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2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
By Mark Stevenson, Associated Press Writer – Sun Oct 11, 2009
"MEXICO CITY – Apolinario Chile Pixtun is tired of being bombarded with frantic questions about the Mayan calendar supposedly "running out" on Dec. 21, 2012. After all, it's not the end of the world.
Or is it?
Definitely not, the Mayan Indian elder insists. "I came back from England last year and, man, they had me fed up with this stuff."
It can only get worse for him. Next month Hollywood's "2012" opens in cinemas, featuring earthquakes, meteor showers and a tsunami dumping an aircraft carrier on the White House.
At Cornell University, Ann Martin, who runs the "Curious? Ask an Astronomer" Web site, says people are scared.
"It's too bad that we're getting e-mails from fourth-graders who are saying that they're too young to die," Martin said. "We had a mother of two young children who was afraid she wouldn't live to see them grow up."
Chile Pixtun, a Guatemalan, says the doomsday theories spring from Western, not Mayan ideas.
A significant time period for the Mayas does end on the date, and enthusiasts have found a series of astronomical alignments they say coincide in 2012, including one that happens roughly only once every 25,800 years.
But most archaeologists, astronomers and Maya say the only thing likely to hit Earth is a meteor shower of New Age philosophy, pop astronomy, Internet doomsday rumors and TV specials such as one on the History Channel which mixes "predictions" from Nostradamus and the Mayas and asks: "Is 2012 the year the cosmic clock finally winds down to zero days, zero hope?"
It may sound all too much like other doomsday scenarios of recent decades — the 1987 Harmonic Convergence, the Jupiter Effect or "Planet X." But this one has some grains of archaeological basis.
One of them is Monument Six.
Found at an obscure ruin in southern Mexico during highway construction in the 1960s, the stone tablet almost didn't survive; the site was largely paved over and parts of the tablet were looted.
It's unique in that the remaining parts contain the equivalent of the date 2012. The inscription describes something that is supposed to occur in 2012 involving Bolon Yokte, a mysterious Mayan god associated with both war and creation.
However — shades of Indiana Jones — erosion and a crack in the stone make the end of the passage almost illegible.
Archaeologist Guillermo Bernal of Mexico's National Autonomous University interprets the last eroded glyphs as maybe saying, "He will descend from the sky."
Spooky, perhaps, but Bernal notes there are other inscriptions at Mayan sites for dates far beyond 2012 — including one that roughly translates into the year 4772.
And anyway, Mayas in the drought-stricken Yucatan peninsula have bigger worries than 2012.
"If I went to some Mayan-speaking communities and asked people what is going to happen in 2012, they wouldn't have any idea," said Jose Huchim, a Yucatan Mayan archaeologist. "That the world is going to end? They wouldn't believe you. We have real concerns these days, like rain."
The Mayan civilization, which reached its height from 300 A.D. to 900 A.D., had a talent for astronomy
Its Long Count calendar begins in 3,114 B.C., marking time in roughly 394-year periods known as Baktuns. Thirteen was a significant, sacred number for the Mayas, and the 13th Baktun ends around Dec. 21, 2012.
"It's a special anniversary of creation," said David Stuart, a specialist in Mayan epigraphy at the University of Texas at Austin. "The Maya never said the world is going to end, they never said anything bad would happen necessarily, they're just recording this future anniversary on Monument Six."
Bernal suggests that apocalypse is "a very Western, Christian" concept projected onto the Maya, perhaps because Western myths are "exhausted."
If it were all mythology, perhaps it could be written off.
But some say the Maya knew another secret: the Earth's axis wobbles, slightly changing the alignment of the stars every year. Once every 25,800 years, the sun lines up with the center of our Milky Way galaxy on a winter solstice, the sun's lowest point in the horizon.
That will happen on Dec. 21, 2012, when the sun appears to rise in the same spot where the bright center of galaxy sets.
Another spooky coincidence?
"The question I would ask these guys is, so what?" says Phil Plait, an astronomer who runs the "Bad Astronomy" blog. He says the alignment doesn't fall precisely in 2012, and distant stars exert no force that could harm Earth.
"They're really super-duper trying to find anything astronomical they can to fit that date of 2012," Plait said.
But author John Major Jenkins says his two-decade study of Mayan ruins indicate the Maya were aware of the alignment and attached great importance to it.
