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www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/...08bf.jpg
I'll let you be the judge.
All I can say is this crop circle is very straight forward.
I'll let you be the judge.
All I can say is this crop circle is very straight forward.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 9:28 PMI don't believe in crop circle hoaxes.
All crop circles are real.
Real performance art, that is.
This is the first one I've seen that integrates the double tram-lines (which give access to the spaces) into the the design. Someone must have screwed up, mashing down the grain in between the double line, and then tried to finesse it. Uh oh. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:52 AMIf I were them I would check in the center to see if there is a hole for a stake or where someone was standing perhaps holding different lengths of rope to make the perfect circles. Other than that as a former Machinist who was used to working with precision instruments it is near impossible for someone walking around in crops to make perfect circles such as this with out some sort of reference point. Even machines need a reference point. I delt with tolerance of +/- .005" nd even then making a circle was one of those things that required a great deal of understanding. When cutting a circle your x and y axis is constantly changing. The only other option that I can think of would be a satellite that is making these circles but then that would be done at a higher level with clearance to use the satellite in that way. So my personal opinion is they are real or they are a government black project.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:26 AMI find that some crop circles to be outright hoaxes and you can tell in the design and I wish they would tell which ones conform to the "non-broken" bends of which you can't copy and the ones where the stalks are broken from a person making them... Also the ones where the stems aren't broken there is usually magnetic anomalies and usually or things that are hard to copy and make no sense in doing on a hoax basis. Even the crops seeds are genetically changed in some crop circles... -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:29 AMbesides which some are very large and appear in a short period of time with no witnesses..
they are all 'real'.. some are created by people in a mechanical way, most are not (as I understand them). -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:52 AMThis is another of those topics--like what really happened on 9/11--where there have been long and useless threads with people divided one way or another and never changing their minds or the minds of others.
That being said, all that i have seen and read over the past 20 years makes me agree with Hoopes. Most new age folks don't know how they are created by humans because they lack the technical knowledge that IT and other techies have developed for creating increasingly complex designs over that period of time. It's NOT done just with boards and ropes. And the farmers whose places they appear on are in on it for what should be obvious reasons..... -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:12 AMI have plenty of technical know how. The question is what evidence is there to support these circles are made by humans. So lets look at a few variables then. A) Time to make the Circle. B) Reference Points for accuracy. C) Witnesses D) Effects on the Plants E) Complexity
How many people would it take to make one circle in a night? and on top of that what is the percentage of human error to be expected. Obviously the more people you add the more chance of human error.
There has to be reference points for making the circles to ensure accuracy, otherwise the chance of human error increases exponentially.
How many witnesses saw the circle being made?
Were the plants damaged in any way physically or chemically?
What is the complexity of the design as this also contributes to the chance of human error.
IT people wouldn't be able to do this. Most likely they are home playing WoW on there computer.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 11:45 AMThis book offers a nice history of crop circle artwork and explains exactly how to create complex designs with relatively simple tools and methods in a short amount of time:
The Field Guide: The Art, History and Philosophy of Crop Circle Making, by Rob Irving, John Lundberg and Mark Pilkington
www.strangeattractor.co.uk/fieldguide
There are few tips and tricks, such as the fact that laser pointers and kite string can be used to insure high levels of accuracy in direction and distance.
"Obviously the more people you add the more chance of human error."
That's true. Complex designs can be made by just two or three people in the space of a few hours.
The only way some people will believe it is through direct experience. The season's over now in the northern hemisphere, but you can play around with a straightedge and compass and get some cool designs to try out in the spring.
For someone who doesn't have a clue how to play a guitar--or any familiarity with the instrument--it's baffling how all that sound can be made by one person using only fingers and strings.
