Are there any African indigenous texts or peoples who speak of the new age?
Or anywhere else in the world for that matter..
Or anywhere else in the world for that matter..
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 11:25 AMJacob, I'm talking about the end of Kali Yuga (the age of darkness) and the beginning of the Age of Truth and Enlightenment. There's a lot of disagreement about the yugas, how long they last, where we are in them, when they end, etc. Traditional interpretation says we're in Kali Yuga for 435,000 more years, which just doesn't feel right to me personally. Vishnu has 10 incarnations per Mahayuga, and 9 have already been here (Ram was 7th, Krishna 8th, Buddha 9th), so why would we have to wait 435,000 more years for the 10th? There's obviously (to me) some misinterpretation of the dates somewhere. Here's an interesting thread about it on the 100th:
Here's a description of Kali Yuga from the wikipedia article: "In the Kali Yuga, there will be numerous rulers vying with each other. They will have no character. Violence, falsehood and wickedness will be the order of the day. Piety and good nature will dwindle slowly... Passion and lust will be the only attraction between the sexes. Women will be the objects of sensual pleasure. Dishonest will be the bottom line of subsistence. Learned people will be ridiculed and put to shame; the word of the wealthy person will be the only law."
That sure sounds like "now" to me!
Tue, February 21, 2006 - 11:36 AMand of course, my nabes, the hopi-- (who are consorting with many of the other indigenous wisdomkeepers of earth) call this time the emergence into the fifth world.
nothing new about the new age as far as i can tell.
Tue, February 21, 2006 - 2:25 PMYes.
I can tell you who has participated in indigenous events related to this issue that I am aware of: Numerous Native American nations in Alaska, Canada, US, Mexico. Aztec, Mayan, and several South American tribes. Caribbean- Taino Tribal Nation. Hawaiian, Maori, Pacific Islanders, Aborigines. Zulu, Sami, Celtic, Moaene/Ila (also European). Japaneses people have also participated.
I think those are all the ones I know about directly. Now, I can't say whether all of those indigenous nations have specific prophesy about this time, but I can tell you all of them take "this time of prophesies" seriously. Many do have corresponding prophesies. Some make them public, others don't. There are indigenous organizations and groups who have formed around this issue as well as individual medicine people doing work in certain places.
My Ancestors - the Moaene or Ila people predicted this time and prepared for it. These are the indigenous people of Europe who lived prior to the Celts, Norse,etc.
This is why I stress our attention to indigenous wisdom. Take a deep breath and think about this for a second...
Indigenous people have been aware of the flow of time for thousands of years.
Medicine person after medicine person has spoken with their Ancestors and Spirits to get/modify this knowledge.
Wisdom has been passed down in oral histories and stories.
Many white people *claim* they know what's going to happen more so than the indigenous caretakers of this world- many making outrageous claims.
Do you see anything that doesn't make sense there? Could you see where indigenous people could find white people to be full of shit? Do you think white people should hold these so called "shamans", mediums, healers, sages, whatever... to a higher standard?
Something to think about.
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 1:04 AMNaomi, while I respect and enjoy reading about your connection and revererence for indidenous lineage, there seems to be such hostility and frustration towards those not "in the know" as it relates to these so called original peoples. I don't know if I'm pulling this out of thin air, but there's a point when we can remember through forgetting. By dissolving our history at any scale, be it personal or genetic, we open ourselves up to the reception of these same messages the indigenous high people, erasing the idea of history and reconnecting once again with the moment. The moment being this 2012 that was visible even then. The reason all these different cultures foretold a 2012 is because it's all the same 2012, this IS 2012, and one of these years, everyone will see that. and laugh, and love, and live.
Sharing the loving light,
Just another Matt
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 6:19 AMThanks for your comments Matt.
I think you would be mistaken to assume hostility or frustration. The fact is, few white people are called out and asked to justify their outrageous claims of connection, power, knowledge, spirituality, etc. I don't have any sort of frustration for those who are sincerely trying to enhance their spirituality. What I do have concern about is the multiple layers of crap I hear repeated by (mostly) white people based on the many thousands of books, workshops, gurus, etc. which is ultimately taking us away from the real source.
