Here's another informative article on crystal skulls:

skepdic.com/crystalskull.html

"Few check (do the complete experiment) before they claim to know the truth."

Good luck getting permission (and equipment) to check those skulls yourself, Ozai. More power to you if you do.

"If its about 100 years ago, there wasnt such a new age hoo har as there is now"

You've got to be kidding, Elo. Ever hear of Madame Blavatsky? The Secret Doctrine?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_...t_Doctrine

www.theosociety.org/pasadena...sd-hp.htm

Here's a gem of estoerica from 1871, Sir Edward Bulwer-Lytton's "Vril: The Power of the Coming Race":

www.sacred-texts.com/atl/vril/index.htm

I think Vril must be the same thing as the power of the crystal skulls.

There's also "The Story of Atlantis" (1896) and "The Lost Lemuria" (1904), by W. Scott-Elliott

www.sacred-texts.com/atl/soa/index.htm

www.sacred-texts.com/atl/tll/index.htm

Oh, yes. Thre was plenty of woo-woo New Age hoo har 100 years ago. That's exactly what created the right context for the crystal skulls hoax. Its legacy lives on today.

The time is right for some new "ancient" objects to be discovered. Maybe in 2012...

> why aren't their any real indians rallying for these skulls? its all white people!!

for the same reason they fill up the Gurs's halls

they lost, no roots, they searching for a lost connection

in mexico, for example, people has lots of family, they poor, but never alone

here


lost of stuff, lost of cash

but no real family

no true friends

here in the usa, is all about me, me, me , me and more me

"and why aren't their any real indians rallying for these skulls? its all white people!! (or followers thereof!) no one notices the fine details... "

This is an excellent question (and an important fine detail). However, there are in fact "real Indians" who are rallying for these skulls. One of them is Hunbatz Men, a Yucatec Maya who spent a lot of time hanging out with hippies in the 1970s and has become a spokesperson for New Age mythology.

Indians aren't immune from becoming followers of white people's ways (as should be clear from the large numbers of Indians who have been successfully missionized into various Christian traditions).

It's important to note that the crystal skulls came into the consciousness of European collectors in the context of the late 19th century, when both spiritualism and racism were significant currents in Victorian worldviews. The high technical skill exhibited by these objects suggested to many that they couldn't possibly have been made with Native technology (as it turns out, they weren't), but must have come from a lost civilization, lost continent, or (more recently) outer space. All of this had a racist ideology at its core.

My theory about this--the short and simplified version--is that certain members of the Victorian upper crust saw a glimpse of the future in people like Frederick Douglass and Chief Joseph: They realized, to their horror, that someday people of color (and women of all colors) were going to be writing books, teaching in universities, and leading nations. It wasn't a future they wanted, so they did their best to foster mythologies about how civilization could only have been invented by white Europeans or other white people (such as the residents of imaginary places like Atlantis and Lemuria) and to do their best to undermine every effort by people of color to succeed intellectually and economically. This included inventing new and believable (to some) "histories" of imaginary pasts.

The story is actually fairly complex. Mixed in with Victorian racism was a certain degree of nationalism to redress past wrongs, such as Ignatius Donnelly's 1882 retelling of the Atlantis myth (with "scientific" support) in such a way that it bolstered the ethnic identity of Irish immigrants to the U.S., who themselves--although white--had themselves been subjected to vicious ethnic discrimination by people of English ancestry. (This has been revived in the rhetoric of Irish nationalist and Atlantis booster Michael Tsarion, who was born in Belfast.) At the same time that Donnelly was doing this in the U.S., Irish nationalism Annie Besant was promoting both spiritualism and feminism on the other side of the pond.

To bring this up to the present, as the likelihood of the reality of Atlantis and Lemuria (so popular among Victorian spiritualists) have diminished in the face of scientific knowledge such as theories of plate tectonics and high-tech detailed mapping and exploration of submarine topography, outer space has become the new Atlantis. The crystal skulls, which a century or more ago were implied to have come from lost continents, are now said to have been made or inspired by aliens. (Or perhaps by Mayas or Toltecs who were nonetheless instructed and/or inspired by aliens.) There is a lingering racism in there that still denies a 100% indigenous ingenuity, which is unfortunate. I think Indians know this, which may explain why the vast majority are not very enthusiastic about crystal skulls.

