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William S. Burroughs & 2012

topic posted Fri, February 9, 2007 - 7:18 AM by  Hoopes
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In 1965, Burroughs published his own version of TIME magazine in an edition of only 1000 copies.

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Burroughs was fascinated with the ancient Maya and studied anthropology at Harvard with Alfred Tozzer, a distinguished Maya scholar. He visited Maya sites in the Yucatan and archaeology is a theme that pops up with regularity in his writings.

In TIME, Burroughs refers to the Maya calendar end date (see the passage at the top of the left hand column) on this page:

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He also alludes to the the "Great Atlantic Accident" (undoubtedly the lost continent of Atlantis, which the eccentric 19th century archaeologist Augustus Le Plongeon linked to Chichén Itzá) and the Dresden Codex (where he mentions that the event is "depicted in the codices as a God pouring water on the earth".

It's worth noting that (see the bottom of the middle column on this page) Burroughs associates Maya calendar dates with his 1953 trip to the Putumayo--the same part of Colombia where Terence & Dennis McKenna experienced "The Experiment" at La Chorrera--where he went in search of a yagé cure for his heroin addiction.

I suspect that Burroughs played a key role in introducing Beat writers and aficionados to ideas about the ancient Maya calendar. I'm now curious to know whether he was ever in touch with poet Tony Shearer, who introduced the idea of a Harmonic Convergence in his book "Lord of the Dawn" (1971).

I have only just begun to explore this topic, but it's obvious that Burroughs was aware of a Maya calendar end date. It would be interesting to know how often he may have written about it and whether he ever traced it out to 2012 before the date became generally known.

Beat consciousness of 2012 has, to my knowledge, not yet been explored. In the early 1960s, Neal Cassady and his wife Carolyn were deeply into the writings of Edgar Cayce and were close friends of Hugh Lynn Cayce (Edgar's son). This may have been a source of ideas for Burroughs, too, who was undoubtely familiar with late 19th century Spiritualism, Theosophical writings, Ignatius Donnelly, Augustus Le Plongeon, James Churchward, and the like.
posted by:
Hoopes
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  • Burroughs was at Harvard from 1932-36, when results of the Carnegie Institution of Washington's project at Chichén Itzá, directed by Sylvanus Morley, would have been under analysis at the Peabody Museum. This was also the time of the University of Pennsylvania's project a Piedras Negras (which Tatiana Proskouriakoff joined in 1936).

    I haven't yet been able to determine whether Burroughs ever met Morley, but he became fascinated with the ancient Maya at the same time Morely was compiling his 5-volume magnum opus "Inscriptions of Petén" (published in 1938), a comprehensive (for the time) analysis of all of the known dated monuments in the central lowlands of Guatemala. This was, of course, before Tatiana Proskouriakoff recognized that the texts on the monuments referred to real people. The dominant paradigm was that they referred to gods and the "worship of time".

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvanus_Morley

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will..._Burroughs

    Burroughs would have undoubtedly known about the detailed work being done on the Maya calendar, and may have even learned about it directly from Morley himself. Given his significant role in both Beat literature and the nascent psychedelic movement (which he himself inspired through his 1953 use of ayahuasca in Colombia, documented in his book with Allen Ginsberg "The Yagé Letters" (1963). As I noted, Terence McKenna later followed in the footsteps of Burroughs and Ginsberg with his trip to the Putumayo.

    It's hard for me to believe that Burroughs himself didn't play a key role in linking the memes of the the Maya calendar and entheogens while perpetuating consciousness of both through his life, relationships, and influence on the center of global counterculture. Of course, this weaves back into the complex skein of threads through Neal Cassady (who drove "Further", Ken Kesey's bus of Merry Pranksters, and was an ever-present figure in the original acid tests) Burroughs was, of course, a close friend of Jack Kerouac, who Daniel Pinchbeck's mother was seeing when "On the Road" was published.

    These would be fascinating threads to trace.
    • Unsu...
       
      burroughs is like the severed skeletal head at the fork of the world tree grinning at us... empty eye sockets' obsidian gleam "you're not the first"
      his specific knowlege of the Maya perhaps not so impressive
      his lines of study of course untraceable

      his impact on the conciousness of our generation may perhaps be unrivaled by any other figure of the 20th century imho

      we could talk about him and the 2012 meme, equally so AIDS, the internet, globalism... he was laughing about it all way back
      • "his impact on the conciousness of our generation may perhaps be unrivaled by any other figure of the 20th century imho"

        Utterly unrivaled. In more ways than we will ever suspect.

        Don't underestimate his specific knowledge of the Maya. I never seized the opportunity to discuss it with him in person (even though we lived only 15 minutes apart for more than a decade)--something I'll always regret--but it was an interest he sustained for over six decades. You learn a lot across that span of time, especially if you've got Burroughs' brain and heart.

        youtube.com/watch

        youtube.com/watch

        RIP WSB
        • Ah Puch, also known as God A, the skeletal God of Death and a Lord of Xibalba.

          youtube.com/watch
          • Unsu...
             
