth.... even though there is this Willing-away of all karmic responsibility or continuity of consciousness. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:51:59 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ed9147bc-0233-480a-93ee-8259dba4eb75 Leslie 2009-06-30T22:51:59Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#40a8d563-46ef-4f3f-995b-4cd04d3aae57 well... there is lots of garbage out there... and you're kinda like into riding the more ludicrous examples of it... hahaha if you're a vegetarian that's kinda cool... but vegetarianism doesn't exclude idiocy... VI. The occult is the metaphysics of knuckleheads. The subalternity of mediums is no more accidental than the apocryphal nature and triviality of what is revealed. Since the early days of spiritism, the beyond has announced nothing more portentous than a greeting from a dead grandmother next to a prediction, that a journey is in the offing. The excuse that the spirit-world cannot communicate to feeble human reason any more than this latter is able to take in, is just as silly, the auxiliary hypothesis of the paranoid system: the lumen naturale [Latin: “natural light,” in the sense of everyday human reasoning] achieved greater things than the trip to the grandmother, and if the spirits do not wish to acknowledge this, then they are mannerless kobolds, with whom one had better break off all contact. The obtusely natural content of the supernatural message betrays its untruth. While it hunts outside for what is lost, what it runs into there is only its own nothingness. In order not to fall out of the grey prosaicness, in which they feel right at home as incorrigible realists, they adjust the meaning, on which they refresh themselves, into what is meaningless, before which they flee. The phoney magic is nothing other than the phoney existence, which the former illuminates. That is why it makes itself at home with what is down to earth. Facts, which differ from what is the case, only in that they are nothing of the sort, are worked up into the fourth dimension. Their qualitas occulta [Latin: hidden quality] is solely their non-being. They deliver the world-view of idiocy. Abruptly, drastically, the astrologists and spiritists issue a response to every question, which does not even solve the latter, but cancels any possible solution through crude suppositions. Their sublime realm, conceived as analogous to space, no more needs to be thought than chairs and flower-vases. It thereby reinforces conformism. Nothing pleases the existent more, than the position that existence, as such, is supposed to be meaning. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:29:46 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#40a8d563-46ef-4f3f-995b-4cd04d3aae57 orpheus 2009-06-30T22:29:46Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e9a3e404-fe9a-44cb-9464-700649290353 on much flimsier basis(es) are broadly-viable credibilities commonly built in the world of Power-based-on-edutained-credibility in the marketplace.... seriously, I only go along with about 89% of what he has to say............ ......but then most experts ring true at more like 5-15% The GARBAGE out there is Ponderous.... and I bring a breath of fresh air.... and it's like "what's that crap?" A sneering and spitting at the fragrance of fruit & flowers.......... and a salivating at the scent of blood...... Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:17:25 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e9a3e404-fe9a-44cb-9464-700649290353 Leslie 2009-06-30T22:17:25Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#91010a40-86cd-4bb1-bbfc-55627d421fd8 some of you "people" here SHIRK the actual debate-discussion of the Essential matters over & over, a bunch of Cowards. Afraid to delve into much of Anything New, you Stopped thinking Dynamically about the time you left school..... and established a mental map of prejudicial prejudged, Borrowed-from-your-educators set of VALUES akin to the American Dream of Not want to change from your Established and Media Supported Comfort Zones. I wouldn't mind all that so much if you'd take it Out-of My Face, as It is disgusting to contemplate profound vacuousness guised as active & robust (hahahahaha) intelligence. Might as well laugh as cry, and I'm sure there are others here who would agree. The Very sort of grinning (teeth-baring) close-minded Stupidity Responsible for Crippling our world is Palpable in the "stuff" that is typed up as Critical Thinking, Skepticism, and Supposed Engagement of the full Spectrum of Issues. It just goes on & on, and I keep envisioning that it will die mercifully, as it carries little life in it. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:09:03 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#91010a40-86cd-4bb1-bbfc-55627d421fd8 Leslie 2009-06-30T22:09:03Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#16a27c8d-2fab-482c-8221-a74965ea6573 well you know... sometimes the world vomits up the occasional dissident... and yeah they don't tend to thrive... but what can you do...? but I guess on this one... well if the kid's parents are doctors... well then the guy must be entirely credible... like not... hahaha Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:00:51 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#16a27c8d-2fab-482c-8221-a74965ea6573 orpheus 2009-06-30T22:00:51Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#6fce8ebd-d0df-40d0-aea5-db45ddb59d77 you knocked me over there Hoopes, with that brilliant comeback. That's all a feller need do (bag o' snappy comebacks)..... no sense developing an Eloquent Mind ... that's what it tells me you think ... although it's more of a habituation-towards Rationalization-in-convenient-premeasured-doses ...than it is dynamic thought. If it can fit a pattern of habitual pre-rationalized linear strung-together thought ...that the public, the man-on-the-street would buy, THAT's what you're Quick to Buy Into, and Hang-onto with ..... have to say (As in similar previous) a Death-Grip. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:55:08 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#6fce8ebd-d0df-40d0-aea5-db45ddb59d77 Leslie 2009-06-30T21:55:08Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bd4ff0dc-159d-42a9-ac59-f91cefc82df6 yeah, all that talk about electrons and free radicals is new age quackery talk, you figure? David Wolfe is the son of two MDs, and he's been researching this sort stuff for over 20 years.............so what would he possibly know about medicine, you think? No, you don't think or feel much but contempt, anger, resentment, cynicism, and flavors of that sort, from the Import of what you present & defend as reality. Why the Deadhead there bro? Why the Failure-to-thrive? Why the Loyalty to your alleged/perceived Universe-of-Evil? Why are you here contributing to a Death-Vibe? Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:48:55 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bd4ff0dc-159d-42a9-ac59-f91cefc82df6 Leslie 2009-06-30T21:48:55Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9630543a-f572-4794-90bc-11fe72bcde47 "By way of Contrast, I Possess Every Attribute of Critical Thinking that you Mistakenly Assume I don't...... and I'm Totally familiar with ALL of Ways of Thinking you present here............... so I'm Qualified to Criticize.... whereas you and your ILK are NOT similarly qualified, ....................." Yeah, right. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:40:52 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9630543a-f572-4794-90bc-11fe72bcde47 Hoopes 2009-06-30T21:40:52Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a027d867-0a1d-4bc7-97f5-c239798c4edf Tetanus was recently described to me by a pediatrician as one of the the most painful ways to die: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetanus Is your tetanus booster up to date? Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:39:37 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a027d867-0a1d-4bc7-97f5-c239798c4edf Hoopes 2009-06-30T21:39:37Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#346571d4-2385-407b-ac72-32ad2d3d35b4 Disclaimer - nutjobs selling quackery and most definitely not to be considered as having any grounding in any form of reality outside of new age bonding placebo therapies... The content found here is for disinformational alternative therapeutic moneygrubbing purposes only, and is in no way intended as medical advice, as a substitute for medical counseling, or as a treatment/cure for any disease or health condition and nor should it be construed as such. Always work with a qualified health professional before making any changes to your diet, prescription drug use, lifestyle, or exercise activities. This information is provided as-is, and the reader/viewer assumes all risks from the use, non-use, or misuse of this information. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:46:20 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#346571d4-2385-407b-ac72-32ad2d3d35b4 orpheus 2009-06-30T19:46:20Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#f29fdc3f-da01-48b3-9b3e-bdb528c7228b .........You know it definitely is a pandemic, by definition, whatever the origin. If there was any monkeying around with the flu gene pool, it was done by tamiflu not by makers of vaccine!!! That is massively where the money is and they have been experimenting with different strains. Not that i think they did it, but they are the ones with means and motive, NOT VACCINE MAKERS as there is really not much money in that at all for reasonable reasons i won't get into here unless asked. In the country, we see a lot more evidence of vaccines and their worth. I have a good buddy who bought a dozen or so calves last spring, up big enough you usually don't worry, but they up and died gruesomely in a couple of weeks because they had not had tetanus shots which they were supposed to. . Modern medicine has insulated us enough from this sort of horror that we have forgotten about it. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:16:53 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#f29fdc3f-da01-48b3-9b3e-bdb528c7228b wil 2009-06-30T19:16:53Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7509ceeb-a81b-41cd-a883-db668cc00de7 I Don't think you are Incapable of thinking correctly or knowing the truth, else I probably wouldn't Bother shaking your tree......... what is remarkable is the Hardened Unwillingness to even venture a toe there..... a Marked Polarization Against Dynamic Thought-Awarenesses that Precludes anything but visiting it in full protective gear and laser gun at-the-ready. By way of Contrast, I Possess Every Attribute of Critical Thinking that you Mistakenly Assume I don't...... and I'm Totally familiar with ALL of Ways of Thinking you present here............... so I'm Qualified to Criticize.... whereas you and your ILK are NOT similarly qualified, .....................rather you hold forth the superficial opinionations that your (Thuh) culture feeds you and tells you to follow. Prevention of even the Need for interventions like a Vaccine is the concept ..... you just don't get that huh? Here's a simple example of basic science .... preventative medicine involving no actual need for doctors or much in the way of exotic technology: Barefoot Technologies http://www.longevitynowprogram.com/news/barefoot-technology-exposed/ Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:49:10 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#7509ceeb-a81b-41cd-a883-db668cc00de7 Leslie 2009-06-30T18:49:10Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e1864392-4e2e-4585-aac7-27d6300a55e8 For the record, Badger did not attack you, Lana, he attacked your thinking. What he said was: "your understanding of the science is shite" That's not an ad hominem attack, which would be something along the lines of, "You're incapable of understanding the science" or even "you're shite." I didn't think that Badger was out of line. Leslie, however, frequently crosses the line with assertions that specific individuals (myself included) are incapable of thinking correctly or of knowing the "truth." I think most of what Leslie claims is totally off-the-wall, but that's different from considering him to be a worthless failure as a human being. (Which I don't.) It's important to consider ideas or assertions independently of the people who make them. It should be possible to attack your ideas as ones that are based on ignorance and gullibility without condemning you as a person. I think your motives are good ones. I just think (in agreement with Badger) that your knowledge and understanding are deeply flawed. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:36:33 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e1864392-4e2e-4585-aac7-27d6300a55e8 Hoopes 2009-06-30T17:36:33Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#263ee9ab-8d3e-4a48-a180-5be24e6a20af "Preventative health approaches are FAR MORE Effective than magic bullet medicines" Well, sure. What do you think vaccination is all about? Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:23:43 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#263ee9ab-8d3e-4a48-a180-5be24e6a20af Hoopes 2009-06-30T17:23:43Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0e8ca262-995e-4eb0-82e4-e6897d55d26c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6rTDmrdGp8 Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:22:29 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0e8ca262-995e-4eb0-82e4-e6897d55d26c orpheus 2009-06-30T17:22:29Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9eb41d9b-38e9-4057-bf98-d2e8cc45ea17 "Other wise you would have maybe asked him (yoruself) to speak alittle more respectfully to me." If you want respect, Lana, you'll need to do a better job of showing some yourself. Here's what you wrote to Badger: "I feel sorry for your adrenal glands and colon. How's your stomache been lately? Your intestines? Filled with alittle too much shite?" The nonsense you wrote about vaccines can be truly harmful to people who mistake what you say for correct information. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be respectful of or show kindness to that kind of behavior. When the next pandemic comes, those of us who want to help people will have to work even harder because of the disinformation that you spread. You know that I value critical thinking, so you should expect my moderation to be guided by that. I don't like ad hominem attacks, but information and ideas are all be subject to deep and intense scrutiny in this tribe. If you want to attack and critique "common knowledge" you should expect that your own "uncommon knowledge" will also be fair game. Anyway, I've been out-of-town and away from my computer for a couple of days. Anyone who expects hourly or even daily moderation on this tribe is bound to be disappointed. I won't be doing it. Given your odd ideas about biology and health, I'm curious about something: Do you wash your hands after you use the bathroom? Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:22:17 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#9eb41d9b-38e9-4057-bf98-d2e8cc45ea17 Hoopes 2009-06-30T17:22:17Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c8a8c99a-c80e-4718-a7dd-072ac48fe161 Lana, would you be my personal 'year 2012' substitute moderator, "in the de facto absence/negligence of" , as it were. It's like, we lay out the Whole complicated, multi-facetedness of an issue like this..... and it's a same old Reversion (by certain individuals) to a Fortified position of Official standing that FAILS Miserably, Pathetically to effectively Take Down the Stated Truths regarding all the Crap that is (nowadays) Routinely Added to Vaccines, even if there Do exist (or at one time did exist) some vaccines which may actually be free of such Significant Contaminations. Also there is the Fact that the Entire Approach of Vaccine Philosophy is NOT Universally Effective .... nor especially Effective AT ALL in probably the majority of pathogen syndromes.... as there are Huge numbers of Variables, including bioMorphings . Further, Preventative health approaches are FAR MORE Effective than magic bullet medicines.... and this is going on all the time without our even being aware of it..... yet science/medicine acts mostly Within an Oblivious attitude towards any Structural Preventative Measures (RAW Vegan FOODS & Barefoot Technologies being among the most significant) that are Proven (the truth is out there, and I'm as much an evidence nazi as anyone here, let me assure you) as THE WAY to Eliminate virtually all illness. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:54:38 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c8a8c99a-c80e-4718-a7dd-072ac48fe161 Leslie 2009-06-30T16:54:38Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ec1a26e9-b0cf-465b-a76c-7df9e9f31c5c Hoopes.... first off Badger was alittle off the hook, but you don't mind that because you and him share the *same* wave. Other wise you would have maybe asked him (yoruself) to speak alittle more respectfully to me. You are a very biased self centered Moderator with alot to learn about kindness. In fact.... you really shouldn't even be moderating this Tribe at all. I feel sorry for you.... and your health. Peace out* Tue, 30 Jun 2009 16:14:44 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ec1a26e9-b0cf-465b-a76c-7df9e9f31c5c Lana 2009-06-30T16:14:44Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#50f7f9b8-0fcf-42c8-b227-1cf48d43573a Badger wasn't ripping into Lana, but her bullshit, pseudoscientific ideas about vaccines. Hers are some of the most harmful ideas I have ever seen on this tribe, since they may actually persuade some nincompoops to avoid getting their kids (and themselves) vaccinated against some truly horrifying diseases, making it more likely that the rest of us (and those without access to vaccines) will get them. Read a description of smallpox and what it does to the body. Find a description of what it's like to die of tetanus. Talk to some folks who had kids during the polio epidemic. Lana's motives are good, but her persistent ignorance and chronic gullibility are likely to result in harm to herself and others. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:30:41 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#50f7f9b8-0fcf-42c8-b227-1cf48d43573a Hoopes 2009-06-30T13:30:41Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4a612bd6-914c-43e6-8911-5424535298cc but maybe I am underestimating the hidden potential of the new ager uberkinder mind by projecting my own pathetic oppressed feeble futile loserdom limitations...? perhaps some minds (like some gods and some girls) are BIGGER than others... maybe somebody really does have something to tell... or should one say CONFESS... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rigyymOrfxw Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:13:32 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4a612bd6-914c-43e6-8911-5424535298cc orpheus 2009-06-30T10:13:32Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d842f6a0-ea2d-451d-9ffa-7d5ce8ee57e6 oh yes indeed... here we go round the mulberry bush... by "cultivate minds" I guess you mean (like pretty much everyone else) reiterating jingoistic absurdities (fed through your clownish avatar by evil worms) about how (as an all powerful interdimensional god) it's perfectly natural that you can't actually do anything cool or articulate any coherent ideas beyond ludicrous smokescreens of belligerent buffoonery when anybody can't quite decipher the fairyspeak you transmit from the higher realms of spiritual privilege etc... I guess like every guru from the top to the bottom of the fractal evil vermicular pyramids - comprehension depends on understanding via a mind that isn't located in the torrid intellect of the head but rather a mutable organ likely to be located at the other end of the body and I guess for fairy folk that have the habit of talking out of another orifice than the oral it isn't surprising that comprehension might require the work of other organs than the brain... but ultimately it's just kinda weird that ronald macdonald turns out to be a raw freak from planet twinkle... hahaha Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:15:52 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d842f6a0-ea2d-451d-9ffa-7d5ce8ee57e6 orpheus 2009-06-30T09:15:52Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#26480707-d29f-486b-950a-21a1f5f368b0 If you Want to be(have as) an idiot, That's Your Problem, and, of course, you want to make it Mine, because that's the Sort of thing that is The Dynamic driving much of this world into Misery....... as Dylan wrote : While one who sings with his tongue on fire Gargles in the rat race choir Bent out of shape from society's pliers Cares not to come up any higher But rather get you down in the hole That he's in. Don't be That person who has nothing but cynicism for anyone who might be something more than a defeated loser. Of course, The One thing Worse (karmically, socially, energetically) than a defeated person is a Vampirish cultivator of demonic behaviors. If it's your intention to fit that description, it would be difficult to not find some justification for returning what is being 'put out'. In Other words, criticizing someone with a powerful mind as a way to glean energy, is infantile, dysfunctional, and Too common. Cultivate your Own mind, ....duh. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:38:20 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#26480707-d29f-486b-950a-21a1f5f368b0 Leslie 2009-06-30T03:38:20Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#df6da2d7-ce1c-44b8-a9eb-ee76a0ea5e7a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQY1sfCD6Y Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:36:56 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#df6da2d7-ce1c-44b8-a9eb-ee76a0ea5e7a orpheus 2009-06-30T00:36:56Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#404af3b8-dbba-4558-b66f-57f332742c11 a mind that surpasses thought itself and challenges the fundamental principles of idiocy by bravely going beyond the everyday twilight quantum zones where the average and ubiquitous loon would settle for beer and tits and football and santa and a daily asswipe horoscope news bulletin of the occasional popular genocide... all bow before the supermind... all hail to the uber consciousness... and the spherically coherent jazz funk technobeat chord twinges and cosmic hierarchic choir of angelic voices from planet pooplops spiritual paradigms etc... Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:30:21 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#404af3b8-dbba-4558-b66f-57f332742c11 orpheus 2009-06-30T00:30:21Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#95d6e06e-8295-4cbd-af79-cba38eba412a Having baroque, eclectic sensibilities is much like bringing Leo Kottke into a Honkey-tonk full of Conway Twitty Lovers......... curvaceous convolutions of awareness faced-up against straight line clog dancing formulogical prancings. Wants to dance step-by-step as taught in the academy ......... pisson Barishnikov Russkie fags who dressup gaylike. Yes.... it's not an Either-Or universe, and that comes as a surprise to thems whats not keen on the sharp, regardin'..... but thats as we been taught much upto now .... defer to the Big Brainy Concensus of Expert Advice as Laid down by Empowered Officials.......derrrrrr, how Dare I have a mind that might Surpass the Whole of All That (you gonna argue a Committee-Corporation-Institution can think more creatively & with greater integrities than Any individual?) Corporate Science-Government is a Huge Morass of individuals joined by their Need to Control & Be Controlled ........ and what Emerges from All That may not Necessarily be a Coherent Conspiracy..... just a Loose Complicity to "Use Whatever Means Necessary " to Achieve Control and Power over Others ....Outsiders ...... and so we get bad info, bad medicine, Insane programs, and (surprisingly) those who will Defend all that from an emotional level GUISED as the likes of Critical Thinking. Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:05:08 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#95d6e06e-8295-4cbd-af79-cba38eba412a Leslie 2009-06-30T00:05:08Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#3be61660-224f-4c78-8d59-6bd953b30c53 "That a vaccine can be carefully designed to knock out a specific condition such as polio or smallpox, (without a lot of side-effects that are worse) is a given,......." Jeez, I guess you're not completely off the synaptic grid after all. Frankly, I'm surprised to see you acknowledge this much. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:36:53 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#3be61660-224f-4c78-8d59-6bd953b30c53 Badger 2009-06-29T22:36:53Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ad9082ab-a923-47b3-820b-826f0a7cf372 yeah reality is a bit of a bummer isn't it... hahaha so you better book your ticket for a ride to a better class of asylum asap... a new age on a new earth filled with kinda dull people with bizaare dress sense... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPF-uPEtWM Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:21:33 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#ad9082ab-a923-47b3-820b-826f0a7cf372 orpheus 2009-06-29T22:21:33Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e4c210d4-b1ce-4fe3-903d-21334d615ef5 well yeah... that's all Your trip going nowhere I want to go, been there and got snootful enough no more curiousity or morbid digressions are being requested, if you please Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:14:42 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e4c210d4-b1ce-4fe3-903d-21334d615ef5 Leslie 2009-06-29T22:14:42Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bf53aab6-588e-471f-923b-9018333204bc well yeah... I guess it's a given... that berries and fruits are great places to get your daily intake of bug grubs and wriggly vermicular bio-organic newtrishunz... poo and various cadaverous sources can provide a plentiful daily recommended dose supply too... or you can just open a wound and grow your own... and be an autonomous blister to blender organism... Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:10:09 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bf53aab6-588e-471f-923b-9018333204bc orpheus 2009-06-29T22:10:09Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0c43e01a-14da-4841-b12a-bd9d6ba65411 it seems terms such as "new agerist pedanticities" are a altogether too concept-bound to take flight into the more subtle complexions of real possibilities........ but injecting poisons has a Predictable way of contributing to holding one Down into a subjugated condition of dependency and uni-dimensional capacities. That a vaccine can be carefully designed to knock out a specific condition such as polio or smallpox, (without a lot of side-effects that are worse) is a given,....... that 'vaccine-like' concoctions can be sloppily (sometimes intentionally) designed and formulated so that it is a virtual Certainty that there will be Detrimental Side-Effects.... is ALSO a Given..... a gift to be recognized for its HaZards, and Refused ! My spirit, my Essence takes flight with no need for any but the berries and fruits of bird & bat alike.... of worms & mosquit-o, there's no need-o.... Strictly for the birds, while soaring is not limited to wing-flappers alone. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:01:09 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0c43e01a-14da-4841-b12a-bd9d6ba65411 Leslie 2009-06-29T22:01:09Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#37646c00-9d79-4a0d-9986-c39c4e17531e but if you want to fly like a bird you gotta eat like one... or is that concept a bit too unscientific for new agerist pedanticities... ;) Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:34:07 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#37646c00-9d79-4a0d-9986-c39c4e17531e orpheus 2009-06-29T21:34:07Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#198c5112-76b5-4f65-b9e0-42284656750f I prefer no such cure for "what I got", which seems to function a lot better than "what I Had that was put upon me by the system". Spirulina is close enough in its micro-morphology to serve the purpose of a raw-longated w-ormes blender-prescription. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:27:48 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#198c5112-76b5-4f65-b9e0-42284656750f Leslie 2009-06-29T21:27:48Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c4423369-cf2d-4ca7-8387-fa7a2b1fed86 the only cure for what you've got is yet another lively plate full of evil worms... raw of course... perhaps blended into a smoothie...? Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:16:28 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#c4423369-cf2d-4ca7-8387-fa7a2b1fed86 orpheus 2009-06-29T21:16:28Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#71ed6ea3-6d38-4540-9542-14722f2bc298 the rule, perhaps, with exceptions...... I have a deepseated belief in things like science and evidences and criticallly attuned thinking, and I can&have employ(ed) those basic beliefs/principles Almost to the point of Absurdity...... Yet am Able to Suspend "all that" when its Considerable Limitations are Reached.... as is more often than not these days by my reckoning and experiences. If I'm gonna play the "Absurdity" game......... it won't be in its common guise of Anti-Absurdist Sentiment-of-Rationalist Culture-as-in-power. Self-Absurdism resultant from reflexive shrinking-away from any Hint of Surrealism..... with the consequence of anti-Intended Absurdity-of-position/condition-of-mind as one dutifully occupies the bastions of sanity, even as the very walls are crawling with metaphysical callingcard cartoons. Heck, I'd eat vaccinations for lunch if they were good for my health. Too bad fresh fruits and vegetables (and medicinal mushrooms) won't heal-support your immune system.......naww ...That would be Just TOO Easy if it were true........ People would Abandon their compromised forms of eating and Go For! the Living Raw Life Forces.......... but some folks just don't BeLive Life in the Garden of Life's own terms..... preferring their evidences dished-up Monsanto-Style with fried gizzards as immune support 'til their next govdoctor prescribed injection of miracle labchemistries & managed biohazardous "worst-it'll-do-is-killye" and none ovus giitin outalive, ...Harrrr~snarkie. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:01:07 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#71ed6ea3-6d38-4540-9542-14722f2bc298 Leslie 2009-06-29T21:01:07Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bf0b2308-e10c-4a28-8952-326f5b036625 I'm just recovering from pig flu... it's great... I highly recommend it... Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:24:12 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bf0b2308-e10c-4a28-8952-326f5b036625 orpheus 2009-06-29T20:24:12Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#163c03aa-c4c2-4fd6-b266-feec6e79102a I suppose it doesn't matter what is said here. If you don't already believe it, you don't hear it. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:14:18 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#163c03aa-c4c2-4fd6-b266-feec6e79102a PUMA 2009-06-29T20:14:18Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a066c92f-c0cc-4c6e-85fe-4c8d7a8f629c Did you intend to skewer the use of quotation marks and other expressionistic devices, as opposed to the overuse thereof.... which would be the province of (the overuse thereof) a chronic fixation of condition? Does this divert our attention from the progressions towards intelligent discourse? No doubt there are present those with insufficient attentiveness to follow much more than the scatological expressions that provide a Common illusion of Directness and immediate presence.......generally in the Absence of That Real Actuality. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:38:49 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#a066c92f-c0cc-4c6e-85fe-4c8d7a8f629c Leslie 2009-06-29T19:38:49Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0a684a03-c72c-4648-8616-082139dd12b1 Did you *say* something? Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:15:47 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0a684a03-c72c-4648-8616-082139dd12b1 Badger 2009-06-29T19:15:47Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#842697c6-1d3d-4bda-a1c3-d06cbdbc83a8 Lana, isn't it Great that we live in a tribe that has a moderator who deals with technicolor-turdword-technicians? Were I to similarly descend into the depths of Anal-Elocution, you can Bet I'D be Tossed Out on my Ear......... It Does appear Someone's ripe for Karmic Diaper Duty, and lord knows I've done my turn, what with the demonic-deworming-diarrhea incidents..... ... much Ado about whether to buy into the InJections-As-Health_FIX .....OrNot .... controversy. Have a little, or, Actually, AbSoLute ! FaiTh (holey gawd wee prayse thy Nayme) in sCiEnCe and SUBmit to the Superior Intelligences that Run the World WHO Prefer that you VolunTarily Submit yourself to be InJected with preVENTative Magic Health Potions that will PreVENT ILLness (vented directly into your very flesh)...... ACCording to PLANs!, and Exactly in the manner described in the Leaflets outlining the protocols. Pay no attention to those who Imagine the Wonders of Science Could Possibly be somehow IMPUre. Madame, do you Think we are Barbarians? Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:32:11 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#842697c6-1d3d-4bda-a1c3-d06cbdbc83a8 Leslie 2009-06-29T16:32:11Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bdbbe55a-13d3-4027-b4a5-6153b7421715 " THIS IS NOT A DRILL again folks this is NOT A DRILL. READ THE INJUNCTION THAT FOLLOWS in its full text. " Not sure about the adrenals gland but I will take a huge leap and suggest that a good number of folks here have irritated colons from continually having to read and re-read the continuous onslaught of disinformation being tossed around these parts. After a while the reading public gets cranky - especially with all the conspiratorial nut jobs trying to shove *their* old shit up *our* collective asses under the guise of 'truth' or 'authoritative information.' Back to the point. Show me the unbiased, peer reviewed links that buttress the position you so shamelessly champion under your (seemingly) all inclusive Tent of the Latest Conspiracy and we might have a more civil discussion. However, for the time being I'll just continue chuckling as you belly up to the trough of shit science and continue to gorge yourself a diet of devoid of any intellectual nutrition. Enjoy your dinner. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 07:09:15 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#bdbbe55a-13d3-4027-b4a5-6153b7421715 Badger 2009-06-29T07:09:15Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8ab93108-a0a4-4995-928c-3a34becc2829 awww.... Badger, tsk tsk... talk about shameful. Are you trying to effect me with your words? I feel sorry for your adrenal glands and colon. How's your stomache been lately? Your intestines? Filled with alittle too much shite? lol. How is Hoopes.... have you talked with him lately? Research it your self. How are vaccines made? Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:26:59 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#8ab93108-a0a4-4995-928c-3a34becc2829 Lana 2009-06-29T06:26:59Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4a28773e-2b37-4173-9984-59978108d779 "Umm......Think about it: " Um, your understanding of the science is shite. Pure, fucking pseudo-scientific, shit bag, 9th grade-bio, shite. You should be fucking ashamed of yourself Lana. Seriously. Show me a single, peer reviewed paper buttressing your position and you *might* have the makings of a cogent discussion. Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:37:50 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#4a28773e-2b37-4173-9984-59978108d779 Badger 2009-06-29T05:37:50Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#eea21d2d-984a-4327-ab16-d505ea92247d Umm...... Think about it: Pathogens (viruses and germs) WILL NOT, can not grow in a HEALTHY medium, as every scientist who works with creating vaccines know. So lets keep our body healthy! Instead of supporting the lazy "all american diet" of greasy, filthy, processed, factory farmed, pill popping, packaged for convienence foods, DOCTORS should be advocating TRUE HEALTH - Not vaccines and toxic pills in plastic bottles. www.youtube.com/watch - <<<<<< The Truth about Doctors ;-) Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:47:17 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#eea21d2d-984a-4327-ab16-d505ea92247d Lana 2009-06-28T22:47:17Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0e330701-56ad-4915-b37a-884dc0c6326d "How would a vaccine weaken your immune system? " Vaccines invade and destroy the cell wall especially harming T-Cells (which originate from the Thymas Gland) involved in the proper function of our Immune system. Vaccines are made from very toxic substances. You must know that? If you have ever done any research about how vaccines are made you would know that the "virus gathered" (to be adminsitered) has to be grown on a toxic medium, which then is inserted into the body of a human being. Like WTF? How outrageous is that? Toxic substances (adjuvants) are added to the vaccines, like mercury (thiomersol), phenol, aluminum, antibiotics, and other ingredients which promote the vaccine’s effectiveness which is very immune suppressing. These toxins are then injected into a person (mainly children) in order to increase their antibodies against that disease (which may or may not ever happen) and produce immunity. HELLOOOOOO? That is outright silly. Scientists have a limited understanding of what immunity is (because the Medical Association is so controlled by large corporate lobby groups whose vested interested lie in making money off the sick). To maintain a healthy immune system (thus a healthy dis-ease free life) Nutrition plays a key and central role in the process, but the AMA tends to ignore nutrition (herbs/vitamins/amino acids/foods free from poison in it's raw natural state) in favor of making billions of injections and issuing pharmeceuticals to the sick and dying. When are we going to wake up to this madness and stop selling ourselves short just for luxery, fame and money? Wake up and smell the roses ~ literally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e2ljD3hkhg&feature=related <<<<< Contaminated Vaccines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBVcrk1zLK4 <<<<<<< Robert F Kennedy speaks about the hazards of Vaccines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kskFjm1pKEs <<<<<<< A creative vid that explains how the Immune system works http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyaVxYYVfQE <<<<<<< The dangers of Vaccines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luaM1IFghM4&feature=channel <<<<<<< These two guys talks about who funds Universites and Colleges which support these chemicals and absurd medical practices touting them as safe. Sun, 28 Jun 2009 22:36:38 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#0e330701-56ad-4915-b37a-884dc0c6326d Lana 2009-06-28T22:36:38Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d8fe348a-4285-4922-9529-82425e93c09e I googled "jane burgemaster" and though it was misspelled, found a youtube video that is even more DISTURBING. Is there no end to the stupidity? no. no end to the stupidity. Thinking is hard. Emoting is such fun. Movies, reality what's the difference? It's fun to be dumb. Why its another goddamned no brainer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHtPzHAUn-E Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:11:11 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#d8fe348a-4285-4922-9529-82425e93c09e wil 2009-06-28T09:11:11Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e09d4964-e3b0-4c97-aba7-fb0b74d24ece Umm. How would a vaccine weaken your immune system? Sun, 28 Jun 2009 05:39:41 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e09d4964-e3b0-4c97-aba7-fb0b74d24ece Hoopes 2009-06-28T05:39:41Z http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e54d63da-9207-4e6e-84f7-c85596b60e65 I found this alarming: http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html The creation and spread of the H1N1 /swine flu (and the media's hype) is way to fishy to be real. I don't by it. When they have run out of terrorists in the mideast to scare us, they turn to another false threat to manipulate the public surrendering another constitutional right. The WHO is proposing MANDATORY vaccinations for the US against a pseudo threat, one that, once again, may have been purposely created. Who profits from this "attack"? The multi-national drug companies making the vaccine. Who may have created the swine flu in laboratory? The multi-national drug companies. What is really in the unproven vaccine? ? Don't Believe the lies! Keep your immune system strong. Say no to vaccines! Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:21:16 GMT http://2012.tribe.net/thread/d70e05a1-439b-40e1-9162-7e3d0d54a9f8#e54d63da-9207-4e6e-84f7-c85596b60e65 Abhaya 2009-06-27T23:21:16Z