"If we want to honor and respect how the Maya think about this, then we would say that the Maya viewed 2012, as all cycle endings, as a time of transformation and renewal," said Jenkins.
As the Internet gained popularity in the 1990s, so did word of the "fateful" date, and some began worrying about 2012 disasters the Mayas never dreamed of.
Author Lawrence Joseph says a peak in explosive storms on the surface of the sun could knock out North America's power grid for years, triggering food shortages, water scarcity — a collapse of civilization. Solar peaks occur about every 11 years, but Joseph says there's evidence the 2012 peak could be "a lulu."
While pressing governments to install protection for power grids, Joseph counsels readers not to "use 2012 as an excuse to not live in a healthy, responsible fashion. I mean, don't let the credit cards go up."
Another History Channel program titled "Decoding the Past: Doomsday 2012: End of Days" says a galactic alignment or magnetic disturbances could somehow trigger a "pole shift."
"The entire mantle of the earth would shift in a matter of days, perhaps hours, changing the position of the north and south poles, causing worldwide disaster," a narrator proclaims. "Earthquakes would rock every continent, massive tsunamis would inundate coastal cities. It would be the ultimate planetary catastrophe."
The idea apparently originates with a 19th century Frenchman, Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg, a priest-turned-archaeologist who got it from his study of ancient Mayan and Aztec texts.
Scientists say that, at best, the poles might change location by one degree over a million years, with no sign that it would start in 2012.
While long discredited, Brasseur de Bourbourg proves one thing: Westerners have been trying for more than a century to pin doomsday scenarios on the Maya. And while fascinated by ancient lore, advocates seldom examine more recent experiences with apocalypse predictions.
"No one who's writing in now seems to remember that the last time we thought the world was going to end, it didn't," says Martin, the astronomy webmaster. "There doesn't seem to be a lot of memory that things were fine the last time around."
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091...calypse2012
;
By Mark Stevenson, Associated Press Writer – Sun Oct 11, 2009
"MEXICO CITY – Apolinario Chile Pixtun is tired of being bombarded with frantic questions about the Mayan calendar supposedly "running out" on Dec. 21, 2012. After all, it's not the end of the world.
Or is it?
Definitely not, the Mayan Indian elder insists. "I came back from England last year and, man, they had me fed up with this stuff."
It can only get worse for him. Next month Hollywood's "2012" opens in cinemas, featuring earthquakes, meteor showers and a tsunami dumping an aircraft carrier on the White House.
At Cornell University, Ann Martin, who runs the "Curious? Ask an Astronomer" Web site, says people are scared.
"It's too bad that we're getting e-mails from fourth-graders who are saying that they're too young to die," Martin said. "We had a mother of two young children who was afraid she wouldn't live to see them grow up."
Chile Pixtun, a Guatemalan, says the doomsday theories spring from Western, not Mayan ideas.
A significant time period for the Mayas does end on the date, and enthusiasts have found a series of astronomical alignments they say coincide in 2012, including one that happens roughly only once every 25,800 years.
But most archaeologists, astronomers and Maya say the only thing likely to hit Earth is a meteor shower of New Age philosophy, pop astronomy, Internet doomsday rumors and TV specials such as one on the History Channel which mixes "predictions" from Nostradamus and the Mayas and asks: "Is 2012 the year the cosmic clock finally winds down to zero days, zero hope?"
It may sound all too much like other doomsday scenarios of recent decades — the 1987 Harmonic Convergence, the Jupiter Effect or "Planet X." But this one has some grains of archaeological basis.
One of them is Monument Six.
Found at an obscure ruin in southern Mexico during highway construction in the 1960s, the stone tablet almost didn't survive; the site was largely paved over and parts of the tablet were looted.
It's unique in that the remaining parts contain the equivalent of the date 2012. The inscription describes something that is supposed to occur in 2012 involving Bolon Yokte, a mysterious Mayan god associated with both war and creation.
However — shades of Indiana Jones — erosion and a crack in the stone make the end of the passage almost illegible.
Archaeologist Guillermo Bernal of Mexico's National Autonomous University interprets the last eroded glyphs as maybe saying, "He will descend from the sky."
Spooky, perhaps, but Bernal notes there are other inscriptions at Mayan sites for dates far beyond 2012 — including one that roughly translates into the year 4772.