            Hoopes,

            This is an interesting thread and I would encourage you to keep digging - it's imspired me to do a bit more reading around Burroughs, a writer that I have neglected for some time.

            The possible synchronicities you highlight fascinate me. I know that nothing is more powerful than an Idea who's time has come, but one wonders if they wait, slumbering in a certain time and place waiting for the opportune moment - in this case the McKenna's visit to La Chorrera.
          • Great video Hoopes!

            “If control's control is absolute (then) why does control (the ugly American and instrument of control) need (time) to control?”

            “Death needs time for what it kills to grow in for 'Ah Pook’s' sweet sake, you stupid vulgar greedy ugly American death sucker!”

            “We have a new type of rule…reach power thru the surrender of self.”
          • thanks for the links Hoopes ... awesome Animation and great words :-)
            • Unsu...
               
              well i just said that because thinking back to his "the mayan caper" he says something like mayan is a simple language to learn, not like nahuatl which is very complicated, when i think the reverse is actually true
              and he gives the start and end date as 5-Ahau rather than 4-Ahau
              which i actually find very intriguing being that 5-Ahau is the last of the 7 lost generations
              i'm just sayin i think burroughs was a lot more interested in bits an pieces that happened to resonate with him than he was in any sort of consistent or verifiable construction of maya traditions... in otherwords in what he was able to pick up on his antenna of jissom
  • Here's a review (from the journal Postmodern Culture) of the book "Retaking the Universe: William S. Burroughs in the Age of Globalization" by Davis Schneiderman & Philip Walsh, . London: Pluto (2004).
    www.amazon.com/Retaking-U...0745320813/

    muse.jhu.edu/journals/pm...2banash.html

    "'Writing, Sign, Instrument: Language and Technology' is the heart of the book, both literally and figuratively. It is this group of essays that justifies the title of the anthology. These writers make a persuasive case that Burroughs offers a compelling account of globalization through his practice as a writer. The section begins with an essay by Anthony Enns entitled 'Burroughs's Writing Machines,' in which he makes fascinating connections between typewriters and globalization. For instance, writing about the Yage Letters he argues that Burroughs's obsession with world cultures from the ancient Maya to practicing shamans reveals a 'desire to achieve a primitive, pre-literate state . . . [that] later manifested itself in his manipulations of media technology.'

    The creation of a sense of an archaic reality is an ancient technique of shamans, a tradition into which Burroughs clearly fits.

    The Mayan Caper
    realitystudio.org/texts/sof...yan-caper/

    (The text I initially cited from "TIME" (1965) was apparently a partial draft of what became this.)
  • nice thread doc...grassyass.

    the excerpt u reference verbatim
    (just cuz transcribing burroughs is yummy fun)

    the Mayan
    calendar starts from
    the date & Ahau88 Cumh
    u and rools on to the
    end of the world also
    a definite future date
    ('/Great Atlantic Acc-
    ident.Need a peg to ha
    -ng it on.Name address
    hotel quite right?/'

    (ed.note: & used for the lack of that quintessential burroughsian symbol on me keyboard)

    the peg being the mayan calendar ya?
    if so, then accrding to sir bill,
    isn't the end definite future date
    the part hangin on a Great Atlantic Accident?

    check out the 'real' cover of time almost 24 years after the date of WSB's:
    (same cover worldwide as u can see)

    www.time.com/time/magazi...0403,00.html

    from the issue:
    <•90% reflected by ice MELTING ICE RAISES SEA LEVELS INUNDATING LOW COASTAL AREAS WASHING ASHORE The ice at the North Pole is floating, so as it melts, the sea level won't change much. But the massive ice sheets over Antarctica and Greenland are another story. If both melted completely, sea levels could rise nearly 220 ft. (72 m). That's a worst-case scenario. But the melting is accelerating, and sea levels are projected to rise gradually, threatening low-lying communities>

    (there was a projected map of the land perhaps underwater by that date i recall seeing in the hard copy,
    but it's not online and i unfortunately recycled my issue in a fit of clean(s)ing..)

    but whoa that's deep...way deeper than the beats & the new edge, no?

    most of the mayan cities were/are on low-lying coastal areas right?

    where do u think he got that information? doesnt he refer shortly before to hanging with some 'nameless asshole archeologists'?

    question: do any of the ruins have any physical evidence of at all being underwater?

    btw no, this is not working the atlantis angle, just r(en)uminating on his questions at the end...

    <name?address?hotel? quite right?>

    how about check-out time?
    (check-in time being shortly afterwards...)

    • Thanks for your co-interest in exploring this stuff! If the 20th century had any prophets, WSB was the real deal.

      "most of the mayan cities were/are on low-lying coastal areas right?"

