<The just seek to fit in where they can, and it is working for them. >

well thats true to some extent, but i dont think all western values such as democracy are bad. not of course that i think they should be imposed by the barrell of a gun. While China are doing some good things in Africa for example they have also supported some governments that are involved in genocide, surely you cant see that as good ? not that the west’s hands are always clean either. So i don’t necessarily see one side by definition better than the other.

Russia with Iran are being pragmatic, they have decided that under Obama its unlikely America are going to be a threat to them (under McPalin, different story) and they have started to see Amerdinjad as a loose cannon i suspect – which he absoultly is.

Amerdinjad has basically staged a coup with the support of the supreme leader and the establishment there is split right down the middle, though Amerdinjad has basically the upper hand for the moment.

I think its simplistic to see the world split in this way now though, between a western Christian/Jewish and non western on the other

If you really want to split it culturally, at least use S P Huntington’s template that splits it between about 9 major cultures. The Chinese for example, have not that much in common culturally with the Islamic countries.

But there is a new dynamic developing that i think will be stronger than cultural/national splits as time goes on, that Will alludes to, between progressives and the old establishments, everywhere, be they in Iran, between Amerdinjad and Mousavi. American with progressives and conservatives, take health care, you seen just how polarised America was on that.

Or if we take the Israel Palestine conflict, there are elements within both camps that are moderate and want to make peace, and those who are nationalist and reactionary. There is a split even within Hamas, some want to present a more moderate face, are willing to accept 67 borders, and to negotiate, some don’t want to settler for anything less than the end of Israel.

And within Israel we have probably an even deeper split. Lieberman in the Israeli cabinet really doesn’t want peace, and sees Israel should get away with anything they can, there are some Israelis who see that they should take all the settlement land they can get there hands on, and that the Palestinians deserve that because, as they see it there violence, and anyway god promised them that land.

There are on the other hand some Israelis appalled at that kind of attitude and very much want to make peace, would be happy to see a return to 67 borders if Palestinians agreed, and do have compassion for what Palestinians are going through.

I think these kind of splits WITHIN cultures and WITHN nations will get stronger and stronger and we will increasingly see a dynamic that moderates across cultural "borders" will have more in common than they have with hardliners in there own "house."

Nothing showed that better than the green revolution.

Mind, be careful of how you interpret that Wil. Many of them protesting were Islamic through and through. What they want to see is reform of Islam, not its demise.

Much of the distortions of the abrahamic religions i don’t believe were always there in the early days. There was a golden age of Islam for example from 800-1200 AD when Islam helped promote free thinking, creative thinking, innovation, and rights for woman, in fact at that time the Islamic world apparently had better rights for woman than any other part of the world.

I think this could be true of Christianity too, take note any who read Da Vinci code, in that the feminine/sexual/mystical side had been intentionally removed by later power structures, and it seems probable that early Christians were neither hostile to sex or the feminine.

Now i think the opposite is also true, that its easy to get too romantic about the pagan and older religions. I’m sure Hoopes can confirm that there was often much bloodshed, and questionable practices from the Mayans for example.

And i say that as someone much more inclined towards paganism.

The reason i think this important anyway, is because Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, 1.4 billion of them, and Christianity is growing fast in the developing world too.

Its extremely unlikely the bulk of these people are going to drop there religions. Maybe that is actually undesirable too, as there is a lot of good in these as well as bad, that many of us overlook, because of the negative sides that have so predominated recently.

What is more desirable is a reform of these things. Benazir Bhutto the Pakistani female political reformer, and PM, who was killed there, shows in her book that much of Islam has been badly distorted by both the fundamentalists and its opponents. There is absolutely nothing in Islam that means it should have to be intolerant, sexist, uncompassionate to non believers, and closed minded. In fact these things are often condemned in the Quran and the reverse promoted.

And then alongside reform, we should encourage a rise again of the mystical sides of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. Of course there is the free thinking, new age type of spirituality that many of us subscribe to here, but i think you know, you have to accept that this is a process of change, there is probably as much rubbish in New Age, as there is in Islam, and Christianity, i see all of these things, as having something to offer, and all of them, having distortions. New age is just probably not that powerful enough to cause real trouble – and its new, so in some ways its going to be more progressive.

You see i see 2012 as being about being holistic. There is much good in all these things, There is much good in western stuff too, and even materialism can have its moments.

What I see the urgency is to be progressive and holistic with all these things, take the best, reject the worst.