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 5:59 PMJust because they are made by humans does not make them symbolically and certainly not artistically insignificant. Where do the artists and technicians get their inspiration? I think largely it is from the wellsprings flowing from our collective unconscious. Perhaps aliens inspired them to act on this crazy notion that popped into their head when they were hanging around the pub near the university. How do we know these "aliens" aren't really ourcellves in projected form after all. Perhaps it is our future coming back to save us. I'm not saying any of this is true, but it is a lot more in keeping with the way i personally look at things. If we are being tricked into getting our act more together by an imaginary galactic evolutionary system that insists on it, then i say good! All this said.....crop circles and aliens neither one have ever interested me much. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 8:15 PMWhat compels people to make art? That it happens is a constant source of awe and wonder for me.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:59 PM>>>Most new age folks don't know how they are created by humans because they lack the technical knowledge that IT<<<<<<
This is One "New Age" Folk that is Extremely Technically skilled, and Anyone who Imagines more than a relatively small percentage of crop circles are made by the direct hand-foot of man, has no business representing themselves as "rational". For all my "irrationalities", I'm Far Too Rational to even Force myself to IGnore the Solid, Irrefutable (somehow they seem to want to pretend it Is refutable) information-evidences that Demonstrate the sheer Impossibility of the Very IDEA that Many (a Larger percentage) of these crop circles ....... are a hoax.................... as they Cannot have been produced by physically pushing the crops over.
Pretending it's possible to create crop circles in minutes, without physically being seen by present-at-the-time eyewitnesses, and by inexplicably altering the Physiology of the plant cells at the bending places ............................. can Divert popular opinion from "coming-to-terms with the amazing Truth" .... and those who Participate in this (wittingly, or Unwittingly) .... are Living a Hoax, relative to the not-yet-fully-understood scope-of-truth....... a Clear comprehension of the parameters of which left Behind (practically from the getgo) the very Idea that more than a small percentage of crop circles are made by "ordinary means by earth humans".
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:55 AMAfter seeing this crop circle I have been monitoring the SOHO website for updated images of the sun. Trying to see what kind of activity the sun is showing presently. There has been more sun spots lately. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:21 AM<<The question is what evidence is there to support these circles are made by humans. So lets look at a few variables then. A) Time to make the Circle. B) Reference Points for accuracy. C) Witnesses D) Effects on the Plants E) Complexity >.
Lots!
But, like 9/1 "discussions," .it's not even worth dealing with those--largely rhetorical--"questions" or "issues." There have been long threads here and elsewhere that have shown nobody wants to see anything but what they already believe. Let those who have eyes to see.... -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 11:48 AMBoth 911 hoax issues and crop circle hoax issues can be taken beyond the "rhetorical" if the will is there to perform formal investigations. In both instances, there would be some very startling surprises as to motivation and organization. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:43 PMAs with Stonehenge, Easter Island, the Nasca Lines, etc., etc., the big question is not so much "how" but "why?"
In the case of crop circles, the answer is the same as the answer to the question: "Why is there art?"
For those who haven't ready it, this is a marvelous essay about crop circles:
Art and Artifice, by Rob Irving
www.circlemakers.org/art_and...ice.html -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 2:11 PMI doubt that many of the hoaxers even understand the wider set of relationships in which their artifice exists and why their trick is valuable at this time. Reports of malfunctioning electronics within formations are not apocryphal. Sigils on the scale of crop circles have real effects in the real physical world. It is the potential contrast between crop laid down and not that initates energetic anomalies. Crop circles create a set of "boundaries," and that is where the action is.
The lesson learned by crop circles will not be the lesson anticipated by most of their makers. That lesson is that the physical environment - its shape and its elemental composition - has a much larger effect on biology and psychology than is generally accepted these days. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 2:19 PMThey can't be called "hoaxers" if there's no real phenomenon to hoax. It's the audience, not the artists, that misidentifies the art as extraterrestrial or supernatural.
I'm confident the artists understand all this BS. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:43 PMThe early circle were mum about their actions, so one can infer that they were not interested in telling anyone anything about the formations. To the extent that they allowed any and every rumor to drift about and not spill the beans about themselves, they could be called "hoaxers."
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:37 PMThe first two most notorious hoaxers kept mum for years about their activities while the world looked on and mused variously. These two guys allowed this to go on for years before revealing who they were and what they had done. They "hoaxed" in the sense that they hid their involvement.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 3:53 PM
I still do not see them making these crop circles with lasers or kite string without leaving evidence of them doing so. My guess is that they wrote a book to make money off the crop circle phenomenon because no one could prove it true or false. Of course crop circles would be seasonal because crops only grow in the warm season and then after they are harvested nothing remains. I actually would like to even put forth a challenge to see if these are done by people or by aliens and that would be to make the same crop circle with exact same dimensions all over the world on the same day. If this happened I would not doubt it one bit.