We have developed a culture where any crackpot can claim the most sacred of connections, and they get a free pass because of a 'respect' for 'their rights'. This is ultimately harmful to us and we are *running out of time*.
Because I work with indigenous people *every day*, I hear the things they say and feel not to mention see the outcomes of all kinds of colonialism - including spiritual colonialism. And maybe the Ancestors give me a little nudge now and then to understand things a little better.
I'm simply trying to make people of european heritage more aware of how they move and act in this world. I choose to do it very directly. I could also choose to tell quaint stories with a message, but I don't. Sometimes we need less medicine person and more warrior.
Okay. From what I hear you say you propose we can "remember through forgetting" and get the same messages the indigenous medicine people receive?
There are two things I will offer. The first is that the Ancestors - the Grandmothers and the Grandfathers speak to us, now more than ever. They hold thousands of years of wisdom that we can learn from, otherwise we have to learn it all again or find someone who can interpret it for us which will also take quite some time.
The second thing I offer is this: the very large supermajority of people could not hold the knowledge and the power of that knowledge held by the, as you describe, "indigenous high people". Why? Because this knowledge is cummulative through a people's history. Because your spiritual body has to be modified with the help of your Ancestors and Spirits through repeated ceremony to be able to contain this knowledge otherwise your 'self' will fry like an egg. This connection is hard enough for medicine people with a cultural tradition to hold on a continual basis much less every jack and jill who claims to be accessing this knowledge. A shamanic workshop does not make a shaman - the Spirits do.
Another question I will ask you to ponder is this. If these "new" forms of spirituality divorced from the Ancestors and their Spirits are so powerful, connected, accessible, etc. why aren't traditional indigenous people using them to access the sacred? Where is the rush of native people to grab this new knowledge for enlightenment? Don't they want the same sacred connection as New Agers do? And certainly the medicine people would be able to see the power of this "new knowledge". Why aren't they joining the New Age spiritualities in mass? Why do traditionalists condemn New Age spiritualities in mass?
I'll let you sort out the answers.
The power is in the Old Ways. If you knew the prophesies and spoke to the elders, you would know this. They aren't saying we should run naked and giggling into this new time - they are saying we *must* return to the old ways - to the Ancestors - to make it through the struggles that lie ahead. If you don't know the prophesies and don't speak with the elders - maybe you should listen to someone who does - and ask hard questions for those who say they do. You can separate the wheat from the chaff.
P.S. And don't count on waiting until 2012.
Unsu...Wed, February 22, 2006 - 11:11 AMNaomi,
I feel as though anything that is "New Age" strongly goes against your agenda, which, in so many words (yours) is: "to Guide people of European heritage to their Ancestors and the Old Ways in this time of change."
First off, there is no clear definition of "New Age." The following is an article written by K. Anderson;
Defining the New Age
The New Age Movement has taken on a variety of names including the Human Potential Movement, the Third Force, the Aquarian Conspiracy, Cosmic Consciousness, and Cosmic Humanism. Although most refer to it as the New Age Movement, many in the movement do not like that label, and many others would not even consider themselves part of the movement, even though they may hold to many of the core beliefs of the New Age Movement.
Accurately defining the New Age is a formidable task for several reasons. First, the New Age Movement is eclectic and diverse. It is not a cohesive movement but is exceedingly diverse in its composition and ideology. The unifying factors are shared ideology rather than a shared organizational structure.
Second, the New Age Movement is difficult to define because it emphasizes and encourages change. The New Age Movement is syncretistic and therefore evolutionary in its nature. Many proponents change their perspectives, and so it is frequently difficult to pin down the major beliefs of the New Age Movement.
Major Tenets of the New Age
Even given the diversity and transitory nature of the New Age Movement, there are still a number of major tenets generally held in common by most groups within this movement.
First is the belief in monism. Many New Agers believe that "all is one." Everything and everyone is interrelated and interdependent. Ultimately there is no real difference between humans, animals, rocks, or even God. Any differences between these entities are merely apparent, not real.
Second is the belief in pantheism. Since New Agers already believe that "all is one," the next logical assumption would be that "all is god." All of creation partakes of the divine essence. All of life (and even non-life) has a spark of divinity within.