And anyway, Mayas in the drought-stricken Yucatan peninsula have bigger worries than 2012.
"If I went to some Mayan-speaking communities and asked people what is going to happen in 2012, they wouldn't have any idea," said Jose Huchim, a Yucatan Mayan archaeologist. "That the world is going to end? They wouldn't believe you. We have real concerns these days, like rain."
The Mayan civilization, which reached its height from 300 A.D. to 900 A.D., had a talent for astronomy
Its Long Count calendar begins in 3,114 B.C., marking time in roughly 394-year periods known as Baktuns. Thirteen was a significant, sacred number for the Mayas, and the 13th Baktun ends around Dec. 21, 2012.
"It's a special anniversary of creation," said David Stuart, a specialist in Mayan epigraphy at the University of Texas at Austin. "The Maya never said the world is going to end, they never said anything bad would happen necessarily, they're just recording this future anniversary on Monument Six."
Bernal suggests that apocalypse is "a very Western, Christian" concept projected onto the Maya, perhaps because Western myths are "exhausted."
If it were all mythology, perhaps it could be written off.
But some say the Maya knew another secret: the Earth's axis wobbles, slightly changing the alignment of the stars every year. Once every 25,800 years, the sun lines up with the center of our Milky Way galaxy on a winter solstice, the sun's lowest point in the horizon.
That will happen on Dec. 21, 2012, when the sun appears to rise in the same spot where the bright center of galaxy sets.
Another spooky coincidence?
"The question I would ask these guys is, so what?" says Phil Plait, an astronomer who runs the "Bad Astronomy" blog. He says the alignment doesn't fall precisely in 2012, and distant stars exert no force that could harm Earth.
"They're really super-duper trying to find anything astronomical they can to fit that date of 2012," Plait said.
But author John Major Jenkins says his two-decade study of Mayan ruins indicate the Maya were aware of the alignment and attached great importance to it.
"If we want to honor and respect how the Maya think about this, then we would say that the Maya viewed 2012, as all cycle endings, as a time of transformation and renewal," said Jenkins.
As the Internet gained popularity in the 1990s, so did word of the "fateful" date, and some began worrying about 2012 disasters the Mayas never dreamed of.
Author Lawrence Joseph says a peak in explosive storms on the surface of the sun could knock out North America's power grid for years, triggering food shortages, water scarcity — a collapse of civilization. Solar peaks occur about every 11 years, but Joseph says there's evidence the 2012 peak could be "a lulu."
While pressing governments to install protection for power grids, Joseph counsels readers not to "use 2012 as an excuse to not live in a healthy, responsible fashion. I mean, don't let the credit cards go up."
Another History Channel program titled "Decoding the Past: Doomsday 2012: End of Days" says a galactic alignment or magnetic disturbances could somehow trigger a "pole shift."
"The entire mantle of the earth would shift in a matter of days, perhaps hours, changing the position of the north and south poles, causing worldwide disaster," a narrator proclaims. "Earthquakes would rock every continent, massive tsunamis would inundate coastal cities. It would be the ultimate planetary catastrophe."
The idea apparently originates with a 19th century Frenchman, Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg, a priest-turned-archaeologist who got it from his study of ancient Mayan and Aztec texts.
Scientists say that, at best, the poles might change location by one degree over a million years, with no sign that it would start in 2012.
While long discredited, Brasseur de Bourbourg proves one thing: Westerners have been trying for more than a century to pin doomsday scenarios on the Maya. And while fascinated by ancient lore, advocates seldom examine more recent experiences with apocalypse predictions.
"No one who's writing in now seems to remember that the last time we thought the world was going to end, it didn't," says Martin, the astronomy webmaster. "There doesn't seem to be a lot of memory that things were fine the last time around."
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091...calypse2012
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Sun, October 11, 2009 - 3:09 PMA Brief History of the Apocalypse
www.abhota.info/end1.htm
Here's another Mayan elder saying 2012 is not the end as well
paulapeterson.com/Mayan_Calendar.html
This entire 'end times' / 2012 thing is turning into another fear tactic tool for the religious who strongly desire some apocalyptic end. Yes, religious is big business.