      No, not really. Most of the big ones (El Mirador, Tikal, Calakmul, Copán, Palenque, Yaxchilán, Chichén Itzá, etc.) are in the interior.

      "where do u think he got that information? doesnt he refer shortly before to hanging with some 'nameless asshole archeologists'?"

      I suspect he may have referred to them as "assholes" because some were working as spies:

      www.thenation.com/doc/20001120/price
      • <No, not really. Most of the big ones (El Mirador, Tikal, Calakmul, Copán, Palenque, Yaxchilán, Chichén Itzá, etc.) are in the interior.>

        u're right i stand corrected.

        www.kstrom.net/isk/maya/mayamap.html

        but check this out from lower in the page.

        <3. Yaxchilán, 4. Bonampak, 9. Tikal, 10. Uaxactun and 11. Copan were lowland or valley cities, abandoned for unknown reasons with the fall of classic Mayan civilization, around 1,000 A.D. These cities were overgrown with rain forest jungle.>


        and this...from www.dartmouth.edu/~izapa/tikal.html

        <Uaxactún and Tikal lie atop the drainage divide between the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean Sea.>
        -- both tributaries so to speak of the atlantic ocean

        and the area around coba and tulum (the only cities i visited so far) where monuments referencing the long count were discovered (in coba that is) is an area overflowing with cenotes.

        from wikiworld:

        <Cenote Geology

        Cenotes were formed at low sea-level stages during the Pleistocene Epoch. They are fully or partially collapsed karst caves. Mature cenotes often resemble small, circular lakes or lagoons with sheer drops at the edges.
        Some cenotes flow out to the ocean. Where the fresh and saltwater meet, a blurry halocline layer can be found. This phenomenon can occur many kilometres inland, and is usually found at depths between 10-20 meters.

        Cenotes and the Maya

        Cenotes have long been major sources of water in much of the Yucatan peninsula, most of which lacks other easily accessible year-round water. The Maya city of Chichén Itzá was built around a cluster of these natural wells, as were many other Maya settlements. Some cenotes like the Cenote of Sacrifice in Chichén Itzá played an important role in Maya rites. It was believed that these pools were gateways to the other world,>

        now dont know about the ones in chichen itza, but after speaking with divers that live down there, many the ones around tulum & coba are connected by underground canals and that some of those connect out into the caribbean.

        iow\ if the atlantic sea levels have or will ever rise or have risen (all hypothetical of course),
        these particular areas (due to geography) may have or may be among the first ones prone to flooding

        which goes back to the question of where bill burroughs got that info on the great atlantic accident.

        the spy angle just sweetens the pot.

        if there were indeed spyhole archelogists down there, why were down there and what was the intelligence that they gathered?
        and was wsb perhaps thru the use of his mastery of certain intoxicating truth serums able to extract any of that intellegence?
        or did he receive that info from elsewhere on the jizzum antenna?
        • Unsu...
           
          yes some info on the 7 lost generations

          it would be helpful if you have a copy of The Mayan Factor or other source with the 'Wave Harmonic of History' on hand
          if not, a simple version of the tzolkin in the Hamonic Module form will do

          the maya long-count 3114BC-2012AD consists of 260 katuns, a katun being a period of about 20 years, or 1 generation
          so the cycle of history is a cycle of 260 generations
          each generation can therefor be correlated to one of the 260 days of the tzolkin

          okay so fast forward to the tenth baktun, or the tenth of the 13th columns on the Harmonic Module
          this is 'The Baktun of the Maya' more or less the period of the Classic Maya civilization (as we´ve discussed elsewhere all the final long-count monuments are dated right around the end of the 10th baktun)

          now, Pakal, the legendary master prophet Votan, had his Temple of the Inscriptions dedicated on the long count date 9.13.0.0.0. (nine baktuns plus 13 katuns, or the 13th katun of the 10th baktun).
          this leaves 7 katuns, 7 generations left until the end of the Baktun (and Classic civilization) of the Maya. this period is termed "the late classic" and is pretty much universally aknowledged to be the time of the greatest achievements of Maya culture
          paradoxically it is also the period of the what, by conventional models of the rise and fall of civilizations, would be ther period of decadence and decline
          the question, despite the authoritative declarations of some, of what exactly caused the Classic civilization to vanish is wide open... as far as i know, at any other place on earth at any other time in history, high civilizations (and it has been said the Classic Maya has no rival) do not simply disappear in a span of no more than 100 years! (i realize the people didn't disappear, i'm talking civilization)

          so... these generations are "lost" to history, they exist in the realm of myth, and intrusion of myth into history
          in the Chilam Balam books there is reference to a 'book of 7 generations' of which each of the Chilanes recieve a reading

          anyhoo... the 7 kin that correlate to the last seven generations of the 10th baktun are 12-Ix (Chrystal Wizard) through 5-Ahau (Overtone Sun), kin 194-200. these are very important factors of synchronization in the Dreamspell mythos when one gets into the nitty gritty of the whole 2012 / 2013 galactic synchronization thingy

          i'd be happy to get into it deeper with ya sometime when i've got more time

          one more thing cool, bringing us back on topic, it can pretty well be agreed that Burroughs' was the prophet of the generation 1953-1973, the 18th katun of the 13th baktun, or kin 258 Spectral Mirror.
          Burroughs' galactic signature? Spectal Mirror!