How about that Hoopes? Lets put forth a challenge and see what happens. It doesn't have to be directed toward aliens of Humans just a general challenge to see what will happen. Same glyph all over the world on the same day with the same dimensions and it has to be complex. No date will be set for it so it would have to be planned by whom ever does it. I think this would be a great way to see what this phenomenon is all about. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 5:52 PMI remember the toy "spiragraph" that I had as a kid, I think a lot of the designs are a mark up of this in one ability of geometry... It's when I started seeing the insects and humming bird and such that I kind of lost interest... In the designs, I find them highly artistic no matter where they come from...
It's the simple crop circles that are a plain geometric desing that have the seeds altered genetically that make me wonder about some of them but I'm guessing that some university students could come up with something that could account for that but it still seems out there and I do like crop circles no matter where they come from... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:35 PMHonestly, Celestine, when i see the r]tribes you are in I understand your perspective....
BTW, did you take your online name from the monastic order or the questionable novel by James Redfield in 1993? When friends and I visited Machu Picchu a year later we realized that he had never gone there because we saw that his details about the place are as bogus as his big money newage book was! -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:45 PMThere are simple circular formations observed here and there that do not show stomper board striations, but are instead one continuous spiral within. They could conceivably be saucer landing traces. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 8:12 PMNot for me. The real saucers don't have that kind of landing gear. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 8:24 PMI gotta ask....What kind of landing gear do they have Hoopes?
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:14 PMThe circles show no "gear" marks. They appear to be the trace of a circular spinning object coming to rest on foliage like a spinning frisbee landing on grass, or they could be a purely energetic signature of a craft hovering above and being suspended by a spiralling energy field.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 3:32 AM"..The real saucers don't have that kind of landing gear."
we don't need landing gear
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:08 PMNever judge a book by its cover. I took the name Celestine way back as an indicator of my own understanding that myself, like everyone else, is part of the whole. Latin. Meaning from Heaven. Interpret that which ever way you wish. If you wanna know my story its Zazen, that's my path. Not sure if the cards say it but that's how I am. One endless moment at a time, .....like we do.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:17 PMI'm sorry that you can't appreciate my uniqueness -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:19 PM<<I'm sorry that you can't appreciate my uniqueness>>
So give us a reason why we should! -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:37 AMUniqueness is universal
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:34 PMOf course, on Pringle's site there is also an article about Apache helicopters and formations that is intriguing.
www.lucypringle.co.uk/articles/apache/
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:18 PMFor many years I knew a researcher into this type of unexplainable phenomena and unfortunately, those who wish to condemn it will continue to do so and produce debunker after debunker to back them up. One case I remember happened a few years ago now in a very public place and was video taped from the air.
It was on a paddock across the highway from Stonehenge one summer. A pilot who flew tourists over the site returned to his airport ten minutes flight away and refueled before taking his next group out. When he arrived at Stonehenge a very elaborate scorpion design was displayed in the field across the road. About the same size as the one shown on this thread. None or the tourist operators saw a thing until people arrived to have a look. The thing a lot of people are missing is the real time involved with people being able to do this and have it complete and ready for observation from the air in half an hour. God! It'd take me at least three hours to set up!
The first thing researchers look for in a crop circle is access by foot. The second thing they look for is a hole in the middle of the circle and the third is the bend points of the grasses to check how they happened.
Good researchers who investigate crop circles, UFO contact/abductions, spiritual infestations etc., do so from the viewpoint of confirming all possible human intervention before even looking at the possibility of extra terrestrial or extra dimensional intervention. Unfortunately, most die hard dubunkers will first discard any serious investigations and paint all phenomena with "Crack pot"paint.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 8:21 PMFor many years I knew a researcher into this type of unexplainable phenomena and unfortunately, those who wish to condemn it will continue to do so and produce debunker after debunker to back them up. One case I remember happened a few years ago now in a very public place and was video taped from the air.
It was on a paddock across the highway from Stonehenge one summer. A pilot who flew tourists over the site returned to his airport ten minutes flight away and refueled before taking his next group out. When he arrived at Stonehenge a very elaborate scorpion design was displayed in the field across the road. About the same size as the one shown on this thread. None or the tourist operators saw a thing until people arrived to have a look. The thing a lot of people are missing is the real time involved with people being able to do this and have it complete and ready for observation from the air in half an hour. God! It'd take me at least three hours to set up!