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 1:31 AMindeed.......
hopefully it will be a shift....wake people up to the idea of actually living in balance and harmony with nature, instead of the results of the past few decades of domination......we can look around us and see where that kind of thinking has gotten us
(we posted the same article....) i find it interesting that within 2 days the same article was printed up on MSN and Yahoo...the word is getting out there....and this article was thankfully well written and well rounded in its viewpoint -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 2:40 AMwouldn't it be funny if the new age fabulists are right and the world does end in an horrific bloodcurdling nastiness of catastrophic gore in 2012...
and the only ones left after the wobble are a few tie dye thuleans that have holed up in strategic provisioned bunkers etc... -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 2:46 AMIt's the end of "time"!
"Take the hands off the clock
we're gonna be here a while!"
~Camper Van Beethoven -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:55 AMDo they have all the knowledge of their ancestors? -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 5:08 AMit's probably wired into their dna...
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 5:45 AMok, but then the knowledge of the ancients of the ancients would be in us all -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 5:58 AMnope...
only those of the pure hyperborean race...
that have paid to activate their secret enochian codes of thule...
will have access to the annoying fancy dress party that is known as the future...
for they are "the 'cream' of the fourth race", which "gravitated more and more toward the apex of physical and intellectual evolution", the Aryan fifth root race corresponds to "the final adjustment of the human organism -- which became perfect and symmetrical only in the Fifth Race" etc... hahaha
so small wonder that mayan elders don't know much about what is going on because it doesn't concern them... ;)
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 6:31 AMHoly Chao! -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 6:47 AM -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 2:28 PM
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 7:03 AMFrom the article:
"The idea apparently originates with a 19th century Frenchman, Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg, a priest-turned-archaeologist who got it from his study of ancient Mayan and Aztec texts."
Charles Étienne Brasseur de Bourbourg
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bras..._Bourbourg
Although Brasseur was the leading authority on the ancient Maya in his day, and the discoverer of important lost manuscripts such as the Popol Vuh and Fray Diego de Landa's "Relación de las Cosas de Yucatán," in his late career he became convinced that the ancient Maya civilization derived from the imaginary lost continent of Atlantis. Esoteric scholars picked up on this. Some have never let it go.
Some other misguided 19th century scholars whose fantasies contributed to what has emerged as the 2012 meme:
Edward King, Viscount Kingsborough
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Kingsborough
Kingsborough, as a college student from a wealthy Irish family, became fascinated with ancient Mexican manuscripts and became convinced that the Aztecs, Maya, and others were actually the Lost Tribes of Israel. He dedicated his fortune to publishing facsimiles of codices, reports on mysterious ruins, and other documents to support his theories. While this put a lot of useful material into the hands of scholars, his fantastic theories fueled speculation that was later invalidated.
Jean-Frédéric Waldeck
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean...ic_Waldeck
Waldeck, who had been to Egypt as a soldier under Napoleon, later trained as a painter under Romantic master Jacques-Louis David. He traveled in Mexico, especially Yucatan and Chiapas, in the early 1800s and published some of the first detailed illustrations of Maya ruins. Unfortunately, his images were embellished with reconstructed details that made Maya pyramids look like Egyptian ones and Maya sculpture look as if it were in the style of ancient Greece. (He also included heads of elephants in his illustrations of Maya glyph panels.) When Waldeck's illustrations appeared in Brasseur's books with discussions of Maya origins on the lost continent of Atlantis, people believed the fantasies were true.
Joseph Adhemar
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Adhemar
Adhemar was a mathematician who first suggested what morphed into pole shift theory. His idea was that the period buildup of ice at the poles resulted in rapid and catastrophic shifts of the Earth's poles due to problems of weight distribution.
Augustus Le Plongeon
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_plongeon
Le Plongeon was a romantic adventurer and self-styled archaeologist who, inspired by Heinrich Schliemann's discovery of ancient Troy, sought to make comparable discoveries in the Yucatan. He conducted the first excavations at Chichen Itza, finding a lot of sculpture but destroying significant portions of the site in the process. Le Plongeon became convinced that ancient Egyptian civilization had been derived from ancient Maya civilization (which he dated to 11,500 years ago) by way of Atlantis and that the origins of Freemasonry could be traced to the ancient Maya. He also thought that Jesus' last words on the cross were Mayan. He was widely regarded as an eccentric crackpot. He and his wife Alice, a close associate of Annie Besant, had a strong influence on Madame Blavatsky and the theosophists.
