Advertisement
There's a story in today's Washington Post about the pyramid scheme unfolding in Bosnia:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...49.html
What they neglected to mention is that the discoverer of the "pyramid" is also the author of an online book about the ancient Maya:
www.alternativnahistorija.com/WM.htm
Published on a website for "alternative history," it has a section entitled "The Maya between Lemuria and theYear 2012" www.alternativnahistorija.com/WM.htm#24 in which he writes:
"The Maya inherited knowledge from their ancestors at Atlantis and Lemuria (Mu). Cities were planned and built around the main square toward which the pyramids and temples were turned. They communicated with the movement of the Sun and the paths of other heavenly bodies.
"The Maya explained that their cities were arranged 'based on the pattern of the gods who began with the world.'
"Many cultures around the world, from India, Sumeria, Egypt, Peru, the Indians of North and Central America, the Inca and the Maya, call themselves the 'Children of the Sun' or the 'children of light.' Their ancestors, the civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria, erected the first temples on energy potent point of the Planet. Their most important function was to serve as a gateway to other worlds and dimensions.
"The pyramids erected on these energy potent locations enabled the Maya to be closer to the heavens and to other levels of consciousness.
"As we approach December 21, 2012 and the end of the significant 5200-years cycle in the Mayan calendar, as well as the completion of the longer cycle of 26,000 years we should ask ourselves about the changes foreseen by the Maya."
The section and the book conclude with a photo of the author being nuzzled by a dolphin.
Needless to say, this Houston businessman's "pyramid" discovery is being dismissed by mainstream archaeologists. What the hell do they know, anyway?
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...49.html
What they neglected to mention is that the discoverer of the "pyramid" is also the author of an online book about the ancient Maya:
www.alternativnahistorija.com/WM.htm
Published on a website for "alternative history," it has a section entitled "The Maya between Lemuria and theYear 2012" www.alternativnahistorija.com/WM.htm#24 in which he writes:
"The Maya inherited knowledge from their ancestors at Atlantis and Lemuria (Mu). Cities were planned and built around the main square toward which the pyramids and temples were turned. They communicated with the movement of the Sun and the paths of other heavenly bodies.
"The Maya explained that their cities were arranged 'based on the pattern of the gods who began with the world.'
"Many cultures around the world, from India, Sumeria, Egypt, Peru, the Indians of North and Central America, the Inca and the Maya, call themselves the 'Children of the Sun' or the 'children of light.' Their ancestors, the civilizations of Atlantis and Lemuria, erected the first temples on energy potent point of the Planet. Their most important function was to serve as a gateway to other worlds and dimensions.
"The pyramids erected on these energy potent locations enabled the Maya to be closer to the heavens and to other levels of consciousness.
"As we approach December 21, 2012 and the end of the significant 5200-years cycle in the Mayan calendar, as well as the completion of the longer cycle of 26,000 years we should ask ourselves about the changes foreseen by the Maya."
The section and the book conclude with a photo of the author being nuzzled by a dolphin.
Needless to say, this Houston businessman's "pyramid" discovery is being dismissed by mainstream archaeologists. What the hell do they know, anyway?
posted by:
|
Advertisement
Advertisement
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, May 8, 2006 - 12:24 PMso i'm a little confused about your opinion Hoopes.
what is your opinion?
could this be for real?
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, May 8, 2006 - 3:09 PMYou obviously didn't catch my subtle irony! No, this could not possibly be for real. The fact that anyone is even considering it could be is what's astounding to me. Archaeology magazine was among the first to comment on this:
www.archaeology.org/online/f...osmanagic
Osmanagic's book on the Maya resurrects a whole rack of theories that were discredited over a century ago, including those of Brasseur de Bourbourg and Augustus Le Plongeon about the "lost continent" of Atlantis. His concept of "children of the sun" hauls out a theory published by William Perry and Grafton Eliot Smith in a book of the same name published in 1923, in which they claimed that all ancient civilizations could be traced to roots in Egypt (they can't).
This stuff is no more believable than six-day Creationism. Given all the attention the Bosnian pyramids are getting, I'm surprised the press hasn't devoted more attention to the various quests to find Noah's Ark on Mt. Ararat. Come to think of it, when Osmanagic's pyramids have faded from public attention, perhaps that would be a good time to announce that Noah's Ark has finally been discovered.
Either that or a Bigfoot nursing an injured alien in the burned-out shell of a crashed UFO. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, May 8, 2006 - 11:07 PMwoah thats a big hill
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, May 8, 2006 - 11:08 PMwhy is there an emphasis on that he is a business man? a lot of men are business men.. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, May 9, 2006 - 4:48 PMWell, for one thing, it seems pretty clear that his business motivations have a higher priority than his scholarship! He is a whiz at marketing fantasy, entertainment, and tourism, but fails miserably when it comes to writing about or practicing archaeology.
It's the relevant identity. He is NOT an archaeologist.
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, May 9, 2006 - 5:46 AMHoopes,
Are there sites that you would not mind posting that would - from your point of view - provide a more 'factual' base for understanding and dealing with 2012.
My first introduction of this course of thought comes from Ian Lundgold and Dr. Callanhan. What I took from them, is that, something is there to be looked at, but I just didnt feel they where 'grounded' (atleast Ian didnt seem to be).
And please dont be put off by my other post. I have my own reason for my antics. I believe in our short comments, I have extended my upmost respect - because I value and trust your insite. I will continue to do so. Thank you.
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, May 9, 2006 - 5:00 PMSure! There are lots of good sites with factual information about the ancient Maya. However, don't be surprised if the professional archaeologists are not especially interested in 2012. They don't follow astrology much, either.
For Maya archaeology:
www.mesoweb.com
www.famsi.org
For the calendar:
www.xoc.net/maya/default.asp
www.pauahtun.org/Calendar/tools.html
For understanding and "dealing with" 2012, I'm afraid you're going to have to wade through a LOT of stuff. The biggest assortment of information and links I know is Geoff Stray's page:
www.diagnosis2012.co.uk
My own, honest opinion: Just because Y2K didn't pan out into a global software crisis (or religious Apocalypse) doesn't mean the buildup didn't totally transform the Internet, produce a very real bubble in the dotcom industry, and change the world as we know it. I consider 2012 to be a kind of spiritual Y2K. Never underestimate the power of faith or the reality of self-fulfilling prophecy!