The third major tenet of the New Age follows as a logical conclusion from the other two. If "all is one" and "all is god," then we should conclude that "we are gods." We are, according to New Agers, ignorant of our divinity. We are "gods in disguise." The goal, therefore, of the New Age Movement is to discover our own divinity.
Fourth, we discover our own divinity by experiencing a change in consciousness. The human race suffers from a collective form of metaphysical amnesia. We have forgotten that our true identity is divine and thus must undergo a change of consciousness to achieve our true human potential (hence the name, the Human Potential Movement).
A fifth tenet is reincarnation. Most New Agers believe in some form of reincarnation. In its classic form, the cycles of birth, death, and reincarnation are necessary to work off our bad "karma" and to reach perfection. The doctrine of karma says that one's present condition is determined by one's actions in a past life.
The Western version of reincarnation held by many New Agers places much less emphasis on bad karma and postulates an upward spiral towards perfection through reincarnation. This view has been espoused by such people as Shirley MacLaine, Sylvester Stallone, George Patton, and Henry Ford.
A final major tenet is moral relativism. New Agers think in terms of gray, rather than black or white. Denying the law of non- contradiction, New Agers will often believe that two conflicting statements can both be true. They will therefore teach that "all religions are true" and "there are many paths to God."
The bottom line is, there is no one way to define "New Age," therefore, I don't see how it can be dismissed so easily as if it were some concrete belief. As somebody who feels some of the elements of this collective thought, I feel it may be offensive to some, the way in which you dismiss it so surely. The "New Age" presence clearly brings peoples closer to their self, and others, and nature. What harm is in this? Sure, there are going to be a few off the rocker, but that can be found in any one grouping of collective beliefs.
You say, why aren't indigenous peoples joining the New Age spiritualities in mass? On the contrary, off the top of the nogin, I know of one example that shows this is untrue. MANY descendants of the Mayan People fully support (some might say, "New Ager" ) Jose Arguelles. Here is a short quote that may help you understand where Dr. Arguelles stands: "My approach is called New Dispensation Maya. It is dependent on prophetic and scientific revelation. New Dispensation supports and is a complete vindication of all indigenous Maya, and indigenous people everywhere. Insofar as it is based on the Tzolkin, we are the same system as the indigenous Maya. While recognizing the indigenous Maya, and all existing indigenous people as biospheric caretakers, New Dispensation Maya is universal and is for everyone on the planet today."
One question for you: why is your focus so strongly on those of European heritage?? Your focus seems to be narrow and so specific.. and I simply do not understand how this is going to be helpful for many peoples.
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 6:54 PMAhhh. Thank you Melissa for a good dialogue.
First of all, I don't question the assortment of New Age beliefs because they conflict with "my agenda". That's a gross oversimplification of my motivations and perspective.
I'll try to simplify the question that I ask in a clear way.
By the definition you supply, and by personal experience, people who fall into the New Age category tend to experiment with various beliefs and choose from an eclectic array of spiritual rituals and ceremonies - and a fair criticism is these rituals are used whether they have been given 'permission' to use them, or not by the original culture.
If we believe in the authenticity and depth of wisdom and prophesy that is held by indigenous peoples (including the indigenous Europeans), and we have been told by many nations we must adopt the old ways and the old knowledge held sacred by indigenous peoples in order to survive the coming changes, then why are we looking anywhere else?
I mean hasn't it all been pretty much laid out for us by our indigenous siblings?
And if the answer is positive towards adopting indigenous wisdom, then the answer simply becomes "how?"
Then all we need to do is look to the indigenous people's themselves to tell us how.