The first thing researchers look for in a crop circle is access by foot. The second thing they look for is a hole in the middle of the circle and the third is the bend points of the grasses to check how they happened.
Good researchers who investigate crop circles, UFO contact/abductions, spiritual infestations etc., do so from the viewpoint of confirming all possible human intervention before even looking at the possibility of extra terrestrial or extra dimensional intervention. Unfortunately, most die hard dubunkers will first discard any serious investigations and paint all phenomena with "Crack pot"paint. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:12 PMIn rthe early '90s i got into the study of Mendelbrot and other phenomenal patterns
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set
They proved to be no more extraterrestrial than Mendelbrot sequences, including the Golden Mean in nature and even correlations off-planet:
www.contracosta.edu/math/Pentagrm.htm
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 10:50 AMThe Mandelbrot set in my opinion is a great description of existence/
A family of complex quadratic polynomials defines the Mandelbrot set M where c is a complex parameter. For each c, one considers the behavior of the sequence obtained by iterating Pc(z) starting at critical point z = 0, which either escapes to infinity or stays within a disk of some finite radius. The Mandelbrot set is defined as the set of all points c such that the above sequence does not escape to infinity.
It's almost as if the set describes life in an infinite universe or one could use the terms to describe life in a universe, thus the Theory which I believe in over the Big Bang theory... Even in the Big Bang Theory, there had to be some sort of "Energy" that caused the "Big Bang" thus, the big bang wasn't the beginning but just another series in the infinite loop of the Mandelbrot set which contiues on infinitely...
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:22 PMI'm sorry you cant appreciate my uniqueness Will -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:28 PMAnd I'm sorry you can't explain or discuss it! -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 1:08 AMno need to apologise and no such reality as 'cant'.. hehe..
:) -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:40 AMperhaps "Allowing yourself" would be a better replacement for can't. : ) -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 8:27 AM"They proved to be no more extraterrestrial than Mendelbrot sequences, including the Golden Mean in nature and even correlations off-planet"
?????????
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 8:29 AMnewsflash:
a circle is a circle regardless of where the circle is!
hehe. :) -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:18 AMAssuming a fractal universe, the most interesting question becomes: What was the original equation? -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:52 AM<<What was the original equation?>>
zn+1 = (2zn3 - c + 1)/(3zn2 - c) ... when z3 - 1 = 0 ... ?
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:03 PMA circle is not a circle without a center. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:39 PM<<<A circle is not a circle without a center>>
true .. according to >>> (x - h)2 + (y - k)2 = r2
if r =0 then there is no circle ...
when we define r (radius) to be a line segment that joins
the center of a circle with any point on its circumference ; )
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:54 PMPast threads:
The First Crop Circle of the 2007 Season
2012.tribe.net/thread/f25...5c073d3b811
The First Crop Circle of the 2008 Season
2012.tribe.net/thread/da9...50af105a21e
The First Crop Circle of the 2009 Season
2012.tribe.net/thread/733...f149dbc190b -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 8:04 PMReading through these old threads (especially the one from 2007) is like sitting down with an old photo album. Why do they seem so much longer ago than they actually were? -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 8:06 PMGood question!!!
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 6:13 AMI feel that you are trying to suggest something with this Hoopes? Perhaps its just preexisting conditioning.
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 10:53 AMIt's interesting to see who posted back in 07 and who is still around. Looks like and were a couple even way back then (grin). I'm still a pretty new guy on the block here being here only around a year. Looks like everything is cyclic even on this board. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 11:16 AMI was right too from the 07 thread. Something big did happen in 07. The housing market crashed. That's when I moved to this new job I have also as way to save on gas money from the predicted oil price rise. Thanks to the people who follow the bilderberg meetings -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 11:17 AMIf I were to guess Id say I joined this tribe in 2004 or 2005. That's when it was really hopping too. -
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Re: A hoax made with precision cut boards and rope or the real deal
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 11:36 AMIt was May of 2006 or at least that was as far back as I could find any of my posts plus I joined tribe in May of 2006. It does feel like a long time ago even though it was only 3-4 years.
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