          kin 258: White Spectral Mirror
          I Dissolve in order to Reflect
          Releasing Order
          I seal the Matrix of Endlessness
          With the Spectral tone of Liberation
          I am guided by my own power doubled
          • fascinating stuff frog...gracias.

            the harmonic module for reference thanks to mama A --
            people.tribe.net/alcyone/p...66ff747597

            (tangential thought: whatever one may think of senor arguelles,
            he did us all a enormous service in organizing the long count in such an elegant easy-to-read fashion)

            so okay if i understand this correctly, the 10th baktun, the one where the mayan civilization had its classic and post-classic periods and the one which some claim when the long count was 'originated' (correct?), ends on the katun of 5-Ahau.

            thus, this katun must have a certain particular revelance for the classic and post-classic maya, being the end of a rather large cycle and all, no? i agree that it is valid to consider that the maya may have considered this the period of their civilization's 'apocalypse' (except that they bailed out 7 generations early).

            now the maya being the lovers of self-similar patterns across multiples scales ('as above, so below'), wouldn't it make elegant sense that the end of the long count to have a certain equal 'resonance' to the end of the baktun in which the mayan civilization existed?

            if so, then wsb may have indeed been onto something....

            question: in the traditional mayan cosmology of time, are the 'day' signs used on any other scale besides the day scale and the scale of the katun, either greater or inbetween?

            ~~~~~~

            in regards as to why the maya bailed, indeed it still does lie in the realm of subjective myth & mystery and yes there is a certain incomparable beauty to that. and in fact, ever since our discussion surrounding apocalypto, i have held space for your particular interpretation and now looking at this module, it makes so much more elegant sense to me than the gospel according to mel.

            yet, it still butts up against something a friend said many years ago during a discussion of the unsustainably of our current societal lifestyle: 'by and large, human beings will never accept a lower standard of living than what they're currently accustomed to."

            for some reason, that line has stuck with me ever since and in the context of current events, resonates now even deeper.

            now even if that statement is valid, perhaps that attitude is prevelant solely in a period of decline, which for whatever reason, the maya chose to avoid. and unfortunately, my powers in vivid past-life regression have as of still remain dormant, so i am currently unable to test that hypothesis experimentally.

            nonetheless, in our fun quest to solve burroughs' mayan riddles, i personally feel the need to hold some space for her wise words, hoping perhaps in the process it will be discovered that in the realm of the maya, they harmonize with your interpretation based on your voluminous research and unquestioned understanding.

            with that said, let's see what else happened during 5-Ahau.

            in world history (MAN-MADE) -- (ref: www.montaguemillennium.com/fami....htm)

            <1190. Magnetic compass in use in the West for ship navigation.
            1190. Third Crusade
            1195. Office of Justice of the Peace established.

            1200. Stephen Langton, Archbishop of Canterbury and key player in the Magna Carta, invents the Chapter and Verse system for "organizing" the bible.
            1201. Fourth Crusade begins. In 1204 these crusaders sacked Constantinople.
            1202. Fibonacci publishes Liber Abaci, introducing "arabic numerals", the decimal system, and zero. Finonacci's father was an Italian trader who delt with North Africa, where Foibonacci had become familiar with Arab arithmetic. The decimal system with zero was rapidly adopted by Italian businessmen.
            1204-1205. The Fourth Crusade. In 1205, on easter, western crusaders of the Fourth Crusade sacked Constantinople and forcibly installed a prostitute on the throne of the Patriarch of the eastern church at St. Sophia.
            1209. King John excommunicated by Pope.
            1209-1244. Pope Innocent III calls a brutal and bitter internal Crusade (the Albigensian Crusade) against the Cathars in southern France (the Languedoc region; Albi was a Cathar stronghold). The Cathars (Greek for "pure") practiced old Gnostic-Christian beliefs that apparently came by way of Bosnia in the 400-500's. The Cathars were pacifists who had adopted a Gnostic view due to the corruption of the local Catholic clergy; their belief that everything in the material world was an evil manifestation of the mind of the devil (the fallen son) implied that Jesus, in the material world, could not have been really good or a god. This was the first significant heresy within established Catholicism; the Dominican order was formed to preach against the Cathars and the Inquisition was formed. "Kill them all; God will know his own." (hey, where have we heard that?) [1] . Supposedly the last Cathar was burned in 1244, but apparently some today practice Catharism: [2]
            1210. The Mongols invade China.
            1210. St. Francis of Assisi founds the Franciscans.>

            interesting tangents (esp. the intro of arabic numerals and ZERO into post-roman civilization via the golden boy fibonacci), but nothing striking.

            in world history (NATURAL) however, a chord is struck maybe?

            for 5-Ahau existed just before (how close depending on which scientific ideology you choose to believe) the Little Ice Age smack dab in the middle of a period called the Medieval Warm Period:

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medi...te_optimum

            <The Medieval Warm Period was a time of unusually warm weather around 800-1300 AD, during the European Medieval period. The Medieval Warm Period partially coincides with the peak in solar activity named the Medieval Maximum (1100–1250).>

            scienceweek.com/2004/sa040924-5.htm

            <The most recent quiescent period was from 1645 to 1715, the period called the "Maunder Minimum". The 12th century "Medieval Maximum" is the most recent epoch of hyperactivity. The empirical relation between the total luminosity and magnetic activity, based on many Sun-type stars, suggests that the Sun was fainter during the *Maunder Minimum by 0.4 +- 0.2 percent, and perhaps brighter by a comparable amount during the Medieval Maximum. The mean annual temperature in the northern temperate zone was lower than normal by 1 to 2 degrees centigrade during the Maunder Minimum and higher by 1 to 2 degrees centigrade during the Medieval Maximum. The fractional change in temperature is comparable to the fractional change in solar brightness, with the implication that the Sun is the driver of the climate. The consequences for agriculture were severe during both periods, the Maunder Minimum being disastrous in northern Europe and China, and the Medieval Maximum disastrous in the semi-arid regions. >

            www.grisda.org/origins/10051.htm

            <The period just before the Little Ice Age — 1100-1300 — also presents a weather anomaly. It was characteristically different from the present day in that average temperatures were higher. Thus a more marked shift to a colder time is more visible in the historical record.>

            ~~~~~~

            sound familiar?

            now admittedly, almost all of the data collected on the MWP/LIA is from europe, yet at this point, i don't think it's too far of a stretch to consider that this was a global phenomenon affecting not only europe but mesoamerica as well.

            also admittedly, some claim that the warmest period occured much earlier around 1000 a.d., though there is such a wide variance between the 'expert' opinions, one could make the claim that no really knows exactly when it occured specifically.

            bet ya una quetzal y uno peso that the classic maya did tho...even perhaps, due their astronomical prowess, in time to get outta dodge before the worst.

            maybe just maybe 5-Ahau is the peg?

            (again this is all simply pithy hypothetical speculation, as we've already been told by those most high & esteemed that global warming is 90% due to human activity)
            • i misquoted my friend by forgetting to put the most important word of her sentence in her sentence:

              WILLINGLY
              • Unsu...
                 
                eh, not quite, the 10th baktun is the Classic Maya, and the Classic Maya only. the Post-Classic is the 11th and 12th baktuns
                i think you may mean "Late Classic"
                • Unsu...
                   
                  this is good stuff Lil Fish!
                  fractal time compression is fun!

                  i'd be innarrested in what you bring up for other lost generations, or any other generations... like your own kin

                  aren't the lost generations, for the most part, considered the Mid-Ages where civilization like fell off and everything really sucked, like the crusades and stuff?
                  but don't pretty much all our 7-Dwarves, Sleeping Beauty type fairy-tales take place during this time?
            • Whether or not current global warming is man made pollution is. If we're going to be trying to clean up the air at the smoke stack, we might as well knock back the greenhouse gases while we're up on the roof.
  • I knew John Clellon Holmes a bit. He could be described as the Beats' encyclopedist. He could relate tall tales about that tribe for hours unending, but his most cogent observation about the scene in general was that it probed everything frantically and in depth but then proceeded to forget most of it. The uncontrolled substances certainly exacerbated that.
    Towards the end of his life Burroughs had concluded that the world had already ended and that it was always ending anyway.
    • what else can a imminently dying man conclude?

      “Desperation is the raw material of drastic change.
      Only those who can leave behind everything they have ever believed in can hope to escape.” - WSB
      • ahhhhhh dying to life and living to death ...sweet surrender...rejuvenating your juice
        first you see the Buddha (id), then you kill the Buddha(ego) then you are the Buddha (superego).........
        • Unsu...
           
          wow... kinda like you, right?
          • Unsu...
             
            You had to bring Buddha into this... nice way to show everyone how big headed you are by pointing out everyone's ego... Everyone seems to dress in their own guilt here. I like that... gives me room to be the monkey wrench.
          • David...wow...kinda like your call, right? if that is all you can see than ...........your view from way up there is obscured.......the blind 95 year old I sit and read to, and the 23 year old schizophrenic friend I mentor daily, and the others in my life, see another side.....
            If you think life is all fun and games think again..............

            my Irish grandpa would say put that in your pipe and smoke it...............
            • Unsu...
               