Désiré Charnay
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_Charnay
Charnay explored and photographed Mexican and Maya ruins. Influenced by 19th century "scientific racism," he advanced a theory that their ancient civilization could be traced through a light-skinned race he referred to as the "Toltecs" whose ancestry could be traced to the Aryans of northern India and the Himalayas. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 8:36 AMMaya codices or written texts were destroyed in bulk by the Conquistadors and priests in the 16 century. Only three codices and possibly a fragment of a fourth survived to modern times. With their destruction, the opportunity for insight into some key areas of Maya life has been greatly diminished.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_codices
There are not enough codices left to really know much about the Maya. The entire 2012 'end times' thing is based utterly on ignorance - mostly it's Christianity trying to attach it to the end times of Revelation. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 9:49 AMThere may not be many Maya codices left, but there are also several Mixtec and Aztec codices.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_codices
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixtec_writing
There are also thousands of portable objects and fixed monuments containing hieroglyphic inscriptions written by the ancient Maya, ranging from inscribed jades to painted ceramic vessels, to carved stone stelae. It's not necessary to rely upon the codices to really know much about the ancient Maya. Besides, don't forget that the codices were compiled and written by the elite. They were just as subject to manipulation and propaganda as documents written by religious and political elites today.
Knowledge about the ancient Maya is based on ethnohistory (the study of documents compiled at the time of Spanish contact and afterwards), ethnography (the study of living Maya peoples), archaeology (the study of ancient Maya material culture), art history (the study of ancient Maya art), epigraphy (the study of ancient Maya writing systems), and lots of other sources of information. It is precisely the *lack* of information about "prophecies" regarding 2012 in this other material that makes it clear the hype is mostly based on modern mythology.
I completely agree that the 2012 'end times' thing is based on ignorance. That's been known from the very beginning:
Mayanism
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayanism
With public education, instant access to information, and some basic critical thinking skills, there's no excuse for being ignorant. However, it continues to run rampant, fueled in part by the desire of a few predators to make a lot of money off of ignorance and gullibility instead of offering compassion and education (as I try to do). -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 9:53 AMcan you build pyramids without schemes...?
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 2:41 PM>>>There may not be many Maya codices left, but there are also several Mixtec and Aztec codices. <<<
I myself like "Texmex" ;)
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 9:56 AMthe most 'up to date' info I have come across on the subject of these records is here:
www.youtube.com/watch
probably around pt 3 -4-5 (if I recall correctly) -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 10:44 AMis he talking from a quiz show in a tv studios or the lobby of a swimming pool...? -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 11:01 AMno, its 'the future'
hehe.. :) -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 11:05 AMhe's in the thulean bunker already...?
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:13 PM"the most 'up to date' info I have come across on the subject of these records is here"
You're kidding, right? -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:16 PM
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 7:29 PMhoopes:
I was referring to the specific numbers of codices since he mentions in that video that there are others which were carefully hidden/stored and no destroyed. I have no investment in it either way. just pointing out that since the mainstream in general doesn't pay much/any attention to drunvalo they will possibly not be aware of what he is saying.
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 12:33 PM"No one who's writing in now seems to remember that the last time we thought the world was going to end, it didn't," says Martin, the astronomy webmaster. "There doesn't seem to be a lot of memory that things were fine the last time around."
Unfortunately, it did end with the rise of the Undie-Chrust GWB that led us into a time of darkness and despair, the third world war and the time of Orwellian 1984.
Cycles are everywhere in nature and the Maya saw this. We don't, because we reject the cycles and believe we can outlive our time here. The problem is that we just keep breeding and because of that stupidity, we will run out of food and we will run out of water and we will run out of space and at some point it will all come crashing down in our arrogant stupid faces and we will end.
These are the end times if we let them be, but it will have nothing to do with meditation and more to do with action. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 12:53 PMI don't keep breeding...
electing the son of bush was offensive and doing it twice was beyond sick but I didn't do it...
so I really don't like all this "we" business...
it ain't me... hahaha
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 11:13 PMWell I have to say it wasn't me either as I wasn't even there. And since I've been voting, which is every three years in this country, I've not once seen anyone by the name of dick wit Bush.
By the way we had his bum chum Howie in charge of our mess for that time and he went along with every thing his boyfriend said. Good reason the whole world is screwed now. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 7:48 AMI tend to agrre with Gerard, here. The apocalypse is upon us. We needn't wait for 2012.