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, May 9, 2006 - 5:33 PMLet me also say, in my opinion, John Major Jenkins has a lot more credibility than either Arguelles or Calleman:
alignment2012.com
He doesn't work in a traditional academic vein, but John has been working on this issue for a long time. From what I've seen he is diligent in getting things as correct as possible without indulging in a lot of speculative hocus pocus (although he does make a living selling books and lectures to a predominantly New Age audience). -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, May 9, 2006 - 8:34 PMthis is great stuff.. thanks Hoopes!
you seem to have read much of the material published by all three of these mayanologists. what kind of truth percentage rating might you give each?
i'd love to hear your thoughts and believe that you can hear a distinct ring that sounds with truth. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 10:41 AMThanks for all the links Hoopes.
>>without indulging in a lot of speculative hocus pocus (although he does make a living selling books and lectures to a predominantly New Age audience).
Is there something wrong with that? I would love to sell books and get to travel around sharing what I have. When people come together in like minded energy and it is strongly aimed at spiritually evolving, or however you want to put it, it's powerful.
I'm usually so inspired after going to a workshop. Its like the energy in the room leaves you with a buzz. I've only grown more from workshops... -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 2:33 PMThere is nothing wrong with it so long as it's not done in a way that's exploitative or harmful. Everyone has to make a living. One way to do that is by selling entertainment, fantasy, hope, and inspiration. Is something wrong with Billy Graham? Pat Robertson? Sun Myung Moon? Personally, I feel a lot better about what New Age shamans are selling than evangelical preachers because the shamans usually pay taxes on their revenue.
What's important is to understand what you're paying for and to realize that you're spending money on spiritual fulfillment, fiction, art, and imagination, not science. Faith is faith, whether it's coming from the Spiritual Left or the Religious Right. The workshops that do it for you might have the opposite effect on a fundamentalist Christian. However, whether at an ashram or a revival meeting, it's still spirituality, not science, and no one has a monopoly on the truth.
I do think significant damage is done when people make a living from telling people, under false pretenses, that science and scientists are bad, wrong, and the root of all evil. I don't have much tolerance for Creationists or starry eyed alien abductees who insist that they know the "truth." If your child is dying from leukemia, you're free to see a shaman if you like, but you're being irresponsible if you don't also consult a pediatrician and an oncologist. There is an abundance of evidence to indicate that it's modern medicine that will increase that kid's chances of survival (even though songs, prayers, tobacco smoke, and the like may help with the psychological aspects of healing).
The problem is when fame and/or the profit motive become the principal motivation. None of us is immune to the temptation of the almighty dollar. There is a reason why monks and nuns take vows of poverty. No one with bills to pay will act in a truly altruistic fashion. The prospect of making a lot of money can have a significant effect on good judgment. In the worst cases, it can lead to a dehumanization of people and a cynical attitude towards "customers" and "clients." "You won't *believe* how much she paid for THAT."
There is a lot of dissatisfaction in academia these days with students who are applying a strictly consumer model to higher education. Most of us who teach them didn't become academics so we could sell a product, but so we could impart a love for learning and a desire to increase knowledge. (At least that's true for me.)
I always liked the traditional notion of master and apprentice, in which the master refuses to even speak with a prospective apprentice until after multiple requests. He then takes them on only reluctantly, and (significantly) without being paid to do it. I'm skeptical that it's possible to write a check for any deep or valuable kind of knowledge. Wisdom takes a lot of work and experience. My own experience is that once you have it, it's difficult not to feel compelled to share it for free. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 3:05 PMWhere's your allegiance Hoopes?
Science or Pseudo Science
Spiritual or Religious
Truth or Fiction
Right or Wrong
Harmful or Helpful
You might even see the same path from either choice, in any case, it's the 'choice' itself and not the side or position that equals faith. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 7:59 AMSo I have to choose sides? Who's defining what they are?
One person's science is another person's religion.
One person's truth is another person's lies.
One person's right is another person's wrong.
One person's help is another person's harm.
One person's faith is another person's delusion.
These have all changed through time, space, culture, and perspective. Each is inextricably bound up in its own contexts, both narrow and broad.
Personally, I'm skeptical that anything is timeless or absolute. However, the incredibly complex and carefully engineered computer that I'm using, along with the worldwide networks that permit you to read these words, tell me that science produces results I can see, touch, and use.
I'm sure this is a fact that is obvious to anyone reading this. That is, unless you're dreaming it... -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 11:30 AMNot choosing a side is a choice. The definition is a choice.
Heh, how do you know I exist or all of this is simply a product of our own consciousness? I think science is still trying to tackle that one.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 12:06 PMActually
www.bosnianpyramid.com/
I've been interested in this story since around April 20th when I first posted about it in my blog.
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 12:13 PMIf the Bosnian Pyramids are a hoax then so should the Chinese Pyramids, it's funny that as long as they remain mounds of dirt, people don't really care.... but if you start digging and poking around.... look at all the chatter and denial that pops up... something is cuasing people to think (gasp) or reconsider what we know and understand.
I say let them dig
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_pyramids -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 2:46 PMWhy should the Bosnian pyramids have *anything* to do with the Chinese pyramids?
They may have laughed at Galileo, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Chatter and denial doesn't mean the experts don't know what they're talking about. The fact is that Osmanagic's inexpert digging may not only erase any evidence that could be used to discern fiction from fact, but he may also wind up destroying valuable Neolithic and Medieval remains. The fact that he wrote a book about the "Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun," (and also took out a trademark on the name) before the fieldwork was underway should make you ask whether there is any legitimacy to this research at all.
Are you as open-minded to "creation science"? What about Dr. Dino and his Dinosaur Adventure Land? There's also a lot of chatter and denial about that, too. Does that mean the scientists are wrong about evolution?
www.drdino.com
www.dinosauradventureland.com
Shouldn't we judge the Bosnian pyramids by the same standards that we use to evaluate "intelligent design" and all that? The New Age movement has evangelicals, too...
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 3:34 PMYou making this all about 1 guy (see: Osmanagic) seems pretty ridiculous given the fact there's many more involved here:
Mrs Grace Fegan, a leading Irish archaeologist, Mr Royce Richards, an experienced archaeologist from Australia, as well as archaeologists who graduated from the University of Insbruck (Austria), Glasgow (Scotland) and Ljubljana (Slovenia).
The international team will be joined by a Bosnian team of young archaeologists including Mr Sead Pilav, who graduated in Sweden, Ms Silvana Čobanov (graduated from Zadar University, Croatia) and Mr Saša Janković (graduated from Department of Archaeology, the Univeristy of Belgrade, Serbia and Montenegro).
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 8:09 AMOkay, if you don't want this to be about Osmanagic, provide me with information about what *any* of these other people have to say.