              Well, my Scottish grandfather would tell me to kick people like you in the head, but I don't do that... I am a schitzophrenic and I am 23. So, that's kinda funny...

              Isn't my call... it's just your persistance to point out people's ego ALL the time... Dude, you ever look at yourself? You should. You should be number 1 on that list. I'm not doing this for you, btw. You dragged Budda into this... maybe you've offended alot more people than you know. It's things like that, that turn people into enemies. You'd really be screamin' ego when you've pissed off someone way bigger than you and they crush your crush like a cup cake... So, how big do you think you are? And how big are you really? Think about those two questions seriously and then you might have something different to say. Do you preach this non sense to these people? You don't have to answer that. I imagine you don't. It's places like this you can share your... other life with.
              • >^^<

                01/25
                "it's just your persistance to point out people's ego ALL the time... Dude, you ever look at yourself? You should. You should be number 1 on that list."

                and david haz hit thee nail on thee hed

                cheerz mate

                and sted E az we grow
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: >^^<

                  01/25
                  I should've... it's what I do to my own self... to keep myself in check. No one in this fuckin' world has ever had an ego as big as mine was... but see... only I knew I had an ego. I know what I can do and what I can't... and I can say this, your ego comes in a yellow box... my ego comes from HELL.
              • Unsu...
                 
                I don't believe you know what an ego is... otherwise you wouldn't bring it up when it's not even present or connected to anything someone is saying. Just something to think about. Perhaps, you could put all your worries to an end, research what it is... and post a GIGANTIC thread about it, that way... you can just quit talking about it cuz you're embarrasing yourself or something.
              • I guess spontaneous poetry or sharing my photography skills is just me trying to look kool too. Instead, By opening, I set you up to slam me. Thanks teacher
                funny I just thought I would comment on glens post to stimulate thought and I get kicked in the head by a Scott who thinks he knows me. Buddha wasn't offended. If I dragged Jesus in would it be different. What if I quote Alan Watts since I'm reading him and Nietzsche at the moment. They both claim god is dead in the minds and hearts of men and we slaughtered Him. the only hope for mankind is that we rise to the challenge of being Supermen/women ourselves.
                How big am I?......... I am really an average guy making the best of what he's got.
                How big am I really? I am just One of ALL..........
                If I told you about the lesson of the big guy squashing me like a cup cake, for sticking up for a softee in Basic training and then pursuing and finding me a year later in Korea to apologize, and thank me....would it ring a bell? I spare the details but can furnish them if you like. The Way is clear to fools that see, you are me.
                Sorry you see sharing ideas as preaching, perhaps you have been trained to hear as such..............
                Funny, now a days all the twenty three year olds think they instantly know more than us stragglers making our way to old age through experience. Guess I did too.......thanks again teacher...........
                And I don't mind answering that last one for I share what I can with all. It is one flow no alts. and people do seek my counsel.
                To all who read my " big "words and ideas I humbly apologize for seeming such much......... you are all my teachers.............thank you.
                ..............e
                • Watts states it like this:

                  I find that the sensation of myself as an ego inside a bag of skin is really a hallucination. What we really are is, first of all, the whole of our body. And although our bodies are bounded with skin, and we can differentiate between outside and inside, they cannot exist except in a certain kind of natural environment. Obviously a body requires air, and the air must within a certain temperature range. The body also requires certain kinds of nutrition. So in order to occur the body must be on a mild and nutritive planet with just enough oxygen in the atmosphere spinning regularly around in a harmonious and rhythmical way near a certain kind of warm star.

                  That arrangement is just as essential to the existence of my body as my heart, my lungs,and my brain. So to describe myself in a scientific way, I must also describe my surroundings, which is a clumsy way getting around to the realization that you are the entire universe. However we do not normally feel that way because we have constructed in thought an abstract idea of our self.

                  "Well," you ask."How do I get rid of it?" And my answer to that is: That's the wrong question. How does one get rid of what? You can't get rid of your hallucination of being an ego by an activity of the ego. Sorry, but it can't be done. If you try to get rid of your ego with your ego you will just end up in a vicious circle. You'd be like somebody who worries because they worry because they worry.
                  home.planet.nl/~brouw724/Awatts.html
                  please find time to read this thinkers work..........there is much in such.......................e
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Again from Watts...
                    Underneath the superficial self, which pays attention to this and that, there is another self more really us than I. And the more you become aware of the unknown self -- if you become aware of it -- the more you realize that it is inseparably connected with everything else that is. You are a function of this total galaxy, bounded by the Milky Way, and this galaxy is a function of all other galaxies. You are that vast thing that you see far, far off with great telescopes. You look and look, and one day you are going to wake up and say, "Why, that's me!" And in knowing that, you know that you never die. You are the eternal thing that comes and goes, that appears -- now as John Jones, now as Mary Smith, now as Betty Brown -- and so it goes, forever and ever and ever.
                    home.planet.nl/~brouw724/Awatts.html
                    • Then before Watts...Chuang Tzu..........

                      The spiritual foundation of Chuang Tzu is paradoxically the rejection of any fixed spiritual foundation. This is called wu dao, which means not positing the notion that there must be a necessary permanence to the way the world of phenomena works. Wu dao also indicates one is free of any notion that the best way to approach the world is something which must always remain the same. In effect, one does not make the existential claim (or deny the claim) that there are any fixed values. In fact, the world might or might not be completely absurd.

                      Chuang Tzu´s practice entails the suspension (not the elimination) of all a priori assumptions. All prior explanations of how the world has been operating up to now, are continually subject to revision. All prior notions of how one might best approach the world´s unfolding activities are open to question.

                      The suspension of all fixed perspectives apparently permits the adept to perceptually obtain the most unfiltered view of what is happening at the moment. With a clear view of what is occurring right now, the adept can effectively integrate what she sees, and respond to it in a satisfactory and timely manner.

                      In practice the wu dao approach obtains an inexplicable result: with practice the adept increasingly gains a know-how which allows her to respond to the world in a way that is more materially effective; but she also increasingly obtains a perspective which allows her to be completely content with any material loss or gain that might occur.

                      This ability to be content no matter what occurs is called zi le, which means ´self-generated contentment´or ´sovereign contentment´. This does not mean that the adept is generating a contentment which does not depend on what is happening in the world around her. It rather means that she has learned to find an uncanny mind-body disposition within her world, and this disposition allows her to integrate everything she experiences in a manner that is completely satisfactory for her.

                      www.mysticism.nl/
                      • "but she also increasingly obtains a perspective which allows her to be completely content with any material loss or gain that might occur."

                        Key word in this sentence may be IINCREASINGLY kinda like the phrase TOWARD a more perfect union.
                        I think the great challenge is not how close or complete we may get to perfection but to understand how far can we get from it.


                        • a work in progress by creation without its natural hands tied by fear full human mystery...............
                          • "a work in progress by creation without its natural hands tied by fear full human mystery"

                            a work in progress by creation without its natural hands tied by fear full society and govt

                            siriusly

                            and then thee "mystery(S)" woodnt bee sow "mysterious"

                            siriusly

                            and sted E az we grow
                            • agreed...b....but not with separation ...the society and govt. is just a bunch of fearful humans fumbling with the switches and buttons. And we are them................

                              You-more-us-ly

                              mystery creates potential and choice ...solve it and we are finished. "Case closed". We will be defined instead of being infinite possibility.............

                              thanks for playing
                              • "mystery creates potential and choice ...solve it and we are finished. "Case closed". We will be defined instead of being infinite possibility............."

                                eye am Re: fur ring 2 sum rather specifik and pertinent scenarios.....

                                when hue manity kan stop fumbling thee true adventures that will arise N place ov "survival ov thee fittest" R N deed unlimited

                                "thanks for playing"

                                yer knot welkome

                                sum games R knot fun, know matter how much one spiritually justifies them

                                sirius lee ;;>)))
                                • So let them do with me as they will; I yield my body to them. Come blows, come hunger, thirst, heat or cold, little matters it to me; they may flay me, if I only escape my debts, if only I win the reputation of being a bold rascal, a fine speaker, impudent, shameless, a braggart, and adept at stringing lies, an old stager at quibbles, a complete table of laws, a thorough rattle, a fox to slip through any hole; supple as a leather strap, slippery as an eel, an artful fellow, a blusterer, a villain; a knave with a hundred faces, cunning, intolerable, a gluttonous dog. With such epithets do I seek to be greeted; on these terms they can treat me as they choose, and, if they wish, by Demeter! they can turn me into sausages and serve me up to the philosophers.

                                  classics.mit.edu/Aristopha...louds.html
                                  • "they can turn me into sausages and serve me up to the philosophers. "

                                    then u'd bee eating yerself matey, kuz U bee a philosipher it wood seam, philosiphising on spiritual koncepts and such........

                                    siriusly
                                    • and you as well my other ...tell me you are not a bold rascal................it don't take a compass to catch your draft...........
                                      • "and you as well my other ..."

                                        nope.....knot even klose mate

                                        "tell me you are not a bold rascal"

                                        eye yam N deed quite "bold"

                                        "it don't take a compass to catch your draft."

                                        didnt figure it wood........

                                        cheerz
                                        • con-fused? is it because we hold different views?? So you are not a consciousness born of stardust and water??? Not a sovereign natural phenomena????Not a unique perspective expressing one-self??? ?? I know you are no clone... so can you rule out the Oneness of Nature itself from which we flower....you penetrate me with lessons yet we are not close?
                                          ah, you think I am not fit to be a warrior, you see weakness in a smile and ignorance in a trusting demeanor...as you wish..............
                                          yew no mi knot................cheerz
                                          • "you see weakness in a smile and ignorance in a trusting demeanor..."