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:26 PMThe Mayan Elders are currently writing a book to set the record straight on the Mayan calandar/prophecies.
stay tuned... -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 4:31 PMI hope they make alot of money, but they better get it done soon
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 9:09 PMWell, I hope they do a lot better with that one than the ones that non-Maya authors claim to have written at their request.
Such as this one:
The Book of Destiny: Unlocking the Secrets of the Ancient Mayans and the Prophecy of 2012, by Carlos Barrios
www.amazon.com/Book-Desti.../0061574147
"Written at the request of the Mayan Elders, by member of the Guatemalan Elders Council and Mayan Priest Carlos Barrios..."
Barrios is a Guatemalan of Spanish ancestry whose book is a mishmash of New Age lore and fantasy.
Who are these "Mayan Elders," anyway? Some crafty old people who are in on the joke?
Old age and cunning will triumph over youth and enthusiasm every time. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Mon, October 12, 2009 - 11:33 PMWho are these "Mayan Elders," anyway? Some crafty old people who are in on the joke? <<<
hmmm... im not sure to be honest. its been hearsay for awhile (since last year) but i think i trust the sources even if i can't think of whom it is right now. i think it came up during the ancestors gathering earlier this year, or last year when drunvalo was travelling. and even though he is super fringy, he does have a knack for connecting to the wisdom. we know some of the same folks, traditional, concerned, etc... i'll investigate. oh, i know, someone reminded me of it yesterday on fb. she also mentioned that sweatleaders from around sedona were gathering to hold a commuity meeting so that regular folk in the community could have a better understanding of sweatlodge and express that sedona had nothing to do with the event, it just happened to be at a resort nearby. this is true! lead by adam yellowbird, who is a facilitator of the mayan elder book being compiled. he is also a sweatleader in the lakota tradition (i've done his, so i know it is!) the point is, i trust its all legit for my sedonites, so far! -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 5:30 AMI wouldn't trust anyone who uses Melchizadek in their name. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 5:43 AMHis birth name - Bernard Perona - obviously doesn't have the same 'something special' about it. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 5:45 AMDrunvalo Melchizedek vs Bernard Perona
For advertising purposes, the former sounds much better. -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 10:35 AMSome discussion of Bernard Perona (a.k.a. Drunvalo Mechizedek) in a skeptical forum:
forums.randi.org/showthread.php
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 10:19 AM -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 10:28 AMMakes me wonder about the "Drunvalo," too. Anyone know where it comes from?
"Olav Nurd" backwards?
Something else? -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 11:17 AMnowadays he says the name was given to him by a couple of angels and they weren't tellin' or if you snoop around there's mention in now defunct websites and old mailing lists that it was the name of a 5000 year old atlantean he was channeling.
the genius part is however - his name produces nothing in any anagram generator - thus avoiding any further attempt of mockery.
but like Wil, I've been pronouncing it melcheezydick for years. out of respect of course - its a fusion of his masculine spirit encasing and churning the milk of the mother and turning it into a solid mass his devotees can chew upon. yum
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 10:34 AMI started pronouncing this "mel cheesy dick" long ago, and can't seem to shake the habit when i see the word.
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 4:19 PMThe article at the top of this thread was reposted to Boing Boing by a former student of mine who added her comments to some of mine. It's drawing lots of interesting comments:
What actual Mayans are saying about 2012
www.boingboing.net/2009/10/...ns-a.html -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 7:13 PMI have mixed feelings about the issue; obviously this movie (and other merchandise) will rake in massive profits, while there are impoverished Maya communities that could use some help... On the other hand I really dislike 'property' not to mention 'intellectual property'... imagine if there was a patent on the Pentatonic scale?
An enforced law that forces money to flow to certain foundations is undesirable imo,
so all we can hope for is donations from Hollywood to aid organizations; might as well hope for Jesus' return.
On our end, we can boycott the film and teach people around us what we've learned.
In my case that will be that the New Age religion is yet another opiate for the masses, and 2012 is a tourist attraction on it's path. Nothing significant will happen but the stories spun will say the things Obama did were exactly what the Maya were expecting... :( -
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Re: 2012 isn't the end of the world, Mayan elder insists
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 8:06 PMsomething made me google "mexican border" +2012
www.google.com.au/search
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