As for Jose Arguelles, I believe the gran council of Ajq'ij and Elders in Guatemala has issued a statement of concern about Mr Arguelles beliefs and his neo-Mayan calendar. I'll be happy to ask a friend of mine who is a Mayan spiritual leader in a traditional organization in Guatemala City as well. I don't question Mr. Arguelles good intentions but I think the following explanation really captures alot about the unity of indigenous knowledge, sacred sites, ceremony and traditional teachings:
"as it is in any trradition is to maintain it's essential core because that is where it's value and power lies. By diluting and confusing a tradition, the elders fear that the core essence of what has been preserved for so long through such hardship. What these other modern interpretations have done is to be developed without that spiritual core, the essence that in reality trancends the form through which it is taught. By building upon the structure without being brought to the depths of that inherited knowledge and wisdom, the most essential component is lost. That is why most native traditions are taught in lineages, not necessarily by blood, but by teaching. The Cholq'ij is a living calendar recognized by the many different peoples of the region and it is living precisely because the deeper knowledge and wisdom has been passed along through the generations, not only through intellect but through the ceremonies and sacred places."
You also ask why is my focus so narrowly on my Ancient European Ancestors? After all I have written, I believe you know the answer already. How would I have access to the kinds of people I reference? How do I know so much about indigenous issues and prophesies? How do I know so much about the indigenous Europeans?
C'mon Melissa. You know.
So do I have to help everyone, or just people from a certain place? Hmmm...
Fri, February 24, 2006 - 9:49 AMhi naomi
if i may ask, what about the massive portion of the family who are of mixed blood? mixed ancestory?
oo, and where did you lear about the "indigenous europeans" honestly i have never really looked into euro cultures that old. i had heard that the laplanders in finland were europes only surviving indigenous population...
Fri, February 24, 2006 - 10:40 AMThis is a good question in these days. Whether you are full blood or mixed blood the answer remains the same.
Listen with your heart.
Listen for your Ancestors. They are speaking to us with louder voices now.
So, maybe if you are mixed Native American/Euro-American- you might be called to the Red Road, or to the ways of Wyrd or Adur, or both together. After all, they share so many similarities.
What is most important is to connect with the wisdom of your Grandmothers and Grandfathers no matter which part of your ethnicity they reflect.
There's alot happening now. Many indigenous prophesies say the old european tribes will be reborn in this time. It is happening.
Fri, February 24, 2006 - 11:05 AMthanks naomi. i have a few more if you dont mind... what about all the euros living on turtle? should we be visualizing ancient europe in our meditations with the ancestors? what about the many who feel pulled to the red road despire a lack of blood connection? what about the idea of star seeds, the ones who come from outside pachamamma? is blood the connecting power or is it something else? is this literal ancestor based or can we connect with ALL the ancestors?
i am very interested and since you seem to prefer the blunt method of communication i gotta follow suit.
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...Fri, February 24, 2006 - 1:51 PMno need to worry, just as naomi said, listen to your heart and the ancestors will speak
no need for shame (past) or fear (new)
everything that has evolved beyond itself has brought with it a new age
and these new ages are the result of remembering by forgetting
forgetting atavistic tendancies like our habit of using labels that over-simplify and marginalize
we are all mixed blood and that blood is one in the heart of god
Unsu...Fri, February 24, 2006 - 2:08 PMwhat i mean is that never before have we as a global species had the chance to pool our collective wisdom together and all be as one. i mean CONSCIOUSLY
learning to see all as one inseparable whole is very healthy
it's the tragic nature of history that the keepers of the most precious ancient knowledge have been given good reason to mistrust any outsider
and when Kukulkan turns into the Ku Kux Klan you have yourself a problem
but let's not overreact by confusing Jose Arguelles with David Duke
we have a lot to get through and the time is now
thank you and love to you all for participating in this dialouge
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Fri, February 24, 2006 - 3:34 PMI don't mind at all. Thank you. I really appreciate you being interested enough to ask these kinds of questions. I'll share what I know based on what has been shared with me.
>>what about all the euros living on turtle? should we be visualizing ancient europe in our meditations with the ancestors?<<
Yes. We should be listening to our European ancestors - whether they turn out to be Celtic, Gaelic, Pictish, Norse, Germanic, Moaene (Ila), Uralic, etc. They have wisdom we need. The sacred hoop has four directions, with four tribes. We need the white tribe just as involved as the others.
>>what about the many who feel pulled to the red road despire a lack of blood connection? <<
Based on what has been shared with me, I have two feelings.