                                            know, eye dew knot sea weakness N A smile, nor ignorance N A trsting D meanor

                                            "yew no mi knot"

                                            on thee kontrare mate.....

                                            on thee kontrare

                                            eye may knot "know" U "personally", tho eye know thee mindset all 2 well....

                                            iz quite kommon with N men E "knew age" circles..........

                                            alot moor kommon than kommon scents and thats thee koncerning part

                                            nun thee less

                                            0n with thee show

                                            • <<eye may knot "know" U "personally", tho eye know thee mindset all 2 well.... >>
                                              WOW...you beat me to it...
                                              but thats just cuz I do know me...intimately...
                                              and I am in Old age particle..no wave...no particle ...
                                              depends on how you look at me......
                                              it's that quark thing a ma bob.....
                                              anyway cheerz...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    alan is very cool and I enjoyed reading lots of his stuff.

                    But saying, "However we do not normally feel that way because we have constructed in thought an abstract idea of our self."
                    can not exclude also saying, 'we have constructed in thought an abstract idea of the entire universe (or parts there of).

                    There is as much abstract / real / unreal / fill in your own personnel blank ways to describe what it is that is realized.

                    So yeah you are the entire universe and keeping that thought or any thought can get in the way of enjoying a pleasant day or
                    interfere with fighting for your life in a dangerous situation. Perhaps a real moment of breakthrough is to realize you are the universe,
                    and just as promptly forget about it, unless at that very moment it's worth a laugh, a smile, a quick reaction that avoids disaster,
                    a tear for a fallen friend and some courage and hope for new friends to do battle against every force that threatens any level of
                    existence you decide to defend.

                    I think what can sometimes transcend abstract thought is accepting the self or to decide freely and or with considerable help to change.
                    Everyone has a right to stay as they are or decide to change.
                    And some are gonna want to stop you from maybe staying as you are or changing the way you are to something different.
                    Is the entire universe big enough? Is a self too small?
            • Unsu...
               
              Oh boy... then you tried that back at you crap... while dragging your Grandfather AND heritage into it... Irish people were reknowned for their ego and violent behavior...

              It's just like you to say something like that... How about I send you ALL the links on tribe.net to everything you've ever said about someone else's ego? Oh, it goes back a long ways... not to mention the possibility you've had other accounts where you've done the same thing.

              Get over it. It's like you can't BREATHE without having to mention it...
  • Burroughs memorabilia on eBay:

    "Since William S. Burroughs is going on 12 years dead, it must be time to shake loose the last few dollars from the famed writer's corpse. Someone is selling Burroughs' cat-centric shopping lists from his last days in Lawrence on eBay for the low, low price of $495 and you can 'Buy it now.' Don't worry. The lists are 'authentic.'"

    "The auction description says:

    "Page 1: Items written by Burroughs -- 1. Cat Pans. 5. Limes & lemons. 6. Dry Cat Food. 7. Canned Cat food -- Mealtime, bits of beef -- salmon dinner. There are 4 items written on the back and none are by Burroughs.

    "It goes on for two more pages of waffles and Triscuits and vodka and Lipton tea bags. If Burroughs is out of your price range, I'll sell you my grocery lists for $100. You'll never know what'll show up on the list. Is this a week for Cascone's pasta sauce or budget-cutting Ragu? Best Choice chocolate chip cookies or Oreos? Cap'n Crunch or Apple Jacks? Yeah, not exactly the makings of a grown man, but I do love crunch berries. Hat tip to Boing Boing."
    blogs.pitch.com/plog/2009/...ded_som.php
  • Another bit of Burroughs trivia:

    When Burroughs was at Mexico City College in 1950, one of his professors was Robert Hayward Barlow

    When he was 13, Barlow began what turned into a lifelong correspondence and friendship with fantasy writer H.P. Lovecraft. After Lovecraft died, Barlow was his literary executor.

    H.P. Lovecraft
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._P._Lovecraft

    Barlow, a brilliant anthropologist and expert in ancient Mesoamerican myths and religion, took his own life just a few months after Burroughs killed his own wife Joan Vollmer in a drunken "William Tell" routine.

    One of Barlow's publications was a newsletter in the Nahuatl language called "Mexihkatl itonalama" which means "the Mexican's calendar."

    R.H. Barlow
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R.H._Barlow
    • Thanks! That fills in a missing link between two of my favorite authors. I'd never delved that much into Barlow....
      • "I'd never delved that much into Barlow...."

        Another brilliant gay artist, writer, and scholar who had a lifelong struggle against homophobia and small minds. His is a tragic story.

        Barlow's suicide appears to have been precipitated by molestation charges. His biography merits more investigation.