What's the basis of your claim that Royce Richards is an experienced archaeologist? (I googled him and can't find reference to anything other than articles about the pyramids.) Who are these other archaeologists with the degrees you mention? What are their specific qualifications? What have *they* said about the project's results?
Many more involved? Do you have any idea how many people on this planet subscribe to pseudoscientific ideas? What about all of the people who support the theory of a six-day Creation and the Great Flood of Noah? What about all of the millions of Christian fundamentalists? Could so many people, including highly educated and intelligent scholars, be completely wrong? -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 8:13 AMJust check out the website of the anti-evolution, pro-intelligent design Discovery Institute:
www.discovery.org
Look at their long list of fellows:
www.discovery.org/fellows
Could all of these people really be mistaken? -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 11:39 AMAre you saying something like:
absence of evidence is evidence of absence
??
I'm not sure why your focus is turning towards religious beliefs?
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 11:32 AMI did find information about Royce Richards, he's got credentials, I'll see if I can find them again, it wasn't easy and I should have bookmarked it.
Let's not make this about anything than what this topic is.... Bosnian Pyramids. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 11:49 AMoops... and 2012
that's pretty significant actually, sorry. ;)
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Sun, May 21, 2006 - 9:14 AMOk, John asked you about Royce Richards (or Richard Royce, depending upon the website you read). I'm telling you that the statement about Grace Fegan was misleading, as I always thought it must be.
allaboutbosnianpyram.blogger.ba/Grace Fegan: Questions regarding Bosnian pyramid
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 20:17:46 +0100 (BST) Subject: Re: Questions regarding Bosnian pyramid
Dear (*izbrisano*) Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify, once more, my position with regard to this project. I have been a professional archaeologist since 1998 and am currently working for a private consultancy in Ireland. In the course of considering summer volunteer positions on various European excavations I contacted, among others, Mr Osmanagich. I found his contact details on the Archaeological Institute of America website.
Mr Osmanagich later replied that he may be in a position to offer me a paid staff position, requiring my presence on site for up to six months. I informed him that I would need to consider this very carefully as I am in full-time employment and would find it difficult to take such extended leave. Mr Osmanagich said he would contact me with a definitive offer and also forwarded some information regarding the site.
The information came in the form of two reports, one was a 'geophysical survey report' (it was unlike any geophysical report I had ever seen) and the other was a 'geological report' (ditto). Having looked through this information it became clear that this project was dubious at best. I did some searching on the web and realised that Mr Osmanagich had no affiliations to any academic body, and was not a qualified archaeologist.
My mistake at this point was not emailing him immediately to inform him that I would not be taking part.
Before I knew it an article had appeared in an Irish newspaper, stating that I was going to be taking part in this Bosnian pyramid project. The article stated that I had excavated Newgrange and described me as an 'eminent Irish archaeologist'. Just to clear things up – Newgrange had been excavated to a satisfactory degree before I had even graduated from my B.A., and although I'm doing well in my career at the moment, I would certainly not describe myself as eminent (at best, I would like to think that my eminence is imminent, he he).
I also received phone calls from two British journalists enquiring as to the nature of my involvement in the project. These gentlemen were kind enough to inform me that I was listed on the project website as being one of the 'foreign experts' taking part. When I logged on to the website I found that I was listed as Senior Archaeologist, Kilkenny (I am the senior archaeologist for the firm in which I work, but not for the entire county of Kilkenny!). Most worrying of all was a link through which people could supposedly contact me. When I clicked on it an email address came up of which I had no previous knowledge and to which I had no access.
Needless to say, I found this pretty unsettling. Mr Osmanagich used my name in connection with his project when he had no right to do so. He also seems to have made every attempt to make me into something that I am not. In addition he potentially misled those who visited the website that they could contact me, and that whatever responses they would receive would be from me.
With regard to the excavations taking place on the 'Bosnian yramid' site, I would be very surprised if at the end of the season Mr Osmanagich throws up his hands having failed to find definitive evidence supporting his argument. No matter what is there he will find what he is looking for. That is what happens when a site is not excavated by archaeologists, but glory hunters.
Kindest Regards Grace Fegan
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 8:28 AMNot to belabor the issue, but my basic point is this:
The claims of the Spiritual Left (ta.k.a. he New Age movement) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_age should be subjected to the same level as those of the Religious Right en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_right.
Anything short of that is hypocrisy.
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 11:47 AM"should be subjected to the same level"
Should be subjected to the same level .... what level is that? There seems to be some sort of piece missing here that I'm not getting.
Are you saying that those that follow new age ideas should also follow the traditional religious ideals? I'd like to see the examples of what specifically contradicts the other.... perhaps a new thread should be devoted to this discussion. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 17, 2006 - 5:30 PMSorry, I left a couple of key words out.
That should read "should be subjected to the same level of scrutiny." However, by this I don't mean to imply that every wild claim should occupy the same time, effort, and expense of investigation as reasonable scientific hypotheses.
Occam's Razor, "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate," is a useful tool for trimming the fringe:
skepdic.com/occam.html
-
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 17, 2006 - 5:25 PMHere's another story on the conflicting interpretations, from Monday's New York Times:
tinyurl.com/zmejt
If the Bosnian people want it to be a pyramid, should it be a pyramid?
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, May 17, 2006 - 9:36 PMThe plot thickens:
Egyptian backs Bosnian pyramid claim
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12837694/
What's the value of an "expert" opinion?
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Sun, May 21, 2006 - 10:51 AMIs there substantial fact that these pyramids were really found? I would love to see some photos or something....
Peace to all* -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Sun, May 21, 2006 - 5:28 PMAs the late Ronald Reagan once said, "Facts are silly things."
www.bosnianpyramid.com
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_pyramid
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 4:42 PM -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 5:30 PMLet me also say, in my opinion, John Major Jenkins has a lot more credibility than either Arguelles or Calleman:
alignment2012.com
He doesn't work in a traditional academic vein, but John has been working on this issue for a long time. From what I've seen he is diligent in getting things as correct as possible without indulging in a lot of speculative hocus pocus (although he does make a living selling books and lectures to a predominantly New Age audience).
im so glad you posted this i have read his work along with Maurice Cottrell and Adrian G. Gilbert
i have alist of books on my profile i also read Atlantis the Andes Solution
i love those books anyways thanks for mentioning this ............ -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 7:05 PMwhere does Dr. Callaman stand in relationship to Arguelles...and John Major Jenkins.
Further there is 3 hrs of JMJ on google video...lecture on 2012.