I'm guessing Indiana Jones is not very popular with Indians, except to the extent that he reinforces their own stereotypes of archaeologists as insensitive graverobbers who are out for fame, fortune, and adventure. However, that stereotype is based more on the self-styled bravado of people like F.A. Mitchell-Hedges, one of the "discoverers" of a crystal skull, than on what real archaeologists are really like today:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-hedges

Last one for Will...

kristaliina what do you make of this skull thing ? Im curious who and why it was made, but when i saw it it certainly seemed to resonate with a power to me, actuly i felt almost frighting, like it contained a power that was intense, but i accept this may have been partly in my head........

<<That's always struck me as a bit odd, considering how Maya civilization collapsed a thousand years ago and most Mayas today are desperately poor.

<< no comment on this anyone? >>


don’t forget the Mayans received a very big kick in the balls from the Spanish, but i for one dont think there civilization (the little i know if it ) was all good. But i do think they had a strong connection with the cosmos, a mysterious connection at that, like the Egyptians.

Just because a civilisation has good eyesight on the cosmic level does not mean they have great power over the 3D realm. Hell look at George Bush for that, he has lots of power on the 3D realm and zero cosmic eyesight !

One of the things that makes me most go for the 2012 argument, (though i DEFINATLY dont think its going to be an end of the world thing, but a key milestone in the changing of our consciousness, is that T Mckenna, the Mayans and the Galaxtic alignment are all happeing on that date, and Mckenna aparantly didnt know about the Mayan stuff at the time. That seems a kind of very very spooky coincidence.

as i say, the next 20 years is the crunch time for humanity, its not only the Mayan and Hopi saying this, but also people in suite and tie with Ivey League degrees, like Jeffry Sachs, who's resources and knowledge of global problems are probably second to non.

So much daft over-simplification, misrepresentation and lies being used as provocation!

No one has suggested that unless we all "change our consciousness to be more like the Mayas are imagined to have been, we're done for."
It is the Maya who have been warning, along with Hopi and many others from many tribes and cultures, a similar message. That we need to prepare for the changes at hand, that humanity can survive the changes through stopping arms dealing and wars, drugs, abuse of children and women, abuse of nature and theft of natural resources for profit.

Hunbatz Men is being seriously defamed in this thread. He is not just a Maya who hung out with some hippies, he was given alot of teachings by members of his family and others, from a child. He has been lecturing about the cycles, some Mayan esoteric teachings, calendars, symbolic and mantric information, sacred sites and structures, practices and traditions of the ancient Maya, etc. He has written valid information and is not some new age writer. To suggest he is is pure rubbish! Hunbatz can be seen at the councils of Mayan Elders and ceremonies in various areas, and he also helps foreign groups to journey in the Mayalands. He has been a key in bringing together large numbers of people to complete ceremonies of activation in important sites, and was the person who led a group of people to make the first circle of hands around the pyramid of Kukulkan at Chicchen Itza in '95 when the 9 Hell Cycles ended for the Yucatan Maya.
Hunbatz is a knowledgable and humble man who deserves more respect from small-time anthro-types. He has facilitated a mysteries school, a Mayan traditional community, conferences and initiations for now thousands of people. he knows, like many others that people return, sometimes after many lives to "do their work, again"

It's so funny when you hear very initiated (and keepers of tradition) native peoples and First Nations members when they tell you about what the anthro-types 'know'. Many have said to me something like "the anthropologists and archaeologists came and asked us questions about our culture and we told them anything to make them go away. They know almost nothing about us".

The assertion that "most Mayas today are desperately poor." is more of the same misrepresentation of reality. The Maya were subject to mass genocide by the Spanish so any suggestion that they are poor now because of their traditions and knowledge is more cheap nonsense.
Up to the point where the Americas were invaded there were still regular meetings of native peoples from all the Americas. Easy transport and communication has meant that many such meetings are being held on a regular basis and the writing and exposing the lies of so many archaeolo-gits and anthropooey-gits.
Such lies include the assertion that all native peoples of the Americas came from those who crossed from Siberia, about the Olmec having no metal and tools, about the Maya being focussed upon sacrifice and war, about the reasons for certain sites and ceremonies. And the lies are helping to create a situation in Mexico where traditional people cannot access their sites and do their ceremonies. How disgusting that INAH and other lying archaeological bodies are involved in depriving Maya and other Mexicans of their own history and culture!
And consistently traditional peoples have asked/demanded that museums and 'collections' return their artifacts, ceremonial objects, writings, etc, that were literally stolen by the imperialists/colonialists.
When we talk about 'poverty' it is important to remember that vast stores of Maya 'wealth' are being kept from them.
I know an ex-paymaster of INAH who told me that vast warehouses the size of aircraft hangars are full of 'found' artifacts from Mexican cultures. It's not the writers about the Mayan traditions who are the thieves - it's the archaeologists and their mates.
At least the writers mentioned are bring much worthy attention and introduction to people who have been desperately wronged, and are still being wronged today!