One, considering we live on Turtle Island, it would make sense that people feel called to honor the Red Road walking here. For people that feel absolutely, necessarily called to Native American medicine ways, then they need to follow certain protocols because this culture is not theirs, they are only students seeking teachers. Like any respectful person they need to find the elders or traditionalists in the tribe that speaks to them and ask to study in an honorable way. I will say that people who feel called to medicine practice have an obligation to not just take the parts of Native American spirituality they like and discard the rest, but to embrace the totality of it with your heart.
This also means making yourself aware of the issues of Native Americans and working to support them like you would your own brothers and sisters. One group I would recommend for real medicine practice that is open to all people is Gary Fourstar and the Many Horses Foundation. Try www.manyhorses.org.
The second anwer is this. Despite our living on Turtle Island, we still need the wisdom from the white tribes of the four directions. If people of European heritage don't take the time to recover this wisdom, we will all be poorer for it and the unity of the Four Directions will be affected. So if you feel called to the European tribes - your Ancestors are asking you to do remember. You should do it, eh?
>>what about the idea of star seeds, the ones who come from outside pachamamma?<<
I'm not a big supporter of galactic explanations based on what has been shared with me. If you look around, you will see many people on a pie-in-the-sky kind of path. They seem a little disconnected. These stories are a distraction from the ancient wisdom we have been told to reclaim.
I feel sadness for people that might be waiting for some starship to arrive when our Mother decides to give us stronger course corrections. Those who aren't prepared for catastrophic events are probably going to live in misery. or die. The mythology of many cultures talks about the Ancient ones or some sort of equivalent. My experience with these Spirits within my cultural context is they are more the embodiment of primary spiritual elements than some sort of superior alien race. Beam me up Scotty!
>>is blood the connecting power or is it something else? <<
The elders teach it is not just a physical connection, but a spiritual connection. Just like your biological traits are stored in your DNA, your Ancestor's path is as well. The indigenous Europeans had nearly 40,000 years of uninterrupted solitude to develop a rich tapestry of ceremony, ritual, sacred sites, and oral/participatory history. There are parts of that are still inside us and the key elements expressed through sacred songs, dances, rituals, sacred sites, are still contained in the collective history of Gaia (Ama Lur to my Ancestors) - the living Earth. When we have the connection to a certain place (remember: a sense of place in integral to all indigenous spiritualities), its like we have a key to unlock these living sacred elements.
Hence, we have medicine people, shamans, seers, etc who have the special ability to unlock these living elements for the benefit of the tribes they serve. Can just anyone unlock these secrets? Hmmm.. my experience says no. That's why people who walk between the worlds at a certain level have been changed. Their spiritual self has been modified through repeated ceremony and/or certain kinds of experiences to be able to handle the forces associated with walking between the worlds and unlocking living wisdom. Why do you think so many spirit workers are a little crazy? Or as one medicine man said to me, "Do you live on the perimeter?"
>>is this literal ancestor based or can we connect with ALL the ancestors?<<
The question is reversed. Do ALL the ancestors want to connect with us, or just our literal ancestors?
During one part of my path, I had teachers who came from other cultures. I didn't understand why this was happening. I don't have blood from those ethnicities. Now that I am farther along, I can understand that these teachers were just helping me along until I was able to hear my own Ancestors. Now that I work so closely with my Ancestors, others from the Great Council don't need to drop in unless they are bringing specific messages.
I'm very grateful for these teachers. I wouldn't be where I am now without them. But that didn't mean I needed to adopt those practices or culture. My feeling is many people of Euro-heritage are confused when things like this happen. They take it too literally. And since we have lost so much of our tribal culture and we have so few Euro-tribal teachers, we don't usually get good explanations about what's happening. If we were rooted more in the old ways, we would have ways of sorting these things out so we didn't get quite so confused or diverted.
Hope you find this helpful.
Fri, February 24, 2006 - 3:42 PMThere's a great article in the March National Geographic about the search for our ancestors and where they came from, based on DNA. They trace every race back to Africa. "The Greatest Journey Ever Told: The Trail of our DNA." It also has an interesting article on modern Celts with this quote: ". . .judging by the number of visitors from afar seeking out the local sacred sites, Celts must be everywhere. 'I believe if you feel Celtic. . . you become Celtic.'"