I dont want to waste my time reading 40 different accounts or opinoins of 2012...I would like the get three points of view and then my own...any recommendations/comments:
Dr. Callaman/Arguelles/John Jenkins/Geoff? I dont think I will go with Arguelles. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 7:33 PMI agree with John Hoopes on his premise concerning New Age thinking and in particular the book reference he makes: “Archaeological Fantasies: How Pseudoarchaeology Misrepresents the Past and Misleads the Public, edited by Garrett G. Fagan (Routledge 2006).”
www.amazon.com/gp/product/0415305934
I would like to quote from the just republished book A Skeleton Key to Finnegans Wake by Joseph Campbell and Henry Morton Robinson. This short passage deals with just the title of the James Joyce book.
www.amazon.com/gp/product...883-6934530
“…But there is more, much more to the story. Finnegan the hod carrier is first idedentifable with Finn MacCool, captain for two hundred years of Ireland’s warrior-heroes, and most famous of Dublin’s early giants. Finn typlifies all heroes- Thor, Prometheus, Osiris, Christ, the Buddha- in whose life and through whose inspiration the race lives. It is by Finn’s coming again (Finn-again)- in other words, by the reappearence of the hero- that strength and hope are provided for mankind.”
Knowledge comes from many avenues and places; fiction should not be diregarded when placed next to non-fiction. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 8:20 PMSidecross writes: "Knowledge comes from many avenues and places; fiction should not be diregarded when placed next to non-fiction."
I think he's right on the money with this one. Dan Brown's "Da Vinci Code" brought far more attention to revisionist Biblical history than a whole shelf full of non-fiction books on early Christianity.
Speaking of fiction, I'm currently reading the novel "Blinding Light" by Paul Theroux:
www.amazon.com/gp/product/0618711961
It's about a writer who goes on a trip to the Ecuadorian rainforest in search of an entheogenic fix for his writer's block.
"The drug, once found, heightens both his powers of perception and his libido, but it also leaves him with an unfortunate side effect: periodic blindness. Unable to resist the insights that enable him to write again, Steadman spends the next year of his life in thrall to his psychedelic muse and his erotic fantasies, with consequences that are both ecstatic and disastrous."
I'm finding it to be an intriguing parable for other psychonauts. Plus, it's got lots more sex than "2012".
By the way, the mention of Finnegan brings up a critical leitmotif that was expounded upon by Mircea Eliade, the same megascholar of "archaic" religions who literally wrote THE book on shamanism. It's called "The Myth of the Eternal Return."
www.amazon.com/gp/product/0691123500
This is a *very* important piece of (non-fiction) work, and one that resonates especially well with 2012.
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 7:52 AMHas anyone else read Karen Armstrong’s new book The Great Transformation: The Beginnings of our Religious Traditions?
The book covers the time between 1600 BCE to about 200 BCE. I have found the book very helpful in placing a number of facts in a sequence that I only vaguely knew. -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 8:38 AMI haven't read it yet, but Karen Armstrong is an amazing scholar.
For another fascinating take on the beginnings of religious traditions, I recommend Jon Krakauer's "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith":
www.amazon.com/gp/product/1400032806
His focus is on the Mormon Church, but the book left me wondering whether Joseph Smith isn't just a recent example of a pattern manifest in earlier prophets and founders of other world religions.
-
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 12, 2006 - 8:07 PMIf you want three points of view and then your own, I'd go for John Major Jenkins, Geoff Stray and, um, some third guy... -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 3:09 PMBosnia "Pyramid" Is Not Human-Made, U.K. Expert Says
Sean Markey
for National Geographic News
June 13, 2006
A war of words continues to rage over the alleged discovery of an ancient pyramid in Bosnia.
Bosnian-American pyramid buff Semir "Sam" Osmanagic claims a four-sided hill in the town of Visoko is Europe's first known pyramid, larger than any ever built in Egypt.
But in the latest salvo in this battle, the president of the European Association of Archaeologists said on Friday that he had visited the 700-foot (213-meter) hill and saw no evidence that it was human-made.
Speaking at a press conference in Sarajevo, Anthony Harding told reporters the pyramid-shaped hill was a natural phenomenon.
"My opinion and the opinion of my colleagues is what we saw was entirely geological in nature," the AFP news agency quoted him as saying.
"Further work of the same kind would simply produce the same results. I don't think it would change any view about what the nature of the hill is," he said.
Harding, an archaeology professor at England's University of Exeter, visited Visoko, 18 miles (30 kilometers) from Sarajevo, on Thursday.
European Pyramid?
In April 2006 the Houston-based Osmanagic and a mostly volunteer crew began limited excavations in the area and drilled exploratory wells.
The team uncovered what they describe as large stone blocks shaped by human hands and a network of tunnels fronted by a wide, paved entranceway.
Osmanagic has speculated that Illyrians—ancient ancestors of today's Albanians—could have built the alleged pyramid perhaps as early as 12,000 years ago during the last ice age.
Last month Osmanagic told National Geographic News that he was "100 percent convinced" that the pyramid was real.
Those claims have drawn near unanimous contempt from professional archaeologists.
Harding, an expert on Bronze Age Europe, has dismissed Osmanagic's theories as "wacky" and "absurd."
Balkan prehistory expert Curtis Runnels, an archaeologist at Boston University and editor of the Journal of Field Archaeology, joins the chorus of skeptics.
"Mr. Osmangic offers no concrete physical evidence to support his claims, despite the fact that they are fantastic," he said.
"[T]he area was in fact occupied by Upper Paleolithic hunter-gatherers with a Stone Age technology sufficient for building fires, tents, and simple hunting implements like bows and arrows."
"They were not pyramid builders."
Recent Twist
In another recent twist, wire reports quoted Aly Abd Alla Barakat, a geologist with the Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority.
Barakat, who visited the hill at the behest of Osmanagic's team, told the Associated Press late last week, "My opinion is that this is a type of pyramid, probably a primitive pyramid."
To the AFP, he said: "The white stuff I found between the blocks could be a glue. It is very similar to that we have found in the Giza pyramids."
Critics remain unswayed, and some have questioned Barakat's expertise.
Of the alleged Bosnian pyramid, the European Association of Archaeology's Harding said, "You'd be surprised how many natural stone formations can look as if they are man-made."
news.nationalgeographic.com/news....html -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 4:33 PMI'll put money on it. Who's in? -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 8:19 PMi'm in if you're in. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 7:21 AMThe pyramid is a natural hill. Double or nothing.