And plenty of the Elders acknowledge that much of the writing and research has helped to open peoples' minds and help the Maya and other tribes in their work to help activate and prepare large numbers of humanity (over the last 20 years) for the shift that is happening. But plenty folk are stuck in their 3-D cynical reality, full of fear and lacking humility. They don't get invited to the ceremonies for obvious reasons!

Anyone who actually 'knows' Jose Arguelles and John M J also knows that they have spent many years in Mexico and Guatemala and do actually know alot of traditional Elders and attend many meetings. Information that is important (like the release of the time of Harmonic Convergence, certain sites to visit, initiation and ceremony, etc) has been passed to western writers by the Maya and others. Anyone who knows Jose knows that he is not some wealthy man with all his "proceeds". And where does he suggest that humans are all "done for"? D'uh!

But the real point here is that the main comments come from ignorance and envy!
Just more fear-mongering folks, and not worth heeding!

<Deja vu?>

yes its like the bit at the end of the matrix, where neo finds out he is the 9th (or whatever number it is) version to reach that point, great civilizations have grown and fallen, do we have what it takes this time to trancsend the pattern ? I think 2012 is just the start of that question though, maybe.

sometimes no matter how deep you look at something there will always be an element of mystery.

And to add to the central idea of the whole 2012 thing that we have to change our consciousness; we have to change the way we are living. The change of consciousness happens on a metaphysical level, something that we can't perceive in a material world. However, the consequences of this change will eventually manifest in a physical world as well. This is a process, actually, a long process that may take up decades...But the change must be RADICAL.

And this is why some of the conspiracy theories have ground; the current chaos is more than good for the ruling financial elite. The bigger the chaos the more they can fish. The real shift is when we can realize our detachment from the material world-we don't need "energy" anymore to live.

"He is out trying to get converts to believe in Science as the only source of truth, just like any other religious leader."

I don't know how you got there from here, Ozai. I don't believe Science is the only source of truth, and I feel sorry for anyone who does.

Please don't put words in my mouth or slam me with your biased stereotypes. I won't do that to you.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethi...eciprocity

There is a difference between warning against gullibility and promoting an alternative truth. I'm warning against gullibility.

i feel like i missed something........i skip over threads that have al gore in the title :)

"Why else?"

Ever other person's opinion on the subject! We all walk a unique path.

Reason attempts to obliterate the 'Hero's journey' and replace the masses with a few heroes.

What has proof done for anyone except to create more segregation / fragmentation?

That is not to say that duality and linearity and reason do not have their place.

It's a question of origin. Not everyone starts from the same place?

The assumption of a common belief is profoundly arrogant and narcissitically subjective.

The idealism that Oneness means we all must think alike is what I am questioning.

The aspiration is called mental colonialism

It's also called Socialism and we all know how well that works.

Socialism is always reborn from refined, intellectual policies. Surprise!

Are you guiding others or fooling yourself? This is a question we all must ask.

"If there is something you do not like change your mind.
'but that does not mean the feelings can be changed' "

Everything is a feeling before it is a thought. Change your mind change the feeling.

Example, I choose to see my miserable childhood as a lesson rather than a punishment.

Once you believe this from the next down, trust me, you feel different.


"'yes, but if you know what you're doing, the amperage can be increased' flo vs force "

I have no idea what this means lol.
One sip, two deep breaths, four toe taps and hee haw to up the amp?

No voltage no amp!


"'naw, porn works. but of course not by itself; i used to post over at aphrodisiacs tribe but...i think most get the pix' "

Boo, the energy spent on porn is for others too!

It's drugs for the other head!

The greatest contribution you can give yourself and others....is yourself.


"'speak for yourself; i have experts here...well "

Experts who have perfected what? lol

thank you Ozai
thanks everybody
life is peachy