Unsu...Wed, February 22, 2006 - 12:58 PMMaybe you should clarify what you mean by "Leave the power strugles alone".
I am all for not participating in power strugles of the ego, and control...however, I do not condone the rape of our mother earth, and I am moved out of compassion for others (WIthout feelings of fear or hate) to take action, even disruptive action should it be needed to protect what I care for.
Wed, February 22, 2006 - 10:35 PMDivine genetics, Spirit DNA,
we all possess the Means,
the Law of One,
is it really any wonder why seperate groups of individuals become aware of the same Light at tyhe end of the tunnel-
would there be religeon without Zion,
eye dream of the days upon Earth when we all share One Reality,
the Days in between the Times of memory loss,
the Great equinox a measure of Time Space-
Unsu...Fri, February 24, 2006 - 4:46 PMHere's some from Scotlands finest (The Incredible String Band's "The Big Huge")...
The dust of the rivers does murmur and weep
Hard and sharp laughter that cuts to the bone
Ah, but ever face within your face does show
Going gladly now to give himself his own
And twelve yellow willows shall fellow the shallows
Small waves and thunder be my pillow
Upon the gleaming water two swans that swim
And every place shall be my native home
The east gate like a fortress dissolve it away
The west gate like a prison O come break it down
Island I remember living here
Wandering beneath the empty skies
In time her hair grew long and swept the ground
And seven blackbirds carried it out behind
It bore the holy imprint of her mind
As green-foot slow she moved among the seasons
The great man, the great man, historians his memory
Artists his senses, thinkers his brain
Labourers his growth
Explorers his limbs
And soldiers his death each second
And mystics his rebirth each second
Businessmen his nervous system
No-hustle men his stomach
Astrologers his balance
Lovers his loins
His skin it is all patchy
But soon will reach one glowing hue
God is his soul
Infinity his goal
The mystery his source
And civilisation he leaves behind
Opinions are his fingernails
All this world is but a play
Be thou the joyful player
All this world is but a play
Be thou the joyful player
The wanderer no sense does make
His eyes being tied in the true love's knot
The trees perceive his soul
Do not detain him long
Dear little animal dark-eyed and small
Caring for your fur with pointed paws
This hawk of truth is swift and flies with a still cry
A small sweetmeat to the eyes of night
O dandelion be thou thine
Reflecting the sun in sexual glory
In every-changing tongues
The every-changing story
The book, man, bird, woman, serpent, sea, sun
Blessed O blessed are they of the air
Your eyes are the eyes
Of the glad land
Ye twelve that will enter the seasons
The great ship, the ship of the world
Long time sailing
Mariners, mariners, gather your skills
The great ship, the ship of the world
Long time sailing
Mariners, mariners, gather your skills
Jesus and Hitler and Richard the Lion Heart
Three kings and Moses and Queen Cleopatra
The Cobbler, the maiden
The mender and the maker
The sickener and the twitcher
And the glad undertaker
The shepherd of willows
The harper and the archer
All sat down in one boat together
Troubled voyage in calm weather.
All this world is but a play
Be thou the joyful player
All this world is but a play…..
Fri, February 24, 2006 - 6:49 PM>.Are you watching the news?
No I can't watch that crap, so I come to 2012 to find our what i need to know ;)
I do read Time and yahoo news for some clips of what is going on though.
So you guys got to keep me updated ;)
Unsu...Sat, February 25, 2006 - 1:14 AMSometimes the "nightly news" reminds me of a poorly written sitcom. I enjoy aspects of my local news. I trust my world news by word of mouth with the intelligent people I know. Some are other tribe members, some are my friends here in the city. I do read BBC news for their science and nature. As long as you know your source, and have a strong intuition, then you know the truth. I just use my gut instinct. I spend enough time alone each day to contemplate things in my many spiritual practices. I say distract yourself with silence and meditation as much as you can. Silence has all the answers. Love and light, Colleen
Sun, February 26, 2006 - 7:45 AMWonderful discussion ! Was'nt it Terrance McKenna who coined the term "Archaic Revival"?His term for the "New Age Movement . As I was reading these posts, I came across the following link which I found quite provocative and intriguing: www.etheric.com/LaViolette/Predict.html