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 13, 2006 - 8:13 PMCould be dis-information.... let them dig -
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 9:09 AMlooking forward to the results of the excavation.... i'm not convinced *anything* is real in this world anymore. if pyramids are suddenly discovered and confirmed in bosnia or british columbia, nothing would surprise me. i think the real nature of our physical reality is very much unknown. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, June 14, 2006 - 9:51 AM"i'm not convinced *anything* is real in this world anymore."
You're not alone.
Anthropologists and historians have long known that claims of witchcraft and supernatural activity in traditional societies are directly correlated with periods of social stress. For a good book about this, see:
Witchcraft, Sorcery, Rumors and Gossip, by Pamela Stewart and Andrew Strathern
www.amazon.com/gp/product/052100473X
I think something similar is happening now, largely as the result of widespread distrust of the U.S. government because of the string of lies that have come from the Bush Administration, the war in Iraq, increasing gaps between the extremely wealthy and extremely poor, the educated and the ignorant, and global crises in the climate, economy, politics, etc.
Unfortunately, there's also extensive documentation that this type of thinking frequently leads to witch hunts, rebellions, and episodes of extreme violence. The only solution is to reduce or eliminate the sources of stress. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Fri, June 16, 2006 - 10:52 PM
Excellent tapping on the issue, Hoopes.
The modern witch hunting is a relevant phenomenon in media; anyone coming up with extraordinary ideas will burn alive on the Great Public Theatre of Illusion.
Another aspect just for fun:
www.amorphousandrogynous.com/
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, June 22, 2006 - 8:32 PMThe pyramid thing seems to be working for the Bosnians:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml
"Last week Mr Osmanagic - who has written books on subjects as diverse as out-of-body experiences and the Freemasons - pulled off another triumph as Unesco pledged to send a team of archaeologists to examine and help to excavate the site.
"But the chief of Unesco's culture section, Marie-Paule Roudil, said there was more to Bosnia's pyramids than mere archaeology.
"Unesco has already demonstrated, during the implementation of its activities in Bosnia and Herzegovina, willingness to support all positive and reconciliation activities, aimed at increasing… mutual understanding and cultural co-operation."
Question is, will it work for anyone else?
Osmanagic says, "'We have brought the first good news here in a long time and only conservative and narrow-minded scientists are unable to recognise that. Local archaeologists are mostly driven by envy and the international ones don't want to accept the fact that civilisation spread from here to them and not the other way around."
I guess we should recognize that we're Bosnians, too.
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 10:33 AMThere's a thorough and well-writtten article about the Bosnian pyramids in the latest (July/August) issue of Archaeology magazine:
www.archaeology.org/0607/abs...snia.html
However, it was submitted before the latest (June 14) update on their website:
www.archaeology.org/online/f...date.html -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 11:14 AMHoopes I find your reactions to be entertaining but again naive. Have you read Dr. Robert Schoch's book "Voyage of the Pyramid Builders"?
I agree that John Major Jenkins is the best and I have corresponded with him but keep in mind that Jenkins cites Oliver L. Reiser.
Witchcraft is not just equivalent to the spread of gossip. Witchcraft is not just some psychological state of confusion.
Have you read Paul Stoller's "In the shadow of Sorcery" -- you like anthropology and study sorcery. Do you dismiss Stollers work like I.M. Lewis dismissed it?
Nandor Fodor is very similar to I.M. Lewis in the sense that both focus on psychological projection and the sociological factors (women protesting patriarchy).
But Fodor recognized that even though someone like Blavatsky might manifest her ectoplasm after hiding it in her genitalia that doesn't mean all seances were corrupt.
Physics professor Mike Shallis' book "On Time" -- written while he taught at Oxford -- is an excellent source on this.
Shallis focuses on Rudolf Steiner (a favorite of Daniel) and how electromagnetic pollution has affected macro quantum chaos effects -- the "macro heisenberg effect."
These battles between the various Mayan calendar interpretations are resolved by macro quantum chaos which has concluded that the computers are in control.
Math is a conspiracy -- logarithmic statistics is inherently against witchcraft.
Anyway a huge pyramid-type hill aligned with the compass seems to me prima facie evidence for a man-made structure -- at least its investigation.
I agree with you that the man seems to be motivated by glitz although it takes a lot of primary investment just to do this research for those who are wild thinkers.
Just read the recent deep sea gold cache battle featured in Fortune magazine. I read that book by Gary Kinder -- a best-seller about a brilliant engineer doing innovative exploration at 8000 feet below surface. His investors are pissed!! Tommy Thompson is the name of that engineer. It's a wild book -- 1998.
Robert Schoch's work would support the fact that "stone age" type village-states were probably doing a lot more with megalith ritual power than we realize.
What about that discovery of the huge sunken land in the Pacific -- that's the latest argument for Atlantis. Then there's all that sunken stuff of India. Graham Hancock has a lot on this.
Professor William Calvin's "Who Stole the Moon?" is another good source on this.
As far as shennigans in archaeology -- who really gives a shit! haha. Have you read that recent book on how the Crete archaeologist was a big scam.
Nothing like faked bare-chested matrilineal Crete goddesses to catch a fetching dollar in the market place.
Troy! Well why did the Romans steal the magnetic meteorite black Cosmic Mother worship of Troy -- transfering it into Athena (in France) becoming Mary.
Which is why your bet is inherently bunk. Dollar is based on logarithmic counting -- not Number as complimentary opposites.
Money is a total lie steming from alchemical gold-based Freemasonic imperialism.
Just read Sterling Seagrave's new book "Gold Warriors" -- or better yet consider that Mike Ruppert just had his copvcia.com office broken into by the CIA-Money Laundering assassins.
I just read professor Paul Avrich's "The Russian Anarchists" (Princeton U Press)
The "spiritual left" of Russia was fucking gunned down machine-gun style.
Ok. You jiggy? The spiritual left wasn't trying to prove anything. They just refused to serve in the Red Army.
The whole "technological revolution" in Russia -- they didn't even have iron plows in the 1920s!! -- is really a tragic example of materialistic Left "progress."
But denial about the ecological crisis is deep.
There is no "pure" science and never has been. Guess what Karl Popper -- 1999 Rutledge -- made his last stance a big backing on Kepler as the pre-cursor to Schrodinger's wave-equation. Popper stated that "resonance governs science."
Bring that one up with the whole stupid "rationalist" sceptic scene.
I call it "the Alchemy of DeNile"
Oliver L. Reiser my friend -- the Actual Matrix Plan.
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 11:21 AM
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 7:01 PM"I find your reactions to be entertaining but again naive. Have you read Dr. Robert Schoch's book 'Voyage of the Pyramid Builders'?
The feeling is mutual, Drew. Did you know Schoch is a geologist, not an archaeologist? You may find this to be an enlightening review:
www.thehallofmaat.com/article79.html
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 9:34 PMHoopes response basically states:
No I haven't read it, in fact I can't even fathom the relationship between a geologist and a archaeologist, besides, someone else’s opinion on the book is more important than my own.
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Mon, June 26, 2006 - 11:01 PM"There is no "pure" science and never has been."
exactly what I've beren trying to say. There is a lot of "pseudo" in "mainstream-academia-approved"-Science as well.......seems rather obvious....where the "Thought Police" of Academia says what is "real" and what is"pseudo", twisting the truth based on "offical culture" and the Conditioning/Brainwashing of the Sheeple.
has anyone read "The Secret History of the World"?
www.qfgpublishing.com/product_info.php
from the publisher:
Once you begin to realize that reality is far stranger than fiction, you find yourself in a precarious world of half truths, conspiracy theorists, and snobbish historians telling you what to think and why.
Now that you are fed up with all of the twisted reasoning, and sometimes outright fabrication of human history, The Secret History of the World appears, an action packed 800+ pages of humorous and insightful research into the history of the world that has been shielded by the movers and shakers of Religions and Governments since time immemorial.
Follow Laura Knight-Jadczyk down the rabbit hole, exploring the bumpy twists and turns of the past in this tour de force of truth seeking which picks up where Fulcanelli left off and blasts through the muddy waters of modern historical cock and bull pseudo-science.
Pdf -file of Table of Contents, Index, Bibliography
www.qfgpublishing.com/downloa...mple.pdf
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 7:57 AMPlease don't put words in my mouth. No, I haven't read Schoch's book. I haven't read millions of other books, either. One of the strategies of pseudoscientists for decades has been to flood the market with rehashed and repackaged theories that are repeated over and over again ad nauseam with no compelling new evidence. Why in the world should scientists, most of whom are working their butts off trying to keep up with real advances in their fields, feel obliged to read every piece of crap that comes along? Why should you?
I've read quite a lot, but I haven't read everything. If I've chosen to focus on Pinchbeck and the 2012 issue rather than Schoch and pyramids, that's my perogative, right?
My comment about Schoch is precisely because I *do* know about the relationships between geologists and archaeologists. I also know about the various motivations behind the publication of all these books. If you to know about what's wrong with your car, you'd be far better off talking to a master mechanic than a used car salesman.
There is a long history of non-archaeologists inventing wild stories about the past. Ignatius Donnelly was a politician. Barry Fell was a marine biologist. Jared Diamond, who makes some good points but bugs me nonetheless, is a pathologist. Semir Osmanagic, who's exploring the Bosnian pyramids, has a background in politics and economics and runs a metal fabrication business in Houston. If your dentist had some new ideas about who built the pyramids, would you trust his judgement?
I feel no more compelled to read every new book on ancient civilizations than I do to address everything that Drew mentions. It is a huge smokescreen designed to cloud and confuse the real issues. The concept of GIGO is an old one in computer programming that also applies here: Garbage in, garbage out. -
-
Unsu...
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 9:54 AM" I also know about the various motivations behind the publication of all these books."
How do you know everyones motiavtion? What a bold statement.
"If you to know about what's wrong with your car, you'd be far better off talking to a master mechanic than a used car salesman."
Exactly...and I've found master mechanics who work independentaly, not belonging to any form of company.
"I feel no more compelled to read every new book on ancient civilizations than I do to address everything that Drew mentions. It is a huge smokescreen designed to cloud and confuse the real issues."
Well, then don't expect from me or anyone else here to read all the books/links you post as well....because I could say the same....it's all GIGO to me....no matter how much of an athority or self-acclaimed expert one in the field of mainstream Academia is, including yourself.
Question Authority (in any field)
Think for yourself (..and be aware of past conditioning and cultural/eduactional programmed bias)
"There is a long history of non-archaeologists inventing wild stories about the past"
What's up with this Title/degree-BS. Who says who is an archaeologist and who not? ( I know who...the academic Thought Police!)what?...just becasue someone who is not considered an archaeologist by academic terms, his/her research is regarded as insignificant? How do you know they are "inventing" it if you're not reading or studying their work?
One of these days, you need to come down from your horse of "self-acclaimed" authority, which kinda leans over into "I know better becasue I am a "professional" archaeologist" (which is no reason at all in my eyes)......until then all these discussions will keep going in circles.
Excuse me, if I'm being a bit direct here, but more and more I realize that you dismiss research or other individuals' work (who are not part of the folks who support "offical culture" as "policed" by the so well respected world of academai) just becuase it doesn't fit your belief sytstem, however you do not bother actually reading their work (as you state)...........so how would you know it is garabage? Because soemone else says so?...or did you come to thise conslusion after carefully researching it? No doubt that there is garbage out there. However, have you ever considered that some of your own held beliefs might be garbage?
The rabbit hole goes a bit deeper and the reason why some people have trouble accepting anyhting that is counter to what they believe in....is exactly that: Fear of admitting or acknowledging that whatever they have thought to be true for all their life, might not be true at all, wich extends int o fear of the opinions of collegues, peers, faamily, friends...to keep this so-hard-fought-over "status" or "position".
I know how it is with these beliefs, becasue I had beliefs that I defended at any cost becasue they were "threatening" my identity....until I had no choice to let them go and not care at alll what otheres think about me, not identifying myself with any group (or institutions)...............
So I may refer to Bill Hicks' quote again:" Youre beliefs are just that...they are nothing...that's how you were taught and raised....that doesn't make them real.............anything you learned is in fact just learned and not necessarliy true" (yes, even in the field of "professional" archaelogy).
"It is a huge smokescreen designed to cloud and confuse the real issues."
Hmmmm......a very good description of "offical" culture as portrayed by the world of academia. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 4:12 PM> "I also know about the various motivations behind the publication of all these books."
> How do you know everyones motiavtion? What a bold statement.
Read my lips, Bernhard: "I also know a-b-o-u-t the v-a-r-i-o-u-s motivations"
I realize English is a second language for you, but I specifically did NOT say that I knew everyone's motivations.
I can tell I've pushed some buttons of yours.
Am I the one who's been pestering anyone to respond either quickly or completely to everything I've posted? All kinds of people have avoided answering MY questions. Why aren't I also entitled to respond to what I like and change the channel if I'm bored?
You win, Bernhard. There's absolutely no point to anyone wasting tens or even hundreds of dollars on a formal education, much less decades of their life studying with the experts in a given field, because anyone who wants to can become an authority just by surfing the web, watching TV, and smoking dope. Anyone can be an archaeologist. It's even easier than being a drummer. It doesn't take any talent, training, practice, or experience at all.
I'm tired of your lies about mutual respect, Bernhard. If you don't mean it, don't say it. You've just lost all credibility with me. -
-
pyramidic reflections
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 4:53 PMgentlemen,
excuse me for butting in, but at this point, i feel it necessary.
i'm going to start calling you guys cain and abel.
you are both much closer to each other than either of you can see at the moment.
joined at the freakin hip and not willing to acknowledge it.
we have all read and acted in your current story so many times before.
(starting with the book of genesis and over and over and over again)
i'm personally oh so tired of it all...
i have a feeling everyone is (including you)
isn't the point of this entire experiment to consider new paradigms?
remix, rethink, recontextualize rather than rehash, replay, repeat?
the clock is ticking, and it's getting faster by the millisecond....
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: pyramidic reflections
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 8:38 PM"the clock is ticking, and it's getting faster by the millisecond..."
Ah, lil'fish, that's only an illusion. Do you think that Homo habilis, banging rocks together in the heat of the savannah, didn't feel that time was running out? And that was 2.5 million years ago!
I have a feeling that our ancestors have indeed been bitching at each other about how scarce the game, good rocks, and attractive mates have been since they were first able to talk about it. Sitting around a fire, a million years ago, the main topic of conversation was how the idiots on the other side of the hill were mucking things up for everyone. The Upper Paleolithic was a relatively good time, with cool artwork and plenty of mammoth meat to chew on, and then along came the end of the Ice Age--the most profound episode of global warming that humans have ever experienced.
Was there an ecological collapse? Sure, plenty of species became extinct. Was it the fault of humans? Doubtful. Did the world come to an end? Of course not. Did world population decline? No, just the opposite. People had to eat seeds instead of fish and meat, but they eventually figured out how to build houses and make more babies to help with all the extra work. Was it better than what they had before? In some ways yes, in some ways no. When agriculture kicked in, did they quit bitching about the idiots farther up the irrigation system who were mucking things up for everyone down below? Of course not.
Anyway, I don't want to go off track and analyze all of human history. This thread is about the Bosnian pyramids and 2012. The clock that's ticking its way to 2012 is not speeding up at all. It may seem that way, but it's not. In the meantime, a Serbian-American metal contractor from Houston has come to the conclusion that, with the help of extraterrestrials, world civilization began in Bosnia and spread from there to Egypt, Greece, and the rest of the world.
You can argue that it's a new paradigm, but I think it's the same old same old that people were bitching about a million years ago. Everyone wants to feel superior to those idiots on the other side of the hill who are mucking things up for everyone.
Littlefish has a point. This story is as old as time. As the Romans said 2000 years ago, "Nihil Sub Sole Novum" (There is nothing new under the sun).
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 5:24 PM> How do you know everyones motiavtion? What a bold statement.
Hoopes Responded:
Read my lips, Bernhard: "I also know a-b-o-u-t the v-a-r-i-o-u-s motivations"
Ah, and now the whole context:
"I also know about the various motivations behind the publication of all these books."
You forgot something: "behind the publication of ***ALL*** these books"
-
-
This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 7:33 PMOkay, Jason. You got me. Maybe not ***ALL*** of them.
-
-
Unsu...
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, June 29, 2006 - 12:21 AM"I realize English is a second language for you, but I specifically did NOT say that I knew everyone's motivations."
Thanks for pointing out that english is my second language. Would you like to continue in German? (-:..... Anyway........even to claim that you know the motivations of authors whose books you haven't read...is still a bold statement for me.
"I can tell I've pushed some buttons of yours."
No, not really, my writing style is just always more direct...due to German heritage and english being my second language.
In the end of it all...I'm just getting tired of this thread (as I only log in every three days now or so anyway) since I've realized that you have pre-dtermined beliefs about stuff you haven't looked really into and as you state you won't do so anyway. In short you seem to be quite close minded and like to defend your identity and belief system at any cost.....whatever it is worth for. So I see no point of continuing, as you ignore anything that might be a real "threat" to your "identity" of beliefs.
"You win, Bernhard. There's absolutely no point to anyone wasting tens or even hundreds of dollars on a formal education, much less decades of their life studying with the experts in a given field, because anyone who wants to can become an authority just by surfing the web, watching TV, and smoking dope. Anyone can be an archaeologist. It's even easier than being a drummer. It doesn't take any talent, training, practice, or experience at all. "
I win? Was this a contest? I didn't know. I thought it was a discussion between people about finding lout truth no matter how remote it may be form our conditioned beliefs.
First of all, yes, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on institutionalized government controlled education is quite a waste in my eyes.. But I can't relate to that. I grew up in a country where education (and health care) is free. Actually you get paid a student-support amount every month when you go to a university. Seems in this country it is reverse...,..if you have the $$, you'll get a nice degree and title.But...whatever..don't want to get into a disscussion abouy what educational system is better........there a pro and cons in any country.
Well, some people don't watch TV ( Personally I haven't watched or owned a TV in eight years). One learns a lot surfing the web...it's basically a virtual library....just gotta wade through the junk........and what is wrong with smoking dope? It helps breaking my habitual thinking patterns every once in a while. I always like to mention my good friend Pete, who is professor at CalTech an the Nanotechnology department and who is quite a pot smoker. I love to smoke out with him becuse he goes off on his latest projects and tests and it is quite fascinating to listen to him. Computer Chips as big as blood cells.......where are we heading? Fascinating!
I always like to use him as an example for all the lies and myths that are out there regarding post smoking.
Where is the evidence that smoking pot is supposed to make one stupid? It can be used for very creative purposes, scientific and artistic. I admit though that watching TV might be not the healthiest thing to do, actually TV is by far the most harming and dangerous drug I've ever come acrooss......especially american TV.
"I'm tired of your lies about mutual respect, Bernhard. If you don't mean it, don't say it. You've just lost all credibility with me."
I do respect you and I doubt yout tired about my "lies". You're tired about me confronting your so "holy" postiion of authority and beliefs as I question their credibility. I do respect you becasue on some level you seem open minded enough to engage in this forum but then again I relaized over time that you do have a lot of pre-determinde beliefs about something and a set-opinions without having looked any deeper.
You see, Hoopes, I'm not saying you're totally wrong and everything you learned is junk. No, I'm saying question what you learned and thought to be true for so long, just question it. Be critical with yourself, not only with others. Some might stand the test of time, some not. Open your mind to other ideas and don't make any fast conclusions about something you haven't really researched or looked deeper into (for example crop circles) just becasue it offenses your belief system. Question the nature of Belief and where it is coming from.
Expand your mind a bit to things you THINK are NOT possible. (It is possible without the use of entheogens).Push the envelope of your your own Thought process and break any habitual patterns you have. For the sake of evolution.
That is my intention here, no to claim that I know the truth, but to state that there is more to the story than as portrayed by mainstream academia or mainstream science. I think that is rather obvious, or is it not? I give it all the benefit of a doubt and the rabbit hole goes quite deep, deeper than the folks of Skepdic.com ever dear to dive. They're so stuck in a tunnle vision of reality, I can't believe people actually take this site serious.....It's probably run by the FBI as part of the Disinformation project...lol! (actually I'm not kidding)....just make sure people stay sheeple and don't question this reality we all "agreed" upon
In Bill Hicks words:
"Go back to bed, America. Your government has figured out how it all transpired. Go back to bed, America. Your government is in control again. Here. Here's American Gladiators. Watch this, shut up. Go back to bed, America. Here is American Gladiators. Here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom. Here you go, America! You are free to do what we tell you! You are free to do what we tell you! Keep watching TV and drinking beer! It's good for you!"
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Wed, June 28, 2006 - 5:02 PMJust read Kon Tiki Hoopes. What have you read? Jack shit. Kon Tiki -- gotta read it to know the man was right. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, June 29, 2006 - 7:53 AMYou gotta be kidding. I read "Kon Tiki" in 1975. "Aku Aku" too. -
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, June 29, 2006 - 8:18 AMWell everyone thought he was a dead man for all sorts of "scientific" reasons. Yet his only argument was taking the documents at face value and his trip excelled! The ancient steering trick to change the pressure vis a vis the center of gravity -- that's featured in the recent movie "The Fastest Indian On Earth" -- the New Zealander motorcycle racer. Same thing. the power of simple principles.
My favorite part was the 50 foot whale shark extending its head and tail beyond the front and back of the raft.
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Thu, June 29, 2006 - 8:19 AMExplain your research specialty. Are you affiliated with an institution? Why are you so shy about discussion macro quantum chaos -- it's the main topic at the top science think tanks: Los Alamos, Sandia, Santa Fe Institute, etc. It's essentially to understand science as a whole.
-
-
-
-
-
Re: Bosnian Pyramids and 2012
Tue, June 27, 2006 - 6:53 AMIt's an interesting critique although about two-thirds of it is ad hominem rhetoric. I depise that kind of writing. Just give the evidence and leave it at that.
Anyway you have chosen to ignore most of my message.
Here's my response to the critique of Robert Schoch -- there is no precise analysis in archaeology -- nor in geology. There's a great UCLA professor in geology who has written a book on the HUGE debate around "continental drift" -- Ureckes or something like that -- I'll remember. Basically U.S. scientists were in de facto denial about all the evidence because U.S. science favors deduction around assumed and stupid axioms whereas "pure" science in Europe is more based on the induction methodology. The evidence sways more easily. Maybe cuz they've being doing the whole science in service of imperialism much longer than gringos.
Anyway this is a similar situation. Have you read professor Rodney Needham's "Right hand and Left hand" book?
Needham is another perfectly valid professor who has been dismissed by the MSA (mainstream academics). Needham also argues a diffusionist position based on the Solar-Lunar dynamics of asymmetry (and he edited that book composed of essays by many scholars). I don't think that Schoch cites Needham -- too bad.
The deal is that right-brain cultures have radically different motivations than left-brain colonialists.
That should be obvious but the critique you linked to doesn't consider it at all. DUH!
The reed boats in Bolivia are used in a land-locked lake high up in the Andes. Why would those people want to return to Egypt? haha.
Have you read the great feminist expose on pre-Inca culture -- "Moon, Sun and Witches"?
There was a matrifocal, localized culture before the Solar Dynasty Inca empire. It's very possible that the Incas were either picking up on some sort of global gestalt (that happens in science all the time were independent researches lock in on the same "precise" discovery via an intuitive process) or people from the Old World had made contact (via Asia or Africa) and starting spreading Solar Dynasty Empire culture.
Jared Diamond's best-seller Guns, Germs and Steel is mainly a rip-off of Marvin Harris but since no one in mainstream culture remembers Marvin Harris nor reads him (every one since the 1950s has grown up via television) -- then this connection is lost.
Marvin Harris did not rule out any diffusionist argument. It's such a stupid simplistic dichotomy based on superficial egos.
Or consider that fact that the Green Sahara became a desert circa 3,500 B.C. due to the introduction of goat-based herding in Africa. The word tragedy comes from goats.
That indicates there was a very powerful culture in Africa quite a long time ago. Why is it that many West Africa cultures consider themselves descendents of Egypt?
On the relation between Phoenicians and other cultures I recommend Dr. Peter Kingsley's work -- his latest book "Reality." He's also an expert in right-brain shamanism of Arabic and Greek cultures and other west Asian cultures.
It's obviously too simplistic and stupid too exclaim that the Phoenicians got along well with the Romans at one point and then at another point were enemies. There's always hate-love dialectical reversals in ANY relationship.
Macro quantum chaos is inherently interdisciplinary yet even Jared Diamond's new book "Collapse" does not take into account nonlinear chaotic dynamics. Those dynamics are the dominant pattern in reality!! I've been working in environmental policy for almost 20 years and I'm flattered that Diamond has "professionally" decided to focus on the ecological armageddon but unfortunately the man was too timid in his analysis.
There's a deep psychological denial by the old White Male faction in the West -- especially the U.S. were such a dramatic "downsizing" has occurred (via synthetic estrogen-mimicking chemicals or cut and run "passive" investors).
There's a whole plethora of "lost at sea" survival books which give great credence to Schoch's thesis. "Desperate Voyage" is one of my personal favorites -- he ended up being saved by the Fiji, just after WWII -- on an island that was still traditional and not destroyed by the atomic bombing or the global climate destabilization.
drew hempel, MA
-
-
-
-
Noah's Ark Found
Mon, July 3, 2006 - 9:20 AMThe source of this story suggests it's yet another example of confusing geological formations with archaeological discoveries:
www.worldviewweekend.com/secur...le.php -
-
Re: Noah's Ark Found
Mon, July 3, 2006 - 12:05 PMWhat government agency do